Special unitz.....

[growthudemocracy]

I can see it now.......me as the Chinesse plenty o' horses, plenty o' iron, ahead in tech, only the greeks will survive my heavy calvary......the babs, persians, nad egyptians "special" units trampled under our hoofs as my great leader (?Hannible?) leads us to glory..........to me these unitz seem unbalanced.............

It's too early to say so now! Remember the Mongols... Oh, yeah... But its still too early.

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<IMG SRC="http://www.virtuallandmedia.com/flags4/europe/FIN.GIF" border=0> &lt;-- THIS COUNTRY IS ON AMNESTYS DARK LIST OF HUMAN RIGHTS!

[kittenOFchaos]

...the British/English man-of-war will mean all your sea belong to us!

[Hammanu]

I think the chineese rider will come along much later... anyway, I see it as a mostly defensive "patrol" unit, good because it can both be fortified effectively and can venture from a city, kill a foe and return. It would be great for a republic, I think, as it wont spend much time outside the city and cause unhappiness. But for an effective atack 4 is too weak, I think, against pikemen.

[growthudemocracy]

good to hear feed back..... yeah i'm sure sid and those guys made it ti balance out

The Chinese unit will be formidible, especially if you lack your special unit early.

[rdwendt]

What's all the fuss about? I'm not that impressed with the Chinese unit; at least, that is, in comparision to other special units.
In practice, the slight advantage that these special units give will not unbalance a particular game unless there was a situation where the two civs involved (the attacker and defender) had vastly different military capabilities or were already unbalanced.
Besides, to claim that your unit will make you superior requires that you can exert its influence in a short enough time frame before that special unit (like the chinese horseman) becomes obsolete. Tanks and horses just don't mix... get my drift?

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[This message has been edited by rdwendt (edited September 08, 2001).]

[Hammanu]

ONe interesting thing that special units imply is that some civs are better for conquering the world then others. On a large map, I think Americans or another civ that gets a late, powerful special unit will have the advantage, unless you can conquer the world in bc, which sounds unlikely with these new rules.

The Chineese special unit puts them into a good position to secure their border during the middle ages and then move toward a cultural victory, I think.

Of corse, maybe the civ's attributes will have a much greater influence then the special units, we'll see.

Unlikely that the civ-specific abilities are intended to give any 'significant' advantage, as that would unbalance the game. I really think they are more spice than substance.

Looking at the Rider, the extra defense seems intended to keep them relevant a little longer into the early gunpowder age. If the Civ II model is followed, hit points will double then, so an attack 3, 20 HP Musketeer ends up with a smaller edge than is currently the case.

We have not seen most of the really important combat numbers. Are city walls x3 like civ II, or x2 ala SMAC? Forts 50% or maybe 25% bonus? With the general trend towards lower integer numbers on the units, the bonuses almost have to come down as well. Or you get something like a veteran Hoplite behind City Walls that takes out Tanks.

Agni.

by the end game i don't think that special units will make THAT big of a difference as far as this ridiculous "only some civs are good for conquering the world" speculation. it's all about HOW YOU PLAY - i'm sure that a powerful industry and economy will be able to crush even elite squadrons of US fighter jets or German Panzer divisions. look at what happened in WWII - having Panzers didn't keep the Germans from losing in face of Russia's superior manpower and determination.

[Hammanu]

KMA, Robby. I will make all the ridiculous suggestions I want to. Just make sure you read them more carefully, and don't quote me out of context.

[The Last Conformist]

Speaking of City Walls, I wonder if they're introducing some kind of "modern equivalent". In SMAC, the city walls-analogue (called "perimeter defense") as said only gives a +100% defense bonus, but eventually you acquire tech to build "Tachyon Fields" that add another +100%.

So, I could imagine a system were you early in the game acquires city walls that give +100% defense but are ignored by heavy artillery, and later get to build "trenchworks" or whatever that gives +100% against anything.

O' course, they'll almost certainly keep the SAM Sites and Coastal Fortresses too, and I'd love to see "Security Centre" that protects against diplomats/spies, or perhaps Police Stations could have that effect ...

[LKendter]

Security center to protect against spies.

This was in SMAC. You had a wonder you could build that all but locked out spies. Can we get it here?

[Chinese American]

Now that the Chinese are Militaristic + Industrious, they will have a greater military force than before. City walls are almost negligible if you bring along catapults and cannons with your main assault army consisting of Riders. You don't need to bring Musketeers or Pikemen just to defend your stack. You can have your GA a little early by building Great Wall, or you can get one with the first Rider victorious battle. You can even decide to delay your GA and save it for late-game. If you decide to use Riders, during the Middle Ages, you are pretty much untouchable. Their 3 movement points allows them to patrol your kingdoms (via roads). If you go all the way with barracks and Sun Tzu, plus your Industrious bonus, Chinese should do pretty good.

[BaseballJones]

The Chinese are militaristic and industrious?! I thought that was the Romans. What gives? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[DonJoel]

i just dont hope that any civilization will have their special unit forever... im a little bit worried about the americans since there dont seem to be any other unit to make the f-15 obsolete.

[Graeme the mad]

Now i know your new here (ahhhhhh - look at dah little baby isnt he cute ) but Im going to start being nasty to you anyway - you hope that civs will have their spec untis forever.

Well I can see this one

ZUlu commander to impis - come on boys lets get working - see those tanks over there?Rush up and throw spears at them,

Impi - cant I join the mechanised infantry sir? they have nice trucks

Commander - No goddman you man, your a special unit, grab your spear and get to it

Oh yeah I hope special units last forever too

[DonJoel]

i missed the "dont" wiseguy.

[Graeme the mad]

Sorry, sorry, but it is quite a major mistake in that context

ne way welcome to the forum
if you want complain about me to the moderators and get me banned for being nasty to a newbie (or spamming considering ive posted twice in this post with nothing related to it) : it does give them something to do and they seem to enjoy it

[DonJoel]

Thanks an Hello!
I okay sent in the complaint expect to be delted within 2 days