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Old Jan 28, 2008, 08:09 PM   #1
Sullla
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LOL RBTS5 - Multiple Personality Disorder

It's been too long since we ran a game under the Realms Beyond the Sword moniker. Too long...

Civ/Leader: See below
Map: Big and Small
Size: Standard
Snaky Continents, Low sea level
Speed: Epic
Difficulty: Emperor
Other: Choose Religions, No Vassal States

The basic premise is that we start by picking a civ and leader at Random. After every complete trip through the roster, we then use Worldbuilder tools to change to ANOTHER random new leader and civ, including all new traits, unique units, and unique buildings! This causes some bizarre side effects:

* All unique units and unique buildings from the previous civ before the swap still remain. However, you can no longer build new ones.

* You inherit everything already produced by the "old" civ, but otherwise it's like you're an entirely new civilization. That means Great Person points drop to 0 in all cities. Ditto for the Great General points.

* All research progress invested in the current tech disappears, although all techs learned so far are still present. Production in all cities also drops back to zero on all builds (it's like starting at 0 shields again on everything). This could make wonder construction very "interesting"! In addition, all units get to move again, even if they previously moved on the same turn! (We will avoid abusing this feature by simply ending their turn.)

* All Espionage also resets back to zero. Not only this, the relations modifiers with each AI also reset!

So this is going to get very silly in a hurry.

Roster
Sullla
TheArchduke
sunrise089
Swiss Pauli
Dantski

Wish us luck! This should be fun.

Civ swaps so far:

Pacal of the Spanish (Expansive/Financial)
Peter of the Zulus (Expansive/Philosophical)
Ramesses of Portugal (Industrious/Spiritual)
Frederick of the Khmer (Organized/Philosophical)
Wang Kon of the Romans (Fiancial/Protective)
Huayna Capac of the Vikings (Financial/Industrious)
Napoleon of the Germans (Charismatic/Organized)
Stalin of the Japanese (Aggressive/Industrious)
Churchill of the Chinese (Charismatic/Protective)
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Last edited by Sullla; Apr 03, 2008 at 05:27 PM.
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Old Jan 28, 2008, 08:16 PM   #2
Sullla
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Off to a Flying Start

For our first leader/civ combo, I randomly draw Pacal (Expansive/Financial) and Spain. Uhh, interesting... Well, let's get started!



4000BC (0) Wow, now this is a tough call on the start. Look at the position:



Ordinarily, I'd simply plan on the starting location without thinking about it. But note the bizarre attibutes we've been handed by fate here. Our civ is Spain, meaning that we start with Fishing and Mysticism in techs. (Remember the "Spain on a lake" from the Cuban Isolationists succession game?) However, we are NOT Isabella but Pacal - that means we're Financial as well. We're Spain on a lake PLUS Financial!!! It's the perfect storm to go chasing for religion in all the right places.

I can't sit and wait 8 turns for borders to expand and pick up one of those clams. We need to work one of them right out of the gate! That means moving east or north. Heading east will grab us two more hill tiles, while north just adds more water. East it is!

Madrid founded in 3975:



We pop 48g from the hut. Research is set to Meditation, production to a work boat. I don't know much about Pacal, but as Spain, we must seek religion!

3775BC (9) Borders expand at Madrid. The border expansion has trapped a barb panther on the tiny land area to our south! Otherwise exploring.

3725BC (11) Meet a Tokugawa scout to the north. That's not the worst news; Toku is such a pariah at this game, he's often easy to isolate diplomatically and eliminate later on. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

3650BC (14) We discover Meditation first and get to pick a religion!



Playing as Spain here, naturally I must select the religion of the crusader queen Isabella: Christianity. Now, what next? We're still growing slowly, building a work boat at one shield per turn. The sensible thing to do would be to start a worker and research Agriculture, or towards Bronze Working to cut down those trees.

Instead, Pacal channels his inner Isabella. "I am Spain on a Lake PLUS Financial! I must chase MORE RELIGION!!!"

3550BC (18) Madrid at size 2, pursuing the holy creed:



15 beakers/turn this early in the game is pretty insane. I don't think I've ever seen that before!

3450BC (22) I've found Toku, he's to the east about 3 city-lenths away. We may be on a small continent (?) with him. He won't last if that's the case, although Aggressive/Protective is a nasty defensive combo.

3325BC (27) We discover Polytheism, also first! Time to pick another religion:



I must take the other religion associated with Spain, the Islamic faith of the Moors. What's next? Pacal is tackled by one of his advisors before he can begin screaming about founding more religions. I opt to go for Agriculture, for our corn resource, with the obvious implication of Mining/Bronze Working next. I also reconfigure Madrid to emphasize shields, instead of commerce. Work boat now due in 4 turns (instead of 19) at break-even food, although research time for the tech drops from 9 turns to 14.

3250BC (30) Madrid's borders expand, as my turnset comes to a close:



We've got a workboat due next turn, and a worker seems like the clear next call (or do we wait until growing to size 3 while building a second work boat? Thoughts?) Red dot looks like a possible site for our second city, with white dot a long-term filler city. We can probably wait until the next turnset to discuss dotmaps and city locations.

I got a little silly with religion on this first turnset, but we're not in THAT bad shape. Happiness from religion is never a bad thing on Emperor, plus as an Expansive civ (for now, anyway!) building a worker at a larger size will knock in an extra shield each turn. In case you couldn't tell, I had a lot of fun with the opening, and isn't that what matters most?

Sullla
TheArchduke <<< UP NOW
sunrise089 <<< on deck
Swiss Pauli
Dantski

I played 30 to get us started. We should probably have Archduke and sunrise play 20 each, then 15 from Swiss Pauli and Dantski, then 10 each after that. (I'd rather keep the turnsets relatively short here in the early going so we can cycle through more civs!)

http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ4/SG...S5-BC-3250.zip
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Last edited by Sullla; Mar 07, 2008 at 07:15 AM.
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Old Jan 28, 2008, 11:41 PM   #3
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Checking in.

Worker next seems appropriate. Red dot also seems like a good commerce city. We'll probably want to place a city to work the pigs and floodplain tile as well.

Snaky continents is a new setting for me, so that should be fun. I'll also be looking forward to learning about the power of TWO religions discovered before our first worker tech
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 01:53 AM   #4
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Checking in, got the save and I already played it. An uneventful turnset as I just wait for the worker to finish and a 2nd workboat going, so I hope noone minds me going ahead already.

Ah, letīs see, Emperor and 2 religions already. Thatīs nice.

On the next turn the workboat finishes and we go with a worker next. Together with expansive, the clams and the plains hill it will take 13 turns to finish him.

Whilst waiting for the worker to finish, my warrior explores south and across a small bridge there is another landmass. Unluckily our warrior gets caught between lions and running from them and wounded encounters a panther and a bear.

After the worker, I change to working the clams and the plains hill and get another workboat out. I stop after 20 turns as the city hits size 3.


Not too much to report as I couldnīt pull such a great move with the 2 religions. Here am I hoping for more thrilling turnsets. I agree, a warrior and then a settler next after the workboat finishes.
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 02:32 AM   #5
Swiss Pauli
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Worker next for me. Research: finish Agri then Mining => BW as there's quite a lot of forest to chop in Madrid. Build another WB, a warrior, then a settler.
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 03:25 AM   #6
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Lurkers comment:

Fear the nine-headed hydra!
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 04:59 AM   #7
LKendter
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lurker's comment:
I am curious why you had to pick your religion. What setting causes this? I've never seen it in any of my games.

PS - If you want I will suggest a good shrink for your leader
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 05:30 AM   #8
Akuma-sama
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Lurker's comment: The "Select religion" feature must be switched on. This is BTS, after all.

As for the game, sounds like this is going to be crazy! The biggest problem will probably be that you'll be limited to techs you can learn in at least 10 turns, along with the wasted overflow... don't expect a tech lead despite that Christlam capital you just scored...!
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 05:37 AM   #9
Swiss Pauli
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Solid progress so far. Pity about the warrior, but such are Emperor animals. Nice to see we have a pet panther, trapped to the south of Madrid
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 07:03 AM   #10
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I am curious why you had to pick your religion. What setting causes this? I've never seen it in any of my games.
i believe if u turn on pick religion u get it

and i will be following this game sounds cool
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 08:07 AM   #11
Sullla
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Well, I HAD an elaborate write-up on dotmapping typed here, and then when I went to upload the file, I clicked on the "Galactic Civ 2" ad that was about 1 millimeter away, which caused the forum to eat my post. Here's the map anyway:



Red dot would grab fish, cows, and (eventually) rice, as well as serve as a canal city and deny Toku access to the south (which could be a lot of land, potentially). The downside is the far distance, and the fact that it would be rather weak for some time to come. We could potentially move it one tile north to get the cows in play immediately, although that would end its canal function.

Yellow is the old red dot, which would now have secondary priority. Green claims pigs and wheat, but little else. Might have to be moved depending on what's in the sea up there. Purple is wishful thinking at this point; I added it anyway for completion's sake. White may have to be moved depending on what's in the ocean up there. Black is kindly being preserved by our pet panthers.

Alternative thoughts? I was extremely pleased with how Archduke played his turnset (sorry you didn't have a lot to do!)
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 08:55 AM   #12
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If we go with red dot first, then I'd move it 1N. Canal cities sound cool, but rarely deliver much value-add in reality. With the current dotmap, I think we can go Yellow then Red (in fairly quick succession): Toku will go for the fish/oasis on 'our' side and I expect he'll have some decent sites to his east, too.

@Sullla - yellow dot has gone wrong: you've given it an extra row to the North

Last edited by Swiss Pauli; Jan 29, 2008 at 08:56 AM. Reason: lolmap
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 08:56 AM   #13
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Finally, another RB game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunrise089 View Post
I'll also be looking forward to learning about the power of TWO religions discovered before our first worker tech
You're just lucky your first worker tech wasn't Masonry.

e: LK, the "Choose Religions" option is in Single Player -> Custom Game, if you didn't guess.
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 08:59 AM   #14
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Maoi in red dot for 12 sea-tiles (+2ocean's) !!!
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 09:57 AM   #15
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lurker's comment: Ooooh, stuck on a continent with Toku, interesting
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 10:02 AM   #16
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I wouldn't prioritize red dot so much. Toku can just sail past us to the south so I'd concerntrate more on our own growth than his right now.

Yellow certainly looks like the next move (did we get free missionaries from taking Christianity and Islam?).
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 11:03 AM   #17
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lurker's comment: Should be a fun game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullla View Post
After every complete trip through the roster, we then use Worldbuilder tools to change to ANOTHER random new leader and civ, including all new traits, unique units, and unique buildings! This causes some bizarre side effects:
There might be another side effect that you didn't list. I say might, because I don't know if the bug has been fixed or not. Used to, any unfounded religions would be randomly passed out after using Worldbuilder. It would do this even though it was still set to be an ancient start. Hopefully 3.13 fixed it, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullla View Post
We could potentially move it [red dot] one tile north to get the cows in play immediately, although that would end its canal function.
Don't forget that forts can act as canals in BTS.
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 02:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Akuma-sama View Post
Lurker's comment: The "Select religion" feature must be switched on. This is BTS, after all.

As for the game, sounds like this is going to be crazy! The biggest problem will probably be that you'll be limited to techs you can learn in at least 10 turns, along with the wasted overflow... don't expect a tech lead despite that Christlam capital you just scored...!
We're only doing the big swap every 50 turns, so unless we select Fusion as our next tech, we should be OK

@Danski - I bet the free missionaries are still tied to Theology, Code of Laws, Divine Right, and Philosophy.

@Team - I think Yellow Dot is the best immediate move. I also support Sullla's original placement for Red Dot - in spite of the Fort-Canal thing (which I dislike). As long as we go Yellow next, why add in unnecessary overlap just to get cows in play...we can always work boat the fish first and whip a cultural building.

Got it - but I won't play before tomorrow.
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 03:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Sullla View Post
I can't sit and wait 8 turns for borders to expand and pick up one of those clams. We need to work one of them right out of the gate! That means moving east or north. Heading east will grab us two more hill tiles, while north just adds more water. East it is!
This wouldn't be an SG without somebody piping up with observations. I'm wondering why you moved. You said you wanted to work the non-netted claims. Lets look at the options:
  • move, lose 1 turn, work non-netted claims for 7 turns, impact
    • 28 food (7 x 4)
    • 7 hammers (7 x 1)
    • 84 beakers (7 x 12)
  • don't move, settle and work the water for 8 turns, impact
    • 24 food (8 x 3)
    • 8 hammers (8 x 1)
    • 96 beakers (8 x 12)

I'm assuming that you don't grow in either scenario. It seems like a dud trade off, 4 extra food for 12 beakers.

Anyway - I'll lurker quietly from now on ...
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Old Jan 29, 2008, 06:42 PM   #20
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lurking:
sorry for yet another comment, aren't you supposed to swap your nationality now as 50 turns have passed? Or does this only apply after your first round of play (means 100 turns)
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