Marnz game / Roosevelt

[mice]

This is a game using the very good Marnzmod.

It can be found in the creation and customization forum.

I'm going to use version 1.8

It's big file but worth it IMO.

You can get it here
Marnzmod

In this thread I would like people to chip in with advice and try to help me win. (not pick up the save and tell me they won in 1775 domination).

I'm going to try a specialist economy inspired by this post;

Originally Posted by mikesonic

Excellent Mods! However, I have a feeling that SE is too strong in this mod!

With proper civic(such as private medic,rep,indepdent farm,private school...)&tech&wonder, a grass land farmed finally produces 6 food, which means 2 science specialist. That's 9*2 beaker(not to metioned the gold&culture from civ, and hammer if you have plato academy) , yet with a CE focused civic,a town can produce just about 12(?) commerce&1 hammer .I don't see the reason to run CE in this mod!

However, the AI still spam cottage, this make them easy to be defeated since their science output is too much less than the SE I used!

I've picked Roosevelt for the industrious trait mainly.

Spoiler:

UB is the mall still.

UU is now the minuteman, replacing a musket unit. One first strike, 30% withdraw chance. 9 str. I never used it before. Draftable I guess.

Spoiler:

and the F-15 eagle, an advanced fighter.

Here's the starting position

Spoiler:

Only one fur. Stink. That might mean good resource will pop up later. Plains hill , good.

I'm a "settle in place" kind of guy, but I'm open to ideas.

Marnz- heads, help me out here, and anyone else with an interest. Even the Head Marnz, bmarnz himself. That would be cool.

To open the save you just need to have version 1.8

No spoilers please in any comments.

I forgot to mention. The map is; Small/Fractal/Prince difficulty/Normal speed/Medium sea level/No tech brokering/No Vassals/No randoms.

[mice]

Here's a look at the tech tree.

Spoiler:

Not so different. Pyramids pushed back a bit to Mumification.

Dualism and Ritualism bringing in early religions, Zoroastrianism and Druidism, while Mumification founds Amon-Ra.

ritualism also allows the animism (religous) civic which is good.

Spoiler:

+10% commerce in capital +10% culture all round. I'll still build Stonehenge if I can because 10% of zero is zero.

then there is herbalism for health, allowed with improved farming (sounds good for an SE). +1 health all round +1 happy with granary.

Spoiler:

Then Heritage ,an Education civic, is allowed with Oral Tradition.

Spoiler:

More culture and +2 happy from Libraries

and later, Code of Laws gives Judicial, which is powerful.

Spoiler:

-25% cost from number of cities. So this with courts will mean good expansion possibility.

[mice]

Not too many hits on this thread. Looks like I might have to play it out all by myself.

Settled in place, but it turned out to be a poor location because it blocked off a two fish spot as I saw later. Also I can't work the sea tiles with a lighthouse! May have to shift the capital later.Got a wheat though, and the hills are good.

Spoiler:

Set to build a warrior to grow to pop 2, then worker.

Tech set to mining. As Roose I have Agriculture and Fishing. Fishing is wasted on this start.

Early huts give a scout

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First neighbor met, the Pirate Boss

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He's annoyed. Financial , Aggressive , and boxing me in . Hmm... I see a pattern here. Next tech will be Bronze working I think.

Second neighbor met. MacDonald of Canada.

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Any Canadians out there? Was this guy reasonable or should he be on my list of things to do?

The lay of the land. Certainly boxed in. There is quite poor land for me , even if I attack the pirates.

Spoiler:

Bronze working in, with a worker irrigating the wheat, I'll switch to a settler in washington.

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Gettable.

After settling that I will head for a Marnz feature, Alchemy

Spoiler:

It allows the battering ram, which makes an attack opportunity between axe rush and catapults.

First city placement is here.

Spoiler:

Getting the copper and a fish.

Then another city I think, and I like to get Stonehenge if possible. Then axes/battering rams to take out the Pirates.

[50_dollar_bag]

Hi Mice love to chip in with some deep strategical/tactical thinking but all I can offer at the moment is say that I'd settle 1 North of the forested plains hill where your warrior is now, that'll get wheat/copper/fish.

Look's like a fun mod, but I get annoyed at how turns seem longer on heavily modded games.

[mice]

Originally Posted by 50_dollar_bag

Hi Mice love to chip in with some deep strategical/tactical thinking but all I can offer at the moment is say that I'd settle 1 North of the forested plains hill where your warrior is now, that'll get wheat/copper/fish.

Wow, how did I miss that? Sheesh . You're right. I'll settle there.

No worries about chipping in. This is just a "pure fun" game. Hopefully there'll be a few twists and turns.

Originally Posted by 50_dollar_bag

Look's like a fun mod, but I get annoyed at how turns seem longer on heavily modded games.

I think Marnz has got it pretty right with this one. It feels somewhere between Normal and Epic speeds.

[Cabledawg]

thisll be an interesting lurk. Ive never played this mod. When you post screenies of a tech youre researching or one that you got, could you scroll over the tech so it shows what it gives you, then post that screenie?

[pawelo]

I'm lurking too.
Aside from BUG, I never played a real MOD on Civ IV before.
In your opinion, what are the upsides of this one, compared to MODs like Total Realism or Rhye's and Fall ? All techs and civics (and ressources, as I have seen it on your map) don't they make the game more complex to play and more time consumming ? Is it balanced ?

Sorry about all these questions, I'm pretty curious about how a game goes so will stick here for future developments
Thanks for presenting this mod in a game-report style.

[mice]

Cabledawg, will do .

Pawelo , often mods seem to throw loads of units and civics and buildings into the game. Marnzmod I think plays out in a similar way to a standard game in terms of tempo and the final victories, even though it has a lot of new stuff. However, I'm not looking for a game that is really similar to the core game because we have the core game for that.

It adds possibilites to manage civics to your advantage without it being a big confusing mess. I usually cottage up, so this time I'm trying to go specialists just to see how the civics can be used.

The big plus for me is that the early game can be more complex. In this game however I'm just doing early aggression.

One problem could be that it's too easy to get happiness. bmarnz is working on this.


Is it balanced? I think at Monarch it would be well balanced.
The difficulty in this game might be a bit low, but on the other hand the late game could get quite hard . We will see.

[pawelo]

Thanks for your answers mice. I'll lurk with interest to see how your game progresses.

I really search to spice up the standard game a little bit - we always tend to stick to similar gameplay, I'd love to shake this up with some new inputs

[mice]

Settled the spot that 50_dollar pointed out. Stonehenge started, and teching to Alchemy for the battering rams.

Salt pops up near Washington in the mine, not revealed by a tech, just lucky. It adds health to the whole empire , and one more health with Granary.

Stonehenge in

Spoiler:

Alchemy in,

Spoiler:

next tech is Pottery for a cottage or two and the Pottery Kiln building which gives 1 commerce,hammer and culture, although building them will come behind axes and rams.

Tech notes as promised

Spoiler:

Shinto founded far off. Also Buddhism and Zoroastrianism exist. I'm not planning a religious game, but might go that way later if I catch a shrine, and use the inquisitor units to exterminate other religions.

Tech after Pottery is heading for Improved farming with Animism and Herbalism civics in my sights.

Clay pops up with the Pottery tech, giving extra hammers if in a BFC, and allowing the Pottery Kiln building.

Things are cooking now with copper hooked and axes coming.

Long story short, I declare on the Pirates with 6 axes and some rams.

Spoiler:

Port Royal is discovered ,defended by two dopey looking archers. He has no metal it seems.

Spoiler:

Port Royal falls after the rams take out the defences. The second city is Barataria,

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...and it has no show either. The Pirates only managed two cities, so they are out of play now.

These guys turn up

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MacDonald is out expanding me, leader in score. I'm last even after that expansion. Need some infra.

Here is the new land.

Spoiler:

I have two settlers built and ready to settle. Any suggestions ? I want to push towards Canada, without getting behind in tech.

Port Royal has tin which is good. It allows the pewter forge which gives; 1 unhealthy, 2 hammer,2commerce,2 culture. Worth building.

That and pottery Kilns will be good infra builds even before libraries for the SE. Prophet due soon from Stonehenge, Oracle started in Washington.If I get it I'll go for Alpha, or Aesthetics, or Mathematics (for Plato's academy - can make 3 scientists and 1 hammer per scientist. Edit ; Plato's academy needs alphabet too)

Other resources around are cotton ; 1 commerce 1 happy . Olives, 1 commerce , 1 happy after Monarchy , and 1 health with grocer.

The riverside temple gives nice commerce.

Spoiler:

Just writing this out I can see a lot of commerce. I'm not sure specialists are the way to go. Science modifiers with all the commerce could be better. hmm ..

[pawelo]

Given the plans of closing MacDonald, I would go for marble/cows and spices/cotton/fish. A better spot would be the cow/fish on the southern shore, but can be claimed later.

I start to love this MOD. How long have you been playing it mice ? Is it BUG-compatible (seen the GP-bar on your screenie) ?

[Killroyan]

This really looks nice. I hope you can give some insights in all the buildings and techs. Very interesting mod and the minutemen are just plain great. This is a musketman I would use a lot. Keep it up.

[mice]

Originally Posted by pawelo

I start to love this MOD. How long have you been playing it mice ? Is it BUG-compatible (seen the GP-bar on your screenie) ?

It includes BUG, which has gone beyond good to great IMO.

I dont know if it's BUG but now you can see what you could whip in a city, and what overflow you would get if you did. Really clever feature.

I played two games before this one so I'm only just learning the stuff.

City sites you mentioned are what I thought too. I'll keep borders closed to Canada for a while.

Originally Posted by Killroyan

This really looks nice. I hope you can give some insights in all the buildings and techs.

There's a lot to explore!

Just realized I forgot the save. sorry about that. It's in the previous post.

[mice]

AH in , same tech as the core game, and no horses anywhere. I need to scout out the AI. Writing is next (again no differences with this tech to the core game)

Prophet arrives. I settle him in Washington for production and hammers, as I can't see a candidate for a cottage city to settle him in.

A look at Washington

Spoiler:

New city sites.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

A look at the overflow/whip feature

Spoiler:

We are happy capped at 4 or 5. This is set to rise sharply as Calendar and Monarchy boost the resources, and with courts in the Judicial civic.

Oracle in 5 Writing in 6. I hope now to grab Code of Laws for Confu and the courthouse (which give 2 a happy with the Judicial civic.)

OK Oracle delivers. CoL. and Confu .

Spoiler:

This calls for a change of civics. Judicial. -25% cost of number of cities. Court gives +1 happy.

Spoiler:

Also switch to Caste system.

So civics are ; Judicial , Caste (same) , Animism ( 10% comm in capital, 10% culture in all cities) and Herbalism (+1 health,+1 happy from granary.)

So these civics with granary and court give good bonuses. Add to that the health from salt, and then Pewter forges and Pottery Kilns, you have a good workable empire with a reasonable happy cap without resorting to Hereditary rule.

To get the Pewter forge and Pottery Kiln buildabe I need to hook up Clay and Tin. We have both now.

So building phase coming up, and scouting.

small bug, the new religion icons are showing up as corporations.

20 -30 turns or so later, we have some infra and a look at the land. Korea is Buddhist while Canada and China are Shinto. Awkward as I'd like to hit Canada next, but Korea is the odd man out religionwise. (I'm no state rel)

Here's an overveiw.

Spoiler:

Looking at it it seems that korea is not so far away geographically. I could attack Korea and stay buddies with the Shinto block - Canada and China.

[pawelo]

Nice work out until now.

Are you planning setting up some diplo tweaks between the Shinto block and Korea - making Wang the Public Enemy Number One ?

Of course Canada would be a fine target, but backed by Mao it can be pretty tricky. The latter really participates in wars for buddies (at least in my games). I see Quebec was settled on the spot I was foreseeing for you civ - tough luck.

As for the whip/overflow feature, it has been integrated in one of the latest BUG releases. It is a huge benefit, especially in the early game when I oftet forget to whip.

Keep this one going mice, I really look forward to what this MOD really offers in terms of additional features.

[mice]

Yes the whip overflow feature really is great. I can see myself doing an entire game trying to utilize it better, maybe as Monty with altar.

I'm going to side with the Shintos and take on Wang. I could see Canada becoming strong, but that's OK as that means a big war. The map is small so this is it. No more AIs to come.

Update, to around 1000 AD

Alphabet in

Spoiler:

It allows Plato's with Mathematics. I think I'll build it.

Mathematics in, Plato's started.

Masonry arrives late. It allows the Ishtar gate Wonder which alows all legal civics. You could do an early Free speech with it for a culture victory. But this wonder is long gone. It allows Leaning tower of Pisa for 100% GPP

Mao asks me to cut ties with Korea. I take sides and agree to it. Risky as Wang could DoW me. I'm building and very little army right now.

Iron pops up and I settle near it with my last city for a while

Happiness is at 8, due to courts and granaries. The capital has less happy because ,out of habit, I didnt build a court there.



The religion of Amon-Ra founded. Hellenism comes soon after. Both in Canada. He might be a culture bunny.


Shinto Arrives and I opt for it, taking on an appeasing attiude with Canada and China. I'd rather push them round, but I want to build for a while.

Korea is the enemy now.

Clay is finally quarried (after Masonry) to allow the pottery kiln.

Spoiler:

Power graph shows I've been building.

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Mao wants a simple trade.

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MacDonald has teched different things. No cause for alarm the moment.

As a surprise I pick up Judaism.

Spoiler:

Macdonald with some more offers. Seems OK to me.

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Monarchy in, allows Hereditary rule, but I'm going to pass as happy is OK. Also allows the olive press to be worked.

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Port royal, happy from olives and fur, than the building happys, court and granary.

I get advanced sailing, but its not really a water map.



AdvSailing allows the shipyard which gives +2 XP to ships. BTW I built an archery range in New York for archer supply. They get +2 XP too making good CG archers for the Korea border.

Adv Sailing also reveals pearls.

Spoiler:

but these are out of my BFC. Pearls give extra commerce and happy.

Barter Economy is available now, but it is +15% maintenance for distance, and +15 Commerce.

Spoiler:

Seems unsuitable. Would work for close to capital cities with good commerce. My empire is going to be far flung with little commerce.

Plato's built (but no video) +1 hammer per scientist.

Oral tradition finally in, allows Heritage civic in the Education civic category. +2 Happy from library. So Libraries and scientists all round.

Spoiler:

I might go back to slavery for these buildings. The other Education civics allow a mix of things ,science boosts, free specialists,extra GG points...

Parthenon started but it's hard to see a GP farm.

Prophet turns up in the capital. I send him to Port Royal to build the Jewish shrine.

Spoiler:

I've decided I will go religious against the Shinto block later on. It will probably be too late for the Religious victory, and in fact, Mac Donald might win that. Then there's the new inquisitor unit that removes your non-state religions from other cities, even the AI's.

Building health buildings in Washington as it can grow to a good size soon. It can get the lighthouse so that's good.

Next tech is construction. not for the catapults but for the wonders. Underground Tomb gives -75% war wariness.

Spoiler:

Thats better than statue of Zeus. Also I can build flavian ampitheatre.

Spoiler:

It gives free Shock to melee there and +2 Engineer GPP for an engineer(mining inc) there I hope.. Getting into the war heavy features of this mod now. Mwu ha ha.

The veiw from Canada. Quite a nice little world.

[Darth Meanie]

This game is slow... it is past 1000 AD and no birth of christ?

[mice]

Originally Posted by Darth Meanie

This game is slow... it is past 1000 AD and no birth of christ?

No sure what you mean ... The early game is full of things that make it more complex. I see this a positive.

No theology? Well no, and it's a ways off for me. Next phase after building will be getting the mod feature's military buildings that boost XP, and then putting an army together for Wang.

I'd say Marnz is trying to get game balance first,(successfully IMO) and the clock might be out of wack a bit, but not too serious.

[pawelo]

I have started first 100 turns of my Marnz game and, basically, I'm amazed with the richness of the whole.

I wonder if it wouldn't be nice to offer Marnz MOD with a SG

One small drawback - this MOD completely unbalances the early rush. With the multiplicity of early techs and an easy access to BW (without any additional tech), you can pretty nicely sweep 2-3 civilizations with several axes in the early game (especially the spiritual / creative ones, not favouring military). It's up to the player to discipline oneself not to use this tactic to such an extent.

I agree with you mice - the fact that Theo isn't found in 1000 AD isn't that much an issue given the amazing early game possibilities. Even in BTS, I see more ofter Theo founded around 500AD than before 0AD as it ought to be. And try to see Islam founded (below Emperor) at the exact date (around 650AD) or before

[mice]

Originally Posted by pawelo

I have started first 100 turns of my Marnz game and, basically, I'm amazed with the richness of the whole.

I wonder if it wouldn't be nice to offer Marnz MOD with a SG

One small drawback - this MOD completely unbalances the early rush. With the multiplicity of early techs and an easy access to BW (without any additional tech), you can pretty nicely sweep 2-3 civilizations with several axes in the early game (especially the spiritual / creative ones, not favouring military). It's up to the player to discipline oneself not to use this tactic to such an extent.

Yes I agree with you on that. It's easy to dominate early on. On the other hand you still have to pay for those cities. There is more commerce early on, but not so much more.

I think Prince is too easy. Monarch should be better.

I play it for the richness that you mentioned, not so much hardcore strategy.

I'm quite keen to try a religious or cultural victory.

Update coming soon as I can't stop playing this one.