ALC Game #22 Take 2: Arabs/Saladin
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
Scarredroman
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
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- 274
The question is whether to accept Zara's offer of surrender and become Saladin's vassal, now or continue the war. There's no fleet to finish off the Ethiopians. Gaul, which will have to build galleys is well placed for an attack on Sury's island city. Take the offer. Sury's time has come.
One Arabia had researched Optics, I assumed the next tech would be Astronomy. just because Arabia adopted bureaucracy did not mean that Saladin had to invent paper. The observatories boost science and the galleons will be needed for a transcontinental invasion.
A Great Merchant via Caste could provide the gold to upgrade the ancient troops to modern.
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
I think the Zara capitulation decision depends on your planned victory condition.
If you go for space, I suggest you vassalize everyone on your continent ASAP then turn on the tech afterburners. You'd be like a mini-USSR with your own satellite states, powering your Arabian Sputnik to Alpha Centauri.
If you go for domination, I would conquer everything of Zara's on the continent, then vassalize him when he's down to an island city or two. Then conquer FDR and Sury completely (possibly vassalizing Sury when he's down to his island city). One more foreign adventure after that should get you the win.
What did you think of Police State, Sisiutil? Did you notice the production boost?
If you go for space, I suggest you vassalize everyone on your continent ASAP then turn on the tech afterburners. You'd be like a mini-USSR with your own satellite states, powering your Arabian Sputnik to Alpha Centauri.
If you go for domination, I would conquer everything of Zara's on the continent, then vassalize him when he's down to an island city or two. Then conquer FDR and Sury completely (possibly vassalizing Sury when he's down to his island city). One more foreign adventure after that should get you the win.
What did you think of Police State, Sisiutil? Did you notice the production boost?
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 11: 1340 AD to 1525 AD (37 turns) - Part 1, in which one of the neighbours gets a nasty surprise
First off, a reply to slobberinbear's query: yes, I noticed Police State's production boost to military units, and it was significant and very helpful in going from having a virtually non-existent military to having one capable of capturing enemy cities.
Now, on to this round. I took the deal, managing to swap the offered techs (Paper instead of Drama).
Then something interesting happened. Even though the other two civs are separated from me by ocean, by getting Zara's map, I gained instant contact with them. First off, the guy who wiped out the Egyptians:
No, that wasn't a very even tech trade, but it enabled the Hagia Sophia which I'd captured in Aksum (so no need to switch into Serfdom in this game), and it earned me several diplomatic points with Monty, so he should be willing to trade resources when the time comes (I don't expect him to research any techs ahead of me--he's pathetic in that regard).
And I also met the guy who's been hogging the lion's share of the religions:
Ah-HA! I suspected that it was a Financial civ, and I was right. Guilds for Philosophy may seem generous, but I had a Great Scientist due in Gaul in about five turns, and this meant I could use him to lightbulb most of Education.
Here's a look at the other continents, courtesy of Zara's map:
I suspect that I may be able to win my domination just by conquering my continent, but we'll see. Now, does anyone have an explanation for how I suddenly had contact with psycho-boy and bowl-head?
I also made a tech trade with Roosevelt:
I also squeezed him for another 250 gold or or so in tribute--which put a 10-turn peace treaty in place, but my units needed a few turns to heal and move into position anyway. I may as well get everything I can from Roosevelt before I kill him, right?
And I kept going--I was a tech-tradin' fiend early in the round, because I have some catching up to do.
Heck, I figured I may as well trade off older techs for some spare change before someone else beats me to it.
However, I was careful in some regards. I didn't trade Gunpowder to anyone, for example.
As I mentioned, my next Great Person appeared, a Great Scientist in my GP farm of Gaul:
As you can see, I used him as I intended, to lightbulb Education, which was then completed on the next turn. I decided to go after Economics next. I hadn't won too many other of the game's "mini-prizes" for a while, so I thought I'd pursue that one. The gold from the trade mission would allow me to catch up a little more in research (which I figured was a more important goal than switching to US and doing some rush-buying).
Around this time I was able to switch into Mercantilism as some of you suggested.
I had to wait a few turns because I'd switched civics near the end of the previous round. The change made sense since Sury had switched to it as well and at this point I didn't have Astronomy for intercontinental trade routes. I was raking in a grand total of around 8 GPT from Zara on my trade routes; I knew I could do better just with a few free merchant specialists.
I also started to get around to founding some of those other secondary cities we'd discussed much earlier in the game.
And then it was finally time to declare war. I decided to go after Roosevelt first, then Sury later.
I had my stack in position near New York. It moved next to the city right away, then captured it on the very next turn.
I love being able to pounce on an enemy city like that right away. It deals a good-sized blow to my opponent.
Another day, another tech sold for a few bucks.
It isn't that dangerous--remember none of us have religions yet. In spite of that, as one of you noticed, Sury did build the University of Sankore. Go figure. I suppose there's the benefit of denying it to others, but still--that's a lot of hammers to divert for very little benefit.
Pacal researched Astronomy before me, so I made some trade deals with him. Turns out he didn't have copper, which allowed me to get a very sweet deal.
I got some information regarding how advanced everyone is. No surprises.
And I managed to beat everyone else to Economics, including Suryavarman, who was breathing down my neck, as you can see below. Yay me.
At this point the GM would have lightbulbed Printing Press, which is not a high-priority tech when you're running a SE; as I mentioned above, I thought a trade mission would give me the most benefit. So I built a Caravel and loaded John Stuart Mill onto it and sent him to the Aztec city of Thebes, which was going to give me the best trade mission deal (2850 gold or thereabouts).
I didn't change civics to Free Market; Sury was running Mercantilism, I was at war with Roosevelt, Zara's cities offered meagre trade route income, and I lacked Astronomy for intercontinental trade. So I stuck with Mercantilism for a while.
I finally got some religions spreading to me, not that the one I got was going to do me any good.
I managed to get Taoism in one city before Pacal switched to Mercantilism and the trade routes disappeared. Unfortunately the city it spread to is Basra, which is new and small and not exactly a production powerhouse yet.
Aksum also generated my next Great Person, a Great Prophet:
I considered settling him there along with several other prophets, but I decided to hold off and use him for a Golden Age (he'd lightbulb part of Divine Right at this point--not exactly a high priority tech for me). I want to wait until I've captured Washington and the Mausoleum of Maussollos before starting a GA, however--in fact, I wanted to wait until the war is over and all the formerly American cities I owned came out of revolt so I could get maximum benefit from the Mausoleum-extended GA.
I got another random event, one I actually haven't encountered before.
The other prizes were some gold our a couple of Pikemen. This seemed like the best benefit. I anticipate converting Medina into my Ironworks city, so having a Military Instructor there is very nice and well worth the investment, in my estimation.
To be continued...
First off, a reply to slobberinbear's query: yes, I noticed Police State's production boost to military units, and it was significant and very helpful in going from having a virtually non-existent military to having one capable of capturing enemy cities.
Now, on to this round. I took the deal, managing to swap the offered techs (Paper instead of Drama).
Then something interesting happened. Even though the other two civs are separated from me by ocean, by getting Zara's map, I gained instant contact with them. First off, the guy who wiped out the Egyptians:
No, that wasn't a very even tech trade, but it enabled the Hagia Sophia which I'd captured in Aksum (so no need to switch into Serfdom in this game), and it earned me several diplomatic points with Monty, so he should be willing to trade resources when the time comes (I don't expect him to research any techs ahead of me--he's pathetic in that regard).
And I also met the guy who's been hogging the lion's share of the religions:
Ah-HA! I suspected that it was a Financial civ, and I was right. Guilds for Philosophy may seem generous, but I had a Great Scientist due in Gaul in about five turns, and this meant I could use him to lightbulb most of Education.
Here's a look at the other continents, courtesy of Zara's map:
I suspect that I may be able to win my domination just by conquering my continent, but we'll see. Now, does anyone have an explanation for how I suddenly had contact with psycho-boy and bowl-head?
I also made a tech trade with Roosevelt:
I also squeezed him for another 250 gold or or so in tribute--which put a 10-turn peace treaty in place, but my units needed a few turns to heal and move into position anyway. I may as well get everything I can from Roosevelt before I kill him, right?
And I kept going--I was a tech-tradin' fiend early in the round, because I have some catching up to do.
Heck, I figured I may as well trade off older techs for some spare change before someone else beats me to it.
However, I was careful in some regards. I didn't trade Gunpowder to anyone, for example.
As I mentioned, my next Great Person appeared, a Great Scientist in my GP farm of Gaul:
As you can see, I used him as I intended, to lightbulb Education, which was then completed on the next turn. I decided to go after Economics next. I hadn't won too many other of the game's "mini-prizes" for a while, so I thought I'd pursue that one. The gold from the trade mission would allow me to catch up a little more in research (which I figured was a more important goal than switching to US and doing some rush-buying).
Around this time I was able to switch into Mercantilism as some of you suggested.
I had to wait a few turns because I'd switched civics near the end of the previous round. The change made sense since Sury had switched to it as well and at this point I didn't have Astronomy for intercontinental trade routes. I was raking in a grand total of around 8 GPT from Zara on my trade routes; I knew I could do better just with a few free merchant specialists.
I also started to get around to founding some of those other secondary cities we'd discussed much earlier in the game.
And then it was finally time to declare war. I decided to go after Roosevelt first, then Sury later.
I had my stack in position near New York. It moved next to the city right away, then captured it on the very next turn.
I love being able to pounce on an enemy city like that right away. It deals a good-sized blow to my opponent.
Another day, another tech sold for a few bucks.
It isn't that dangerous--remember none of us have religions yet. In spite of that, as one of you noticed, Sury did build the University of Sankore. Go figure. I suppose there's the benefit of denying it to others, but still--that's a lot of hammers to divert for very little benefit.
Pacal researched Astronomy before me, so I made some trade deals with him. Turns out he didn't have copper, which allowed me to get a very sweet deal.
I got some information regarding how advanced everyone is. No surprises.
And I managed to beat everyone else to Economics, including Suryavarman, who was breathing down my neck, as you can see below. Yay me.
At this point the GM would have lightbulbed Printing Press, which is not a high-priority tech when you're running a SE; as I mentioned above, I thought a trade mission would give me the most benefit. So I built a Caravel and loaded John Stuart Mill onto it and sent him to the Aztec city of Thebes, which was going to give me the best trade mission deal (2850 gold or thereabouts).
I didn't change civics to Free Market; Sury was running Mercantilism, I was at war with Roosevelt, Zara's cities offered meagre trade route income, and I lacked Astronomy for intercontinental trade. So I stuck with Mercantilism for a while.
I finally got some religions spreading to me, not that the one I got was going to do me any good.
I managed to get Taoism in one city before Pacal switched to Mercantilism and the trade routes disappeared. Unfortunately the city it spread to is Basra, which is new and small and not exactly a production powerhouse yet.
Aksum also generated my next Great Person, a Great Prophet:
I considered settling him there along with several other prophets, but I decided to hold off and use him for a Golden Age (he'd lightbulb part of Divine Right at this point--not exactly a high priority tech for me). I want to wait until I've captured Washington and the Mausoleum of Maussollos before starting a GA, however--in fact, I wanted to wait until the war is over and all the formerly American cities I owned came out of revolt so I could get maximum benefit from the Mausoleum-extended GA.
I got another random event, one I actually haven't encountered before.
The other prizes were some gold our a couple of Pikemen. This seemed like the best benefit. I anticipate converting Medina into my Ironworks city, so having a Military Instructor there is very nice and well worth the investment, in my estimation.
To be continued...
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 11: 1340 AD to 1525 AD (37 turns) - Part 2, in which Roosevelt gets the pummelling he so richly deserves
Oh, come on, he does. He's been snooty all game, and over what? One stolen worker? Puh-leeeeze.
At any rate, the war continued; my next target was the American capital.
Poor Roosevelt was collapsing like the proverbial deck of cards.
Washington contained a wonder, the Mausoleum of Maussollos:
But as I mentioned in the previous post, I didn't use the Great Prophet for a Golden Age yet. It's better to wait until I'm done conquering American cities and they've all come out of revolt, to maximize the benefits of the GA.
Someone was asking about the Camel Archers. Here's a screenie of one in battle, though not facing particularly onerous odds.
I have used them, with both Flanking promotions, in a few low-odds battles; not only have several of them survived, they've won several battles at 45% odds and lower. I'm not sure why that is--the best result I was expecting was for them to withdraw. Not that I'm complaining!
Anyway, I captured Seattle with a mini-stack that I launched out of Baghdad. Lord Chambers had mentioned he prefers to use a few smaller stacks rather than the big one I like, so I took the concept out for a spin. It works, but the increased micro-management kind of gets to me.
The GM arrived in Thebes for his trade mission:
I went into extreme deficit research mode, pumping the science slider up to 100% and vowing to eat into the gold until there was only about 500 left (my just-in-case-there's-a-random-event fund).
I gather that Taoism was Pacal's state religion before he switched to FR. He also built the Apostolic Palace (surprise, surprise) and was the only candidate in the AP elections.
Of course I voted for him--it's an easy diplomatic bonus.
My next tech finished...
I made some trade deals with Monty. He doesn't have copper either, so he was very generous. I didn't switch to Free Market yet, however, even though Montezuma was still running Decentralization. My stack was closing in on Philadelphia, you see, so I thought I'd wait just a little longer until I could switch into both Free Market and Free Religion (Philly contains the Shwedagon Paya, you see, and I had not yet obtained Liberalism).
I decided to use up some of the EPs I had versus Roosevelt to speed up the whole process.
Even though it was on a hill, Philadelphia fell quickly after that.
Now it was time to switch civics.
The benefits from Free Market weren't huge, but were significant--better than the results from the few free merchant specialists I was running, methinks:
I'll be trying to convince Pacal to switch to Free Market in the next round to further benefit from the civic.
And then Suryavarman finally declared war on America, long after I thought he would.
I decided that Printing Press was a higher-priority tech for me than I had previously thought after all. Mainly because I wanted to pursue Rifling to have a significant military advantage when I take on Sury.
My next GP was another Great Scientist in Gaul:
I used him to lightbulb part of Scientific Method but did not finish researching the tech. I'd like to see if any more religions spread to me and get a few monasteries built first. But I don't want to hold off too long, as I think SM would make a valuable trading tech.
I founded another one of my marginal-but-useful inner cities:
I have one more of these to go, a fishing village at the southern tip of the continent to claim the crab. On the one hand, it's a bit of a low priority--I have one other crab resource already and don't really need it for resource trading. On the other hand, there is a free tile with a resource next to it down there, and you know how the AI likes to claim spots like that.
My next tech was also on the path to Rifling, and may be useful for trading later on:
Sury managed to beat me to Boston and capture it, claiming the Sistine Chapel in the process--so his cultural boundaries may become a bit of a pain before too long. But I manged to beat him to the last American city, Atlanta:
Stick a fork in yourself, Roosy, 'cause you're done.
But this was not the end of the round! Pacal had finished researching Chemistry, which meant that it was no longer a monopoly tech for my vassal Zara--who was now, thanks to MMS, up to "Pleased" with me.
And I also managed to earn my most recent Great General in that final battle.
I must admit to being in something of a quandary regarding how to use him. I already have to Military Instructors settled in the Heroic Epic city. I'm not big on attaching GGs to units, not once I have my super-healer. But saving him for a military academy in the West Point city seems a long way off. Yes, Zara will finish researching the tech that unlocks MAs in 25 turns, but it will be a monopoly tech for him until someone else researches it, and who knows how long that's going to take? The next GG is 147 XPs away, however.
And speaking of West Point, where should it go? I've built the Moai Statues in Aksum, which has excellent production and is coastal, so I was thinking of putting WP there.
At any rate, that's it for the round. The saved game file is below, and a state-of-the-world post will follow.
Oh, come on, he does. He's been snooty all game, and over what? One stolen worker? Puh-leeeeze.
At any rate, the war continued; my next target was the American capital.
Poor Roosevelt was collapsing like the proverbial deck of cards.
Washington contained a wonder, the Mausoleum of Maussollos:
But as I mentioned in the previous post, I didn't use the Great Prophet for a Golden Age yet. It's better to wait until I'm done conquering American cities and they've all come out of revolt, to maximize the benefits of the GA.
Someone was asking about the Camel Archers. Here's a screenie of one in battle, though not facing particularly onerous odds.
I have used them, with both Flanking promotions, in a few low-odds battles; not only have several of them survived, they've won several battles at 45% odds and lower. I'm not sure why that is--the best result I was expecting was for them to withdraw. Not that I'm complaining!
Anyway, I captured Seattle with a mini-stack that I launched out of Baghdad. Lord Chambers had mentioned he prefers to use a few smaller stacks rather than the big one I like, so I took the concept out for a spin. It works, but the increased micro-management kind of gets to me.
The GM arrived in Thebes for his trade mission:
I went into extreme deficit research mode, pumping the science slider up to 100% and vowing to eat into the gold until there was only about 500 left (my just-in-case-there's-a-random-event fund).
I gather that Taoism was Pacal's state religion before he switched to FR. He also built the Apostolic Palace (surprise, surprise) and was the only candidate in the AP elections.
Of course I voted for him--it's an easy diplomatic bonus.
My next tech finished...
I made some trade deals with Monty. He doesn't have copper either, so he was very generous. I didn't switch to Free Market yet, however, even though Montezuma was still running Decentralization. My stack was closing in on Philadelphia, you see, so I thought I'd wait just a little longer until I could switch into both Free Market and Free Religion (Philly contains the Shwedagon Paya, you see, and I had not yet obtained Liberalism).
I decided to use up some of the EPs I had versus Roosevelt to speed up the whole process.
Even though it was on a hill, Philadelphia fell quickly after that.
Now it was time to switch civics.
The benefits from Free Market weren't huge, but were significant--better than the results from the few free merchant specialists I was running, methinks:
I'll be trying to convince Pacal to switch to Free Market in the next round to further benefit from the civic.
And then Suryavarman finally declared war on America, long after I thought he would.
I decided that Printing Press was a higher-priority tech for me than I had previously thought after all. Mainly because I wanted to pursue Rifling to have a significant military advantage when I take on Sury.
My next GP was another Great Scientist in Gaul:
I used him to lightbulb part of Scientific Method but did not finish researching the tech. I'd like to see if any more religions spread to me and get a few monasteries built first. But I don't want to hold off too long, as I think SM would make a valuable trading tech.
I founded another one of my marginal-but-useful inner cities:
I have one more of these to go, a fishing village at the southern tip of the continent to claim the crab. On the one hand, it's a bit of a low priority--I have one other crab resource already and don't really need it for resource trading. On the other hand, there is a free tile with a resource next to it down there, and you know how the AI likes to claim spots like that.
My next tech was also on the path to Rifling, and may be useful for trading later on:
Sury managed to beat me to Boston and capture it, claiming the Sistine Chapel in the process--so his cultural boundaries may become a bit of a pain before too long. But I manged to beat him to the last American city, Atlanta:
Stick a fork in yourself, Roosy, 'cause you're done.
But this was not the end of the round! Pacal had finished researching Chemistry, which meant that it was no longer a monopoly tech for my vassal Zara--who was now, thanks to MMS, up to "Pleased" with me.
And I also managed to earn my most recent Great General in that final battle.
I must admit to being in something of a quandary regarding how to use him. I already have to Military Instructors settled in the Heroic Epic city. I'm not big on attaching GGs to units, not once I have my super-healer. But saving him for a military academy in the West Point city seems a long way off. Yes, Zara will finish researching the tech that unlocks MAs in 25 turns, but it will be a monopoly tech for him until someone else researches it, and who knows how long that's going to take? The next GG is 147 XPs away, however.
And speaking of West Point, where should it go? I've built the Moai Statues in Aksum, which has excellent production and is coastal, so I was thinking of putting WP there.
At any rate, that's it for the round. The saved game file is below, and a state-of-the-world post will follow.
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 3,663
I suspect that was capitulation, rather than maps
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
The State of the World, 1525 AD
First off, a look at the map of my continent, sans resource indicators for clarity.
And here's a look at what I know so far of the other land masses.
Now, there's one interesting little island a little northeast of Monty and a little southeast of Pacal:
Yes, it's all those sugar resources that have me looking at this and licking my lips. Plus, if my own continent doesn't quite give me the domination win, then who knows, this might. At the very least, it'll be important to own as much land as possible, and it shouldn't be too hard prying it away from some barbarians.
But there are two problems: first, Pacal already has Astronomy and may beat me there. Second, I really should be focused on going after Sury ASAP rather than pursuing barb cities. Perhaps I should leave it for Pacal or Monty? I certainly have enough resources on them that I could trade for the sugar if I want it.
Domestic advisor:
So, mostly civilian builds. I may have to build up a little more before going after Sury--he still has a higher power rating than me, as you'll see, and from what I've seen, he has a lot of Knights, which could be very annoying.
Civics:
Foreign Advisor, Relations and Glance:
And for the umpteenth time in an ALC game, I'm planning on attacking the leader who's friendliest with me. If word of this gets around, no one's gonna want to be my friend anymore. Being a blood-thirsty, war-mongering despot can be lonely sometimes.
Current trade deals:
As I said, I was able to get sweet deals from Monty and Pacal for copper. Meanwhile, I'm trying to prop up my vassal, Zara, as much as I can so he'll be a good research and war partner. Though I have some seemingly-innate reticence there: should I gift horses and iron to him as well? Or should I be opportunistic, leave Zara a little weak, and see if Sury will take any of his cities on the continent, which I could later take for myself?
Why yes, I did read Machiavelli in university. Why do you ask?
Resources:
Trade route income and civics:
Techs:
I could acquire Liberalism pretty easily, but why should I? I'm running a SE for the most part, so Free Speech isn't that big a benefit to me. And trading Printing Press to Pacal will only enhance the benefits of Financial for him, while trading it to Sury could put him closer to suddenly having Rifles in the middle of my war with him. Yeah, I guess I'll probably miss out on the free Great Spy from getting to Communism first... but so what?
Military Advisor:
For the first time in this game, the Religion Advisor:
I mean, really, Islam? The RNG is yankin' my chain here.
Victory conditions:
So, looking at the map, it looks as though I own about 2/3 of my continent, and according to the above, I have just a smidgen under 1/2 of what I need for a domination win. So it looks like an intercontinental invasion will be required. Pacal's land is looking awfully attractive for that. All those wonders and holy cities, mmmmm...
The Power Graph:
So Sury still outclasses me in terms of sheer numbers. Like I said, he has a lot of Knights. It's tempting to jump all over him right now, but I'm thinking it would make more sense to wait several turns until I have several Riflemen to counter his mounted units. He's researching Constitution rather than Military Tradition for Cuirassiers, which is what I was a little afraid he'd do in the previous round, so I have that going for me... for now.
Montezuma's power rating is also worrisome, because he has Astronomy now and could launch an intercontinental invasion. I'd go after Pacal if I was in his ceremonial sandals, but you can never trust Monty to do what makes sense. Am I right or am I right?
The Production Graph:
Monty is going through a golden age right now, IIRC, which would explain his spike on this chart. Meanwhile, my own production outclasses that of Sury by an almost 2:1 margin. In that regard, he's Japan and I'm America at the start of WWII. I may experience a Pearl Harbour somewhere, but I'm feeling confident about the long run.
What I'm hoping is that Sury will park the majority of his units in one particular city near my borders, allowing me to pull up next to it and wipe out the bulk of his army in one fell swoop. I've done that before; the complicated part is keeping the Trebuchets out of harm's way at first, otherwise all those Khmer Khnights will make mincemeat out of them.
Demographics:
I'm only #2 in approval rate?!? I'll have to start beating my citizens until they love me more...
Top 5 Cities/Wonders:
Ooooo, look at Mutal, with all those bright, shiny wonders (mind you, most of them are obsolete/useless, but still). And it's a holy city. And it's coastal. Ooooo...
The only problem is that the AP is there, and Pacal could use it to cause some trouble for me. Normally I'd raze the AP city, but this one's a holy city with a shrine.
But I'm getting ahead of myself; Sury is my next focus.
So here's a look at the Espionage Screen, with a focus on my least-favourite Martian:
So I think the main decision point is the one I brought up earlier--attack Sury now with what I have, or wait about 20 turns until I finish researching Rifling and have several Rifle units built? Maybe I'll get really lucky and Pacal will finish the Taj Mahal by then. Why would that be lucky? Maybe he'll then trade Nationalism to me, and I'll be able to draft Riflemen.
Meh, I'm rarely that lucky...
First off, a look at the map of my continent, sans resource indicators for clarity.
And here's a look at what I know so far of the other land masses.
Now, there's one interesting little island a little northeast of Monty and a little southeast of Pacal:
Yes, it's all those sugar resources that have me looking at this and licking my lips. Plus, if my own continent doesn't quite give me the domination win, then who knows, this might. At the very least, it'll be important to own as much land as possible, and it shouldn't be too hard prying it away from some barbarians.
But there are two problems: first, Pacal already has Astronomy and may beat me there. Second, I really should be focused on going after Sury ASAP rather than pursuing barb cities. Perhaps I should leave it for Pacal or Monty? I certainly have enough resources on them that I could trade for the sugar if I want it.
Domestic advisor:
So, mostly civilian builds. I may have to build up a little more before going after Sury--he still has a higher power rating than me, as you'll see, and from what I've seen, he has a lot of Knights, which could be very annoying.
Civics:
Foreign Advisor, Relations and Glance:
And for the umpteenth time in an ALC game, I'm planning on attacking the leader who's friendliest with me. If word of this gets around, no one's gonna want to be my friend anymore. Being a blood-thirsty, war-mongering despot can be lonely sometimes.
Current trade deals:
As I said, I was able to get sweet deals from Monty and Pacal for copper. Meanwhile, I'm trying to prop up my vassal, Zara, as much as I can so he'll be a good research and war partner. Though I have some seemingly-innate reticence there: should I gift horses and iron to him as well? Or should I be opportunistic, leave Zara a little weak, and see if Sury will take any of his cities on the continent, which I could later take for myself?
Why yes, I did read Machiavelli in university. Why do you ask?
Resources:
Trade route income and civics:
Techs:
I could acquire Liberalism pretty easily, but why should I? I'm running a SE for the most part, so Free Speech isn't that big a benefit to me. And trading Printing Press to Pacal will only enhance the benefits of Financial for him, while trading it to Sury could put him closer to suddenly having Rifles in the middle of my war with him. Yeah, I guess I'll probably miss out on the free Great Spy from getting to Communism first... but so what?
Military Advisor:
For the first time in this game, the Religion Advisor:
I mean, really, Islam? The RNG is yankin' my chain here.
Victory conditions:
So, looking at the map, it looks as though I own about 2/3 of my continent, and according to the above, I have just a smidgen under 1/2 of what I need for a domination win. So it looks like an intercontinental invasion will be required. Pacal's land is looking awfully attractive for that. All those wonders and holy cities, mmmmm...
The Power Graph:
So Sury still outclasses me in terms of sheer numbers. Like I said, he has a lot of Knights. It's tempting to jump all over him right now, but I'm thinking it would make more sense to wait several turns until I have several Riflemen to counter his mounted units. He's researching Constitution rather than Military Tradition for Cuirassiers, which is what I was a little afraid he'd do in the previous round, so I have that going for me... for now.
Montezuma's power rating is also worrisome, because he has Astronomy now and could launch an intercontinental invasion. I'd go after Pacal if I was in his ceremonial sandals, but you can never trust Monty to do what makes sense. Am I right or am I right?
The Production Graph:
Monty is going through a golden age right now, IIRC, which would explain his spike on this chart. Meanwhile, my own production outclasses that of Sury by an almost 2:1 margin. In that regard, he's Japan and I'm America at the start of WWII. I may experience a Pearl Harbour somewhere, but I'm feeling confident about the long run.
What I'm hoping is that Sury will park the majority of his units in one particular city near my borders, allowing me to pull up next to it and wipe out the bulk of his army in one fell swoop. I've done that before; the complicated part is keeping the Trebuchets out of harm's way at first, otherwise all those Khmer Khnights will make mincemeat out of them.
Demographics:
I'm only #2 in approval rate?!? I'll have to start beating my citizens until they love me more...
Top 5 Cities/Wonders:
Ooooo, look at Mutal, with all those bright, shiny wonders (mind you, most of them are obsolete/useless, but still). And it's a holy city. And it's coastal. Ooooo...
The only problem is that the AP is there, and Pacal could use it to cause some trouble for me. Normally I'd raze the AP city, but this one's a holy city with a shrine.
But I'm getting ahead of myself; Sury is my next focus.
So here's a look at the Espionage Screen, with a focus on my least-favourite Martian:
So I think the main decision point is the one I brought up earlier--attack Sury now with what I have, or wait about 20 turns until I finish researching Rifling and have several Rifle units built? Maybe I'll get really lucky and Pacal will finish the Taj Mahal by then. Why would that be lucky? Maybe he'll then trade Nationalism to me, and I'll be able to draft Riflemen.
Meh, I'm rarely that lucky...
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Interesting! I didn't realize capitulation worked that way--that in addition to everything else, the vassal would hand over contact with civs you yourself had not yet contacted. I suppose it makes sense, since you now run their foreign policy for them.
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 3,663
As for Vanya...
The thing that leaps out at me is the number of coastal targets. Pacal is entirely coastal, Sury has 14? cities on the coast, Monty 11?
Does that mean promoted boats? Or are spies going to be the order of the day for dropping defenses?
If I ran the zoo, I'd probably use Sury as the dry run for how you plan to go after Monty. But you are probably going to need to convert one or two of your inland cities to production powerhouses, and find one or two more useful places to build boats.
So as I see it, you either drop the GG into a seaport, to give your ships an extra boost, or you build yourself a blitz amphibious power horse.
The thing that leaps out at me is the number of coastal targets. Pacal is entirely coastal, Sury has 14? cities on the coast, Monty 11?
Does that mean promoted boats? Or are spies going to be the order of the day for dropping defenses?
If I ran the zoo, I'd probably use Sury as the dry run for how you plan to go after Monty. But you are probably going to need to convert one or two of your inland cities to production powerhouses, and find one or two more useful places to build boats.
So as I see it, you either drop the GG into a seaport, to give your ships an extra boost, or you build yourself a blitz amphibious power horse.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
You seem to have posted the power graph instead of the production graph.
As far as the game goes I would take out Sury before worrying about sugar islands.
As far as the game goes I would take out Sury before worrying about sugar islands.
First, that picture of Zara at the beginning is beautiful, truly a work of art.
Second, like you said before, you got this game. Build your collection of troops to finish off Sury, build up a horde of galleys, and go after Monty. While yes, Pacal is the tech leader and had much better land/cities, you out power Monty by so much that you can easily have two or three stacks walk through him in no time at all. After that, youll have your domination victory, game, set, match. not even enough time to use any of the cities you conquer. Also, Monty has more land, most of Pacal's land is made up of island settlements.
If you really feel crazy, you can beeline Assembly Line and have some nice infantry to Monties crossbows and macemen... and wouldnt that be fun!
Unless something dramatic happens, I don't see this game lasting more than another round or two.
EDIT: Alright, little bit of an exaggeration, but I think I still make my point
Second, like you said before, you got this game. Build your collection of troops to finish off Sury, build up a horde of galleys, and go after Monty. While yes, Pacal is the tech leader and had much better land/cities, you out power Monty by so much that you can easily have two or three stacks walk through him in no time at all. After that, youll have your domination victory, game, set, match. not even enough time to use any of the cities you conquer. Also, Monty has more land, most of Pacal's land is made up of island settlements.
If you really feel crazy, you can beeline Assembly Line and have some nice infantry to Monties crossbows and macemen... and wouldnt that be fun!
Unless something dramatic happens, I don't see this game lasting more than another round or two.
EDIT: Alright, little bit of an exaggeration, but I think I still make my point
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Fixed! Thanks for catching that.
He does look ticked off, doesn't he?
A happy accident, that one.
pigswill
fly (one day)
If you've got a spare GG you can create another medic to enable you to run a second stack to speed up conquest.
NintendoTogepi
Noble Pacifist
Don't go after Pacal, he has the AP and too much coastal and technology lead.
Monty is always easy to war against, he makes huge stacks that you can wipe out and he's done for.
So Sury followed by Monty, and then maybe Pacal if nessecary.
Monty is always easy to war against, he makes huge stacks that you can wipe out and he's done for.
So Sury followed by Monty, and then maybe Pacal if nessecary.
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
The AP's only a problem if its religion is widespread in your empire. If it's only one or two cities affected (out of the large number S has), then you lose nothing by defying resolutions.
I'd say the fact that Pacal's got a largely coastal empire spread across several islands makes him an ideal target for an amphibious invasion later in the game. His forces will be scattered making it easy to pick off his cities without having to worry much about a counter-attack.
Sury should die first though.
Scarredroman
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 274
Okay so Gaul's not on the coast, it's Etruscan. Your Gaul is my Medina. You plan to make your Medina with its base 20 hammers into your Ironworks city. Etruscans base 36. It woould make more sense to place it in Etruscan, along with the Heroic Epic. I'd settle the Great Prophet in Etruscan and use the GG to fire off the GA.
You had all that money, chemistry and didn't use it to promote your maceman. You can build grenadiers or the cheaper pikemen, so why worry about knights? Not that you are building any grenadiers. Crossbowmen are much better at dealing with melee units than longbowmen.
An Academy in Mecca should be your next use of a great scientist. I suppose your plan is to put both Oxford and Walll Street in Mecca?
Whilst you have Sury's stack in still in revolting Boston, seems like an opportube time to strike.
You had all that money, chemistry and didn't use it to promote your maceman. You can build grenadiers or the cheaper pikemen, so why worry about knights? Not that you are building any grenadiers. Crossbowmen are much better at dealing with melee units than longbowmen.
An Academy in Mecca should be your next use of a great scientist. I suppose your plan is to put both Oxford and Walll Street in Mecca?
Whilst you have Sury's stack in still in revolting Boston, seems like an opportube time to strike.
An also-ran is someone that was never really in contention... who never really affected the course of the game, a footnote in the annals of history.
If you were recounting a 400m race in athletics, an also-ran is someone about whom you might say, "oh yeah, he ran too."
If you were recounting a 400m race in athletics, an also-ran is someone about whom you might say, "oh yeah, he ran too."
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