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Old Mar 15, 2008, 07:07 AM   #21
Narn
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just thought i'd add that after all these years i'm still disappointed with moo3

good luck with your mod %=)
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Old Mar 15, 2008, 07:47 AM   #22
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I did a quick test on this and I get numerous xml errors (as expected); perhaps as a result of stripping the xml (cleaning up the files by removing xml entries).

Based on this, I suggest reworking the mod--basically from scratch--on a fresh set of Final Frontier files. You do have much of the xml work already present, so time is spent mostly on "copy & paste" fixes and I believe many of the xml additions can be done in separate xml files to avoid cluttering and making subsequent xml changes easier.

You may find it annoying having, for example, the Final Frontier leaders available, but I'd much prefer this to getting errors. The issue is temporary and at some point these Final Frontier references should be removed, of course.
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Old Mar 15, 2008, 04:25 PM   #23
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sounds great! I kinda miss civ2 MoO mod, it was simply awesome.
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Old Mar 15, 2008, 06:42 PM   #24
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I still occasionally play Moo2! It is definitely one of my all time favorite games. I will definitely be watching the development of this mod!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEELEN View Post

- no UUs or UBs as of yet (Stealth ship might be Darlok UU; might be available to other races on a much later advance - as it's currently available way early to all races) Official request posted
- Traits missiing or not yet implemented for some of the Leaders (could also use some additional LHs as some are just doubles with a different name)
I would have to concur with OrionVeteran. You should really do a complete MOO2 conversion before adding any new features. This means no UBs. There are no UBs in MOO2. After the conversion is complete, this might be an interesting addition.

As far as implementing the Darlok stealth. This is not really a UU. (There really are no UUs in MOO2, or perhaps one could say that every ship is a UU). It is a racial trait implemented as a ship technology which applies to all Darlok ships. A good way to implement this stealth attribute in Civ4 would by as a unit upgrade (like orcs in FFH2) that would be available to Darloks immediately (each Darlok unit would automatically start with this upgrade), but could be researched later by other civs.

One of my favorite aspects of MOO2 is the ability to customize the race. This could be implemented in Civ4 by similarly to the CivCustomizer (from Dale's Combat Mod).

Hope this helps, and good luck!
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Old Mar 15, 2008, 09:39 PM   #25
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Looks interesting TAFKAJ.

If you need any help for art just ask.
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Old Mar 16, 2008, 05:53 AM   #26
JEELEN
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Thumbs up

First off: thx for all of your response!

@Narn: I agree & thx!

@Rubin: I'll address the XML/load error messages starting Monday.

@darkyxinhow: Thx & I agree!.

@Thalioden: Thank you. First thing on my list is to see if I can fix the load errors on startup. As for implementing new features: I just aren't ready for that. And I know MOO2 doesn't have UUs or UBs: I was just bouncing off some ideas on how to introduce something of the different racial abilities in the mod and the Stealth ship is ofcourse an obvious one. (BTW, I like your idea on that one!)

As for combining with another mod: it's currently beyond my abilities (I do scenarios, mostly), so unless someone volunteers for the job, it'll have to wait. As both you and OrionVeteran said: conversion comes first.

@dutchking: I hope that you know what you're offering here! Basically the only MOO2-style are present right now are the Leaderheads (of which some are still doubles). Besides that, all ships/units use Final Frontier models - which is fine for now, but preferably they should all be replaced by MOO2-style units. Also, though the names of all buildings have been "orionized", so to speak, the icons have not.

For examples for MOO2-style art there are leaders featured at:
http:\\www.gamespot.com/features/moo2/races.html
or some ship graphics at:
http:\\www.gamespot.com/features/moo2/combat.html
or check what's in the MOO2jr scenario in the 1st post (this includes only Civ2 graphics, but is more complete. I can upload or send you just the icons from the file if you want).
__________________________________
I'll report back when I have more news!
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MOD MOO2Civ SCENARIOS 1250 BC for BtS/1250 BC for HitM 2.01/1000 BC for BtS/1000 BC for CIV Gold BtS/600 BC for BtS/600 BC for CIV Gold BtS/300 BC for BtS/300 BC for CIV Gold 5.2/50 AD for BtS/750 AD for BtS/750 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1000 AD for SevoMod/1066 AD for BtS/1066 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1066 AD for Thomas' War/1066 AD for Amra BtS/The Crusades !/The Crusades! for CIV Gold BtS/The Crusades! for Esnaz's Mod/1600 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1790 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1862 AD for CIV Gold BtS/Star Trek scenarios MAPS Amra 18 civs BtS/Random Religions 18 civs BtS/RoM 2.3 Huge Earth 18 civs/Thomas' War 2.8 Huge Earth 18 civs/HitM 2.01 Huge Earth 18 civs/GEM 5.3 Ancient 26 civs/Map pack for Chiyu's Extra mod

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Old Mar 17, 2008, 03:59 AM   #27
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Exclamation Error messages on loading

As those who've tried the mod will have noticed there are multiple XML-error messages appearing on start up. (Though these do not affect anything really, I still think they're annoying.) I've managed to locate the specific XML files causing these messages, but am unsure on how to proceed.

These are the affected XML files:

1) CIV4BuildingInfos.xml (in the Buildings folder);

the lines containing "TRAIT_BROTHERHOOD", "TRAIT_ASTROTECH" etc. should be fixed. As BROTHERHOOD, ASTROTECH, etc are just non-present civs, they might simply be replaced by civs actually present.

2) CIV4DiplomacyInfos.xml (in the Gameinfo folder);

the lines containing "LEADER_RAUL_COLOMBO" a.o. leaders should be fixed.

3) CIV4TerrainPlaneInfos.xml (in the Misc folder);

line 11 and 19 need to be fixed.

The 1st 2 may simply be fixed by replacing civnames/leadernames by the lines actually present (as I don't know what the effect will be if I do this, I'm somewhat hesitant to actually do this); the 3rd one is a problem as I don't know what I should do to fix it.

Any suggestions?
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MOD MOO2Civ SCENARIOS 1250 BC for BtS/1250 BC for HitM 2.01/1000 BC for BtS/1000 BC for CIV Gold BtS/600 BC for BtS/600 BC for CIV Gold BtS/300 BC for BtS/300 BC for CIV Gold 5.2/50 AD for BtS/750 AD for BtS/750 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1000 AD for SevoMod/1066 AD for BtS/1066 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1066 AD for Thomas' War/1066 AD for Amra BtS/The Crusades !/The Crusades! for CIV Gold BtS/The Crusades! for Esnaz's Mod/1600 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1790 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1862 AD for CIV Gold BtS/Star Trek scenarios MAPS Amra 18 civs BtS/Random Religions 18 civs BtS/RoM 2.3 Huge Earth 18 civs/Thomas' War 2.8 Huge Earth 18 civs/HitM 2.01 Huge Earth 18 civs/GEM 5.3 Ancient 26 civs/Map pack for Chiyu's Extra mod

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Old Mar 17, 2008, 04:23 AM   #28
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I wouldn't mind seeing the ship icons or any pics. No promises, but MOO2 is a great game and needs Civ4 ships.
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Old Mar 17, 2008, 04:54 AM   #29
JEELEN
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Some sample pics

Ship pics and buildings/leader icons from MOOjr (Civ2):
Attached Images
File Type: bmp UNITS.BMP (301.1 KB, 190 views)
File Type: bmp ICONS.BMP (301.1 KB, 91 views)
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MOD MOO2Civ SCENARIOS 1250 BC for BtS/1250 BC for HitM 2.01/1000 BC for BtS/1000 BC for CIV Gold BtS/600 BC for BtS/600 BC for CIV Gold BtS/300 BC for BtS/300 BC for CIV Gold 5.2/50 AD for BtS/750 AD for BtS/750 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1000 AD for SevoMod/1066 AD for BtS/1066 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1066 AD for Thomas' War/1066 AD for Amra BtS/The Crusades !/The Crusades! for CIV Gold BtS/The Crusades! for Esnaz's Mod/1600 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1790 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1862 AD for CIV Gold BtS/Star Trek scenarios MAPS Amra 18 civs BtS/Random Religions 18 civs BtS/RoM 2.3 Huge Earth 18 civs/Thomas' War 2.8 Huge Earth 18 civs/HitM 2.01 Huge Earth 18 civs/GEM 5.3 Ancient 26 civs/Map pack for Chiyu's Extra mod


Last edited by JEELEN; Mar 17, 2008 at 05:04 AM.
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Old Mar 17, 2008, 04:58 AM   #30
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Thanks and ugh. I forgot how ugly older game units are.
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Old Mar 17, 2008, 05:08 AM   #31
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Well, that was quick! I still wanted to mention that in post #26 I've linked to some actual MOO2 in-game graphic displays I found on the net. (I wanted to display the actual DL, but just found out it failed...)
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MOD MOO2Civ SCENARIOS 1250 BC for BtS/1250 BC for HitM 2.01/1000 BC for BtS/1000 BC for CIV Gold BtS/600 BC for BtS/600 BC for CIV Gold BtS/300 BC for BtS/300 BC for CIV Gold 5.2/50 AD for BtS/750 AD for BtS/750 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1000 AD for SevoMod/1066 AD for BtS/1066 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1066 AD for Thomas' War/1066 AD for Amra BtS/The Crusades !/The Crusades! for CIV Gold BtS/The Crusades! for Esnaz's Mod/1600 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1790 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1862 AD for CIV Gold BtS/Star Trek scenarios MAPS Amra 18 civs BtS/Random Religions 18 civs BtS/RoM 2.3 Huge Earth 18 civs/Thomas' War 2.8 Huge Earth 18 civs/HitM 2.01 Huge Earth 18 civs/GEM 5.3 Ancient 26 civs/Map pack for Chiyu's Extra mod

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Old Mar 17, 2008, 05:36 AM   #32
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UUs and UBs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalioden View Post
This means no UBs. There are no UBs in MOO2. After the conversion is complete, this might be an interesting addition.

As far as implementing the Darlok stealth. This is not really a UU. (There really are no UUs in MOO2, or perhaps one could say that every ship is a UU). It is a racial trait implemented as a ship technology which applies to all Darlok ships. A good way to implement this stealth attribute in Civ4 would by as a unit upgrade (like orcs in FFH2) that would be available to Darloks immediately (each Darlok unit would automatically start with this upgrade), but could be researched later by other civs.

One of my favorite aspects of MOO2 is the ability to customize the race. This could be implemented in Civ4 by similarly to the CivCustomizer (from Dale's Combat Mod).
I fully realize there are no UUs or UBs in MOO2 as such. There are however Admirals, Adminstrators and such to be found in space and ofcourse the racial abilities. One way of implementing these (other than through traits, which are limited to the race Leaders) might be by using UUs or, perhaps better, UBs - precisley because UBs are race-specific. If UUs would be implemented, it seems obvious that at least a Stealth ship should be Darlok-only. Anyway, this is just an idea I had on further implementation. (Thalioden's idea of giving Darlok vessels an automatic stealth upgrade would ofcourse be perfect, but at present I have no idea on how to do that.) I welcome any further practical answers on this matter.

Another matter: currently every race starts with a Planetary Defense unit, which I'd really like to replace by Marines - as in the original. Also Marines and the like (Battleoids!) should not be able to "walk across space", but should require some sort of Transport. (Again: don't know yet how to go about this...)

Finally, the Space Pirates would be perfect as a representation of the Antarans, who are still sorely lacking. (This might be a simple matter of renaming them, but they would need stronger, i.e. race-specific, ships.)
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MOD MOO2Civ SCENARIOS 1250 BC for BtS/1250 BC for HitM 2.01/1000 BC for BtS/1000 BC for CIV Gold BtS/600 BC for BtS/600 BC for CIV Gold BtS/300 BC for BtS/300 BC for CIV Gold 5.2/50 AD for BtS/750 AD for BtS/750 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1000 AD for SevoMod/1066 AD for BtS/1066 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1066 AD for Thomas' War/1066 AD for Amra BtS/The Crusades !/The Crusades! for CIV Gold BtS/The Crusades! for Esnaz's Mod/1600 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1790 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1862 AD for CIV Gold BtS/Star Trek scenarios MAPS Amra 18 civs BtS/Random Religions 18 civs BtS/RoM 2.3 Huge Earth 18 civs/Thomas' War 2.8 Huge Earth 18 civs/HitM 2.01 Huge Earth 18 civs/GEM 5.3 Ancient 26 civs/Map pack for Chiyu's Extra mod

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Old Mar 17, 2008, 11:44 AM   #33
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XML error messages

I think I got at least part of those darn little XML error messages licked! I ran a little test and the "TRAIT_" related messages didn't appear on startup. If all goes well I'll have

more news tomorrow.
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MOD MOO2Civ SCENARIOS 1250 BC for BtS/1250 BC for HitM 2.01/1000 BC for BtS/1000 BC for CIV Gold BtS/600 BC for BtS/600 BC for CIV Gold BtS/300 BC for BtS/300 BC for CIV Gold 5.2/50 AD for BtS/750 AD for BtS/750 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1000 AD for SevoMod/1066 AD for BtS/1066 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1066 AD for Thomas' War/1066 AD for Amra BtS/The Crusades !/The Crusades! for CIV Gold BtS/The Crusades! for Esnaz's Mod/1600 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1790 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1862 AD for CIV Gold BtS/Star Trek scenarios MAPS Amra 18 civs BtS/Random Religions 18 civs BtS/RoM 2.3 Huge Earth 18 civs/Thomas' War 2.8 Huge Earth 18 civs/HitM 2.01 Huge Earth 18 civs/GEM 5.3 Ancient 26 civs/Map pack for Chiyu's Extra mod

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Old Mar 19, 2008, 02:32 AM   #34
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XML error messages

I'm currently testing a XML Error Messages fix I came up with. If this turns out alright I'll release another little patch.
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MOD MOO2Civ SCENARIOS 1250 BC for BtS/1250 BC for HitM 2.01/1000 BC for BtS/1000 BC for CIV Gold BtS/600 BC for BtS/600 BC for CIV Gold BtS/300 BC for BtS/300 BC for CIV Gold 5.2/50 AD for BtS/750 AD for BtS/750 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1000 AD for SevoMod/1066 AD for BtS/1066 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1066 AD for Thomas' War/1066 AD for Amra BtS/The Crusades !/The Crusades! for CIV Gold BtS/The Crusades! for Esnaz's Mod/1600 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1790 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1862 AD for CIV Gold BtS/Star Trek scenarios MAPS Amra 18 civs BtS/Random Religions 18 civs BtS/RoM 2.3 Huge Earth 18 civs/Thomas' War 2.8 Huge Earth 18 civs/HitM 2.01 Huge Earth 18 civs/GEM 5.3 Ancient 26 civs/Map pack for Chiyu's Extra mod

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Old Mar 19, 2008, 07:03 AM   #35
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Thumbs up MOO2Civ Patch2

I've released a little patch including both a fix for load error messages plus Patch1 (the custom Star System names for all new colonies founded for all races).

I uploaded it here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...o=file&id=8788

NOTE: Although loading errors have been fixed, first contact diplomatic texts are not (yet) available for all leaders. (So it's possible you'll encounter a race with Diplo text missing.) I'm postponing this issue to a later date.
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MOD MOO2Civ SCENARIOS 1250 BC for BtS/1250 BC for HitM 2.01/1000 BC for BtS/1000 BC for CIV Gold BtS/600 BC for BtS/600 BC for CIV Gold BtS/300 BC for BtS/300 BC for CIV Gold 5.2/50 AD for BtS/750 AD for BtS/750 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1000 AD for SevoMod/1066 AD for BtS/1066 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1066 AD for Thomas' War/1066 AD for Amra BtS/The Crusades !/The Crusades! for CIV Gold BtS/The Crusades! for Esnaz's Mod/1600 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1790 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1862 AD for CIV Gold BtS/Star Trek scenarios MAPS Amra 18 civs BtS/Random Religions 18 civs BtS/RoM 2.3 Huge Earth 18 civs/Thomas' War 2.8 Huge Earth 18 civs/HitM 2.01 Huge Earth 18 civs/GEM 5.3 Ancient 26 civs/Map pack for Chiyu's Extra mod

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Old Mar 19, 2008, 09:23 AM   #36
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Nice work Jeelen. I am quite pleased that someone actually is interested in working out a mod based on FF. I just think it has got much of a potential that shouldn't be left away.

About the patch. Can you please arrange files into their right folder so that extracting the compressed file into the mod's folder overwrite the replaced files. Many players won't have a clue where this or that file should go. It took me a while to find out the the TerrainPlane one goes into misc though there is a folder named Terrain one would assume it goes there.
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Old Mar 19, 2008, 11:22 AM   #37
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Ah, yes, I have a tendency to be (too) concise; I have included a more detailed installation prodecure - and thx, BTW!
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MOD MOO2Civ SCENARIOS 1250 BC for BtS/1250 BC for HitM 2.01/1000 BC for BtS/1000 BC for CIV Gold BtS/600 BC for BtS/600 BC for CIV Gold BtS/300 BC for BtS/300 BC for CIV Gold 5.2/50 AD for BtS/750 AD for BtS/750 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1000 AD for SevoMod/1066 AD for BtS/1066 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1066 AD for Thomas' War/1066 AD for Amra BtS/The Crusades !/The Crusades! for CIV Gold BtS/The Crusades! for Esnaz's Mod/1600 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1790 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1862 AD for CIV Gold BtS/Star Trek scenarios MAPS Amra 18 civs BtS/Random Religions 18 civs BtS/RoM 2.3 Huge Earth 18 civs/Thomas' War 2.8 Huge Earth 18 civs/HitM 2.01 Huge Earth 18 civs/GEM 5.3 Ancient 26 civs/Map pack for Chiyu's Extra mod

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Old Mar 20, 2008, 05:36 PM   #38
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Civ4 BTS Startup Errors

When the Mod starts up, I get the following errors:

Trait_The Forge
Trait_Syndicate
Tech_Happy_1
Tech_Happy_2
Tech_Happy_3
Tech_Happy_5
Tech_Happy_7
Tech_Happy_9
Trait_Brotherhood
Trait_Astrotech
Trait_New_Earth

CivBuildingInfos.XML
CivReligionInfo.XML

...and maybe a couple of others. I made a copy of the Final Frontier folder and renamed it to MOO2CIV. I extracted and overwrote all files with the MOO2Civ.rar file. Lastly, I over wrote the existing files with the 3 files in Patch2.

Does anyone else get these errors? Did I do something wrong with the installation?

V/R

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Old Mar 20, 2008, 07:20 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionVeteran View Post
When the Mod starts up, I get the following errors:

Trait_The Forge
Trait_Syndicate
Tech_Happy_1
Tech_Happy_2
Tech_Happy_3
Tech_Happy_5
Tech_Happy_7
Tech_Happy_9

Trait_Brotherhood
Trait_Astrotech
Trait_New_Earth

CivBuildingInfos.XML
CivReligionInfo.XML


...and maybe a couple of others. I made a copy of the Final Frontier folder and renamed it to MOO2CIV. I extracted and overwrote all files with the MOO2Civ.rar file. Lastly, I over wrote the existing files with the 3 files in Patch2.

Does anyone else get these errors? Did I do something wrong with the installation?
OK, that's really weird, because I looked at the error messages one by one and the ones in bold letters weren't even in there, so I never touched those, nor does the patch - which I thoroughly tested before uploading. Have you tried re-downloading the mod?
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MOD MOO2Civ SCENARIOS 1250 BC for BtS/1250 BC for HitM 2.01/1000 BC for BtS/1000 BC for CIV Gold BtS/600 BC for BtS/600 BC for CIV Gold BtS/300 BC for BtS/300 BC for CIV Gold 5.2/50 AD for BtS/750 AD for BtS/750 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1000 AD for SevoMod/1066 AD for BtS/1066 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1066 AD for Thomas' War/1066 AD for Amra BtS/The Crusades !/The Crusades! for CIV Gold BtS/The Crusades! for Esnaz's Mod/1600 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1790 AD for CIV Gold BtS/1862 AD for CIV Gold BtS/Star Trek scenarios MAPS Amra 18 civs BtS/Random Religions 18 civs BtS/RoM 2.3 Huge Earth 18 civs/Thomas' War 2.8 Huge Earth 18 civs/HitM 2.01 Huge Earth 18 civs/GEM 5.3 Ancient 26 civs/Map pack for Chiyu's Extra mod

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Old Mar 20, 2008, 07:46 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEELEN View Post
I fully realize there are no UUs or UBs in MOO2 as such. There are however Admirals, Adminstrators and such to be found in space and ofcourse the racial abilities. One way of implementing these (other than through traits, which are limited to the race Leaders) might be by using UUs or, perhaps better, UBs - precisley because UBs are race-specific. If UUs would be implemented, it seems obvious that at least a Stealth ship should be Darlok-only. Anyway, this is just an idea I had on further implementation. (Thalioden's idea of giving Darlok vessels an automatic stealth upgrade would ofcourse be perfect, but at present I have no idea on how to do that.) I welcome any further practical answers on this matter.
The Fall from Heaven 2 mod has implemented this race limited automatic unit promotion for orcs (and perhaps other units). Someone who has much more modding knowledge than I could look at that code as an example. Kael may even give you the relevant code if you ask.

As far as implementing the leaders, Fall from Heaven 2 is again a good source. That mod has unique (as in only one) units that can be built. Sort of like wonders (only one can be built for the whole game), but in unit form. That could be a way to implement the MoO2 leaders. A random event could spawn giving the race (civ) the ability to buy one of these unique units (instead of building them). To implement it exaclty as in MoO2, with varying prices depending on race picks, leaders already owned, state of game, and a limited (four slots) pool of owned or available-to-be-purchased leaders would require quite a bit of tweaking, but the FFH2 code may be a good start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEELEN View Post
Another matter: currently every race starts with a Planetary Defense unit, which I'd really like to replace by Marines - as in the original. Also Marines and the like (Battleoids!) should not be able to "walk across space", but should require some sort of Transport. (Again: don't know yet how to go about this...)
You could define the planet (city) tiles on the map as being land and everything else as being water. Then the only way to get land units from planet to planet is with a transport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEELEN View Post
Finally, the Space Pirates would be perfect as a representation of the Antarans, who are still sorely lacking. (This might be a simple matter of renaming them, but they would need stronger, i.e. race-specific, ships.)
Hyborem of the Infernals is a non-player only civ in FFH2 that could form the basis of the Antarans. It spawns on the map after a certain wonder is built. I'm not sure how you could implement the alternate dimension as the location of the Antarans however.
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