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Old Nov 20, 2008, 06:33 AM   #61
General 666
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Hi Keroro!!!

General 666 reports back:

Really fun to play your scenario. Sadly I was getting totally out of history-line while playing. But I really wants to play it like Alexander has acted in history so I have to start again over.
Could you give me just a short checklist in which order I should concentrate my forces first and last?

!!! I could use a map with arrows drawn in where he moved along!!!
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Old Nov 20, 2008, 09:48 AM   #62
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Hi Keroro!!!

General 666 reports back:

Really fun to play your scenario. Sadly I was getting totally out of history-line while playing. But I really wants to play it like Alexander has acted in history so I have to start again over.
Could you give me just a short checklist in which order I should concentrate my forces first and last?

!!! I could use a map with arrows drawn in where he moved along!!!
Hi General. Nice to meet you.

Wikipedia has a few maps on their Alexander page that may help. This page has an animated map, though it doesn't have any place names so it's not that easy to follow. This or this may also help. Glad you've enjoyed it so far. Basically, keep pushing East.

@ - King Coltrane - I shall have to make India a lot more difficult then, more elephants and maybe a stats boost. I may also make a few other buildings act as bombardment defense, as that should slow down the advance, even if it doesn't stop it. I'm quite happy to hear that the League betrayed you, they shouldn't be too placid. Did the Spartans join in by any chance?
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Old Nov 20, 2008, 01:44 PM   #63
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The lions in Anatolia - I think there were a few left, though they weren't that widespread. They died out in Greece around 50 AD I think, I assumed a similar timeline for Turkey.
I didn't realize big predators survived for that long in that area. Very interesting. The thought of meeting an untethered lion in the days before rifles is very sobering... There is still a species of leopard in Israel, but it's very endangered.

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Murex - I can't really take credit for that, it was Virote Considon's idea.
Hats off to him, then! Murex was a major source of income & power for the Phoenicians for centuries & most people don't know about it. I'm still waiting for a mod that has murex as a luxury resource.

I found a couple of small pedia errors:

1. The entry for the Arabian Tribes unit says they are "early Muslim forces." As you know, this mod takes place centuries before Islam.

2. The pedia entry for the Thracian Barracks says it's called an "Agrianian Barracks" & that it produces an Agrianian. I haven't figured out what it actually produces, yet.

-I've just begun the conquest of Egypt in Week 1, 333. Gaza is mine. I rushing as fast as I can to found Alexandria & Alexander wants to march off to some temple in the Western Desert.

-My Battle of Issus took place just east of Sidon & Byblos when hordes of Persians showed up. I was far outnumbered & being hammered, but I managed to whittle away their numbers & gain the upper hand. Darius appeared toward the end of the battle. He was tough to kill so I'm worried about more of them spawning like Memnon did. I took Thapsacus from the Persians & could take more, but I'm concentrating on Egypt instead to follow the historical path of Alexander.

-I've taken all of the Phoenician cities that I can find. They must have an outpost hidden somewhere because they are not eliminated.

-I have a Phalanx & a Hypaspist leapfrogging through the remains of the Eastern Greeks. Miletus culture-flipped back to them so I had to reconquer it. They also mounted an attack on Tarsus that forced me to pull some troops back out of Phoenicia to repel. They have at least 2 cities left, but are really just an annoyance at this point. I shouldn't have much trouble mopping them up. Thrace & Illyira took Gordion before I could get to it.

-Kyrenaica declared war on me very early right after the Battle of Granicus, but they just bombarded me from ships & I made peace with them as soon as I could.

-I'm remaining peaceful with everyone I'm not in a locked war with though I got caught trying to plant a spy in Rome. I have been trading ROPs for their territory maps so I have a good idea what the western Med & some of Arabia looks like now. The Keltoi look like they could become quite powerful... Macedonia & Thrace & Illyria remain Trusting, but the rest of them are Cautious or Annoyed. I'm not ready to fight a war in the west, yet. Persia must pay for it's crimes!

Will return with more reports. I'm having a ton of fun with this mod!
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Old Nov 20, 2008, 03:50 PM   #64
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yeah those greek traitors were tough, but 40 or so kretan mercs have made short work of them. sparta didnt join but i think thats cause they are afraid. i have like 250 units at this point and they wouldnt dare attack... though i might soon conversely, i think germania is about to invade and so im fortifying my cities appropriately. Maurya is about to be attacked and though i dont imagine the war will take more than 20 turns, it will be a tough slog. i dont have artillery and im going to rely on those elephants to take out their forces. my strategy though is to beeline for Pataliputra and get rid of their wonder which gives forts... once that falls ill clean up the rest of their cities. after that i'd say Epirus and Macedon should probably look to their borders
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Old Nov 20, 2008, 05:30 PM   #65
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I may have some bugs, and I have some questions.

First off, Kyrenaica. In all the windows, there is a girl. But when you open diplomacy with that nation, it's a man.

Second, about the Civilopedia. Most of the info parts of articles are cut off at the bottom of the page, and clearly go on despite not seeing it. I would suggest putting what can't be fit on one page, into the "More" tab. like real civ entries?

Third, and a comment. What's up with Macedonia? At first they were "trusting", then several turns later, they're annoyed with me. Aren't they supposed to support me, and be friendly? O_O I didn't march through Macedonia, didn't ask for anything, etc. yet they're still getting pissy with me. Is this normal? Should I take Macedonia?
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Old Nov 21, 2008, 05:43 PM   #66
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Hi Keroro!

Big thanks for your links.
I have choosen the animated version of the map. Will view it in-game using Alt-Tabbing.
btw: There is a very good version with the city names and enlarged when you click on "The Big Map". Just in case you want return there to view it (I think it`s a very good map).


My biggest problem while playing is:

How to treat my neighbors in greece?

I have to conquer them first? I`m allready at war with multiple civs!?!
Must I really start a `little`world war?

So thanks again for your nice reply (help)
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Old Nov 21, 2008, 06:48 PM   #67
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@general: dont start a war with greece... they will betray you eventually anyway. just start off by going attacking the civ next to your army (Eastern Greeks iirc) and basically go south and east... remember your goal though: conquer persia (including Egypt, phoenecia, sogdiana, and bactria which i think are all technically vassals at this point in history.

@ keroro... Maurya is TOUGH! i made a mistake and decided to tackle them one city at a time and their forts are just shredding my army to pieces. i should have gotten a RoP with them and taken pataliputra first. oh and their elephants are just the defense forces, and are no threat. but yeah, its a SLOW conquest, especially with no nearby source of ranged units, its gonna take a while... meanwhile macedonia, greece, and epirus are all done. navarchs + greek fire + siege engineers + kretan mercs + blitz on their capital = massively fast conquest!
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Old Nov 22, 2008, 08:39 AM   #68
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Thanks for all the reports guys. I've uploaded a second small patch adjusting the game balance and fixing some bugs.

Spoiler:
Epic of Gilgamesh moved to Susa, Palace of Susa now has no tech requirement and can be built by the player if removed in conquest of city. Palace of Susa requires Epic of Gilgamesh, Proskynesis requires Palace of Susa.

Temples of Aphrodite and Zeus now reduce pollution.

Several pre-placed garrisons reassigned to improve Battle of Issus likelihood.

Several changes to civilopedia to clarify the intended direction for the player.

Thessalian Cavalry cost increased to 80 from 60.

Bactrian Cavalry available from the beginning, as long as a supply of Bactrians is available.

Greek cavalry no longer upgrades to Bactrian Cavalry.

Indian garrison defence increased from 3 to 4.

Pauravas Palace now auto-produces an Indian Elephant every 5 turns.

Bombardment defense added to Indian Gate and Watchtower improvements.

Archery strengths for archers available to the player have been lowered.

Bug with the Kyrenaica leaderhead fixed.


@ General - as King Coltrane says, don't pick a fight with the Greeks and Macks at the beginning. You're set at the beginning ready to push east into Eastern Greek territory. The mod was designed to start at the time when Alex had finished dealing with his problems with the Greeks. The Greeks may rise up against you sometime, but with a bit of diplomacy you should be able to keep them fairly happy.

I did post a suggestion of how to approach the first few turns on post 36.

@ King Coltrane - Glad to hear that Maurya didn't roll over. They should be too hard to take without dedicating a large amount of troops to your eastern borders, therefore leaving your other possesions less well defended. I think that with the high rate of fire the archers may be unbalancing things, so I've reduced their stats a bit in Patch 2.

@ geminisama - Thanks for letting me know about those problems. I've found the Kyrenaica problem, and have fixed it in Patch 2. The civilopedia cut offs I will have to have a look at over the weekend - it will take a while to fix them all, but you're right that it needs to be done.

Macedonia have remained pretty friendly in all the games I've played. You'll need to use all the normal tricks to keep them happy, like trading maps with them, getting a ROP agreement. Declaring war on civs they're at war with should help too.
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Old Nov 22, 2008, 08:55 AM   #69
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@ Maimonides - Glad you're enjoying it. It looks like you doing OK and getting in the spirit of things.
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Persia must pay for it's crimes!


Kyrenaica are designed to declare war, though they're unlikely to keep at it for long. I wanted to force them into war with the player, as they're technically one of the Persian Satrapies. I'm not sure where that mystery Phoenician city is, unless it's Samosata near the Eastern Greek border.

I'm considering making Murex a luxury if I do go ahead with a rearrangement of the resourses in the mod. That would be a pretty big re-design though, and I haven't the time at the moment.

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-My Battle of Issus took place just east of Sidon & Byblos when hordes of Persians showed up. I was far outnumbered & being hammered, but I managed to whittle away their numbers & gain the upper hand. Darius appeared toward the end of the battle. He was tough to kill so I'm worried about more of them spawning like Memnon did. I took Thapsacus from the Persians & could take more, but I'm concentrating on Egypt instead to follow the historical path of Alexander.
That's fairly historical. I'm pretty happy that the Persian armies seem to turn up at the right area for that battle quite consistently. There should be another Darius in time for the Battle of Gaugamela, if things go to plan.

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1. The entry for the Arabian Tribes unit says they are "early Muslim forces." As you know, this mod takes place centuries before Islam.
I had a look for this reference, but couldn't find it anywhere. Is it in a unit or a civilization entry?

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Originally Posted by Maimonides View Post
2. The pedia entry for the Thracian Barracks says it's called an "Agrianian Barracks" & that it produces an Agrianian. I haven't figured out what it actually produces, yet.
Fixed, thanks. The Thracian Barracks produces an Agrianoi (or Agrianian), civilopedia entry is now correct.
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Old Nov 25, 2008, 09:24 AM   #70
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Thanks for all the reports guys. I've uploaded a second small patch adjusting the game balance and fixing some bugs.
Thanks! It's great to see you are still interested & tweaking things. It's so depressing when a good mod is abandoned by it's creator.

I don't want to restart my current game so keep in mind my reports don't include the latest patch.

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I'm not sure where that mystery Phoenician city is, unless it's Samosata near the Eastern Greek border.
It was Samosata. It was hidden between the mountains, the Persians & the Eastern Greeks.

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I'm considering making Murex a luxury if I do go ahead with a rearrangement of the resourses in the mod. That would be a pretty big re-design though, and I haven't the time at the moment.
Understood. I'm just happy that it's included at all here.

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That's fairly historical. I'm pretty happy that the Persian armies seem to turn up at the right area for that battle quite consistently. There should be another Darius in time for the Battle of Gaugamela, if things go to plan.
He did return, but several weeks before Gaugamela in my game. He showed up outside Samosata after I took it & got killed attacking the phalanx I had there. I'm probably running behind the historical timeline though I took Egypt as fast as I could.

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I had a look for this reference, but couldn't find it anywhere. Is it in a unit or a civilization entry?
It's a unit called "Arabian Tribes." I 1st found it when I came upon Petra. The 2nd, description, page in the pedia for that unit refers to Islam. I checked the Units list in the pedia & it's there, too. I checked the other Arabian units' entries & they look OK.

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Originally Posted by Keroro View Post
Fixed, thanks. The Thracian Barracks produces an Agrianoi (or Agrianian), civilopedia entry is now correct.
Thank you!

And now another report! *trumpet fanfare*

-I saw Antipater's Phalanx! It marched past Alexandoupolis heading north towards the Danube. My best guess it that it's intention is to march all the way around the Black Sea. A steady stream of Macedonian units has been following. I'm now worried that they could beat me to Bactria or Sogdiana. I have to fight my way through Persia...

-Egypt has joined my growing empire! Alexander visited the oracle there & confirmed that he is indeed the son of Zeus. His poop still stinks, though. Nile Alexandria is founded! Now I am racing forces out of Egypt to continue to conquest of Persia.

I was suprised to find the Nubians beseiging Thebes when I got there! They took it before me the 1st time so I reloaded an auto-saved game. I also met Meroe. I was not expecting to find those civs in this mod. I can't wait to find more suprises! Now I see why you didn't list civs in the OP. Allot of the fun is exploration.

-The Eastern Greeks are eliminated. Gordium culture-flipped from Thrace/Illyria back to them so I was able to take it. Bad news is Thrace/Illyria took Iconium & razed one of their cities between Trapezous & Melitene. I didn't catch the name of the city & now I'm wondering what cool Wonder might have been lost there.

-I'm sending Sarissaophoroi exploring in all directions. One is exploring Africa beyond Egypt. Two are mapping northern Europe. One that was exploring Arabia met a ship from Maurya so I have contact with them now & their territory map.

-Concerning Persia, the forces that I had in Anatolia & Egypt are now converging in Phoenicia & resuming the fight against them. Thrace/Illyria got ahead of me & razed Resaina so I hade to revert to an auto-save to prevent that. Resaina is mine in Week 49, 333 & Nisibis will fall next week. Then on to Arbela.

-I am behind in Techs. I am six Turns from Egyptian Surrender, but Egypt was eliminated a few Turns ago.

The more I discover in this mod, the more I like it! I wish I had tried it earlier. More reports to come.
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Old Nov 25, 2008, 10:25 AM   #71
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He did return, but several weeks before Gaugamela in my game. He showed up outside Samosata after I took it & got killed attacking the phalanx I had there. I'm probably running behind the historical timeline though I took Egypt as fast as I could.
That's not too bad in fact, it was approximately the right time after all! I know that Pinktilapia had massive problems getting Hannibal to turn up at the right time and right place while developing RFRE, so I've just got a little tweaking to do.

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It's a unit called "Arabian Tribes." I 1st found it when I came upon Petra. The 2nd, description, page in the pedia for that unit refers to Islam. I checked the Units list in the pedia & it's there, too. I checked the other Arabian units' entries & they look OK.
I'll try to track that down. Civilopedia errors are easy to fix, and they don't break saved games either, so I'll put a small update on for that.

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-I saw Antipater's Phalanx! It marched past Alexandoupolis heading north towards the Danube. My best guess it that it's intention is to march all the way around the Black Sea. A steady stream of Macedonian units has been following. I'm now worried that they could beat me to Bactria or Sogdiana. I have to fight my way through Persia...
Hmm, those restless Macedonians don't want to sit still do they? I never saw Antipater go walkabout in all my playtests. I'll have to flag him as defensive or something like that. He should be sitting still in the early game.

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Originally Posted by Maimonides View Post
-Egypt has joined my growing empire! Alexander visited the oracle there & confirmed that he is indeed the son of Zeus. His poop still stinks, though. Nile Alexandria is founded! Now I am racing forces out of Egypt to continue to conquest of Persia.

I was suprised to find the Nubians beseiging Thebes when I got there! They took it before me the 1st time so I reloaded an auto-saved game. I also met Meroe. I was not expecting to find those civs in this mod. I can't wait to find more suprises! Now I see why you didn't list civs in the OP. Allot of the fun is exploration.
Egypt is a very rich province once it's been built up a bit, so get some slaves down there. I've always noticed that the Nubians would hit the Egyptians pretty hard, it's rather annoying. There's a difficult balance between making Egypt easy to take for the player (historically, the player should be able to gain control of Egypt easily) and making it too easy to take for the Nubians. I may have to reduce the units that Nubia start with or put them in a forced alliance.

The way the Merotes are depicted in this scenario may not be totally historical, but I wanted a power that would present a challenge in the late game if you decide to push into Africa. I think that the availability of units has forced me into making the Merotes look more 1st or 2nd century than 3rd Century BCE.

I recently came accross a story (on wikipedia, so not sure if it's perfectly genuine) that tells of Alexander coming to the borders of Nubia after conquering Egypt, seeing their army (along with war elephants), and deciding to turn back. It's clearly a fake tale since Alex's aim was always to get Persia, but it makes an interesting image in my mind.

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The more I discover in this mod, the more I like it! I wish I had tried it earlier. More reports to come.
Thank you sir. It's not been out that long in fact - I wish I had got into modding earlier and could have released it earlier.
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Old Nov 25, 2008, 05:41 PM   #72
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Hi Keroro!
With your and King Coltranes help things has become more real (historical).

But I still have this problem:
From the first turn on I wanted to conquer Byzantium (strategical important for my supply-lines in this campaign) but not want go to war with them.

Do anybody know how I can have this city without going to war?
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Old Nov 25, 2008, 07:10 PM   #73
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Give yourself it via the editor. But remember to remove the units there, or you won't be able to use the city.
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Old Nov 25, 2008, 07:27 PM   #74
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Give yourself it via the editor. But remember to remove the units there, or you won't be able to use the city.
Thanks for the hint but I allways feel like cheating solving my problems via the Editor! But thanks for replying.
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Old Nov 25, 2008, 07:29 PM   #75
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But not having Byzantium is part of the game. If you want it, you have to go to war.... unless bribing is an option.
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Old Nov 26, 2008, 12:51 AM   #76
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Ok, I was really enjoying playing this a while back and had taken a few notes with the intention of adding to them, unfortunately I haven't gotten back to it for various reasons so I'll go ahead and post them. Just odds and ends, not necessarily bugs.

- it's intriguing that one has to chop down a forest in order to reap the benefits of the lumber resource. Doesn't need to be changed necessarily, just interesting, I'm assuming mostly for gameplay?

- the Aegean is SCARY.

- AI garrisons won't fortify. This is, of course, due to their immobility but if you wanted to give them the same advantage as the human you could possibly upgrade their def. by 50% (or maybe less, in any case it could be damaging to gameplay ...)

- pontic infantry unit_32 has transparency issues.

- seeing as the 'mines' aren't exactly mines maybe change the command in the editor (or maybe it was something in the script.txt, like when the worker finishes a job; I forget exactly what it was)

- It would be really nice to have all the units organized to make it easier to compare stats in the build menu. Gramphos' has a very easy to use unit organizer in his Civ3 MultiTool.

- Alchemy is now a capital offense, punished by public execution.
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Old Nov 26, 2008, 02:00 PM   #77
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Hi Keroro!
With your and King Coltranes help things has become more real (historical).

But I still have this problem:
From the first turn on I wanted to conquer Byzantium (strategical important for my supply-lines in this campaign) but not want go to war with them.

Do anybody know how I can have this city without going to war?
Hi General.

As geminisama says, you can do that via the editor. But as againsttheflow says, it's not meant to be taken so early and I don't think you really need it. You should be able to keep peace with Thrace so that your resources can be traded through Byzantium, and it would only take a couple of transport ships to keep your troops shuttling accross from Europe to Asia. Thrace starts out immune to propaganda, but they may change governments later and become susceptible.

@ againsttheflow - thanks for posting your thoughts anyway. I know that it's not always possible to keep playing an involved game like civ when there are so many other things on. You have spotted a couple of potential problems I can sort out - thanks.

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- it's intriguing that one has to chop down a forest in order to reap the benefits of the lumber resource. Doesn't need to be changed necessarily, just interesting, I'm assuming mostly for gameplay?
A possible bug, but if I do change the way the resources are organised then this won't be a problem. For now think of it as having to clear some of the less useful trees before being able to harvest the quality timber in the old forest growths.

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- the Aegean is SCARY.
Huh? Are the Phoenicians causing you trouble?

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Originally Posted by againsttheflow View Post
- AI garrisons won't fortify. This is, of course, due to their immobility but if you wanted to give them the same advantage as the human you could possibly upgrade their def. by 50% (or maybe less, in any case it could be damaging to gameplay ...)
You're right about the garrisons, and you may be right about needing to increase their defence values too. A 5 or 6 defence value for these would be about right.

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- pontic infantry unit_32 has transparency issues.
Darn. I'll sort it for the first big patch. Thanks for spotting that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by againsttheflow View Post
- seeing as the 'mines' aren't exactly mines maybe change the command in the editor (or maybe it was something in the script.txt, like when the worker finishes a job; I forget exactly what it was)
There's an entry in the editor itself for this I think. You can still build mines on the highlands terrain, I'm not sure what to rename it as that will make sense both on highlands and forests. Any ideas?

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- It would be really nice to have all the units organized to make it easier to compare stats in the build menu. Gramphos' has a very easy to use unit organizer in his Civ3 MultiTool.
I did order them at one point, though I had to move things around a bit since then. I'll try and see if I can re-order them for a future release.

I'm waiting to see if Steph's attempt at making a new editor works out too, it could be most useful.

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- Alchemy is now a capital offense, punished by public execution.
Again... huh?
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Old Nov 27, 2008, 12:20 AM   #78
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Is there any way to get a road on the 2 desert tiles between Pelusium, and Gaza? I see roads on some desert, but none of my workers can even go on desert tiles. :/
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Old Nov 27, 2008, 01:14 AM   #79
Lord_Megahertz
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where did u get this awesome map???
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Try Pinktilapia's awesome mod about the Roman Empire. Or try Keroro's great mod about Alexander the Great.
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Old Nov 27, 2008, 03:49 PM   #80
againsttheflow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroro View Post
Huh? Are the Phoenicians causing you trouble?
It's been a while so I don't remember the exact details, I just remember immediately trying to enforce naval restrictions around my cities right from the get-go and failing miserably. A whole fleet of [nice] ships, I forget who's, headed through 'my' straight up to the Black Sea. It got to the point that even though my coastal fortress type improvement was nailing them I couldn't do much to finish them off (this was very early game). Whenever I moved my ships I made sure they ended turn in port. I was trying this leapfrog method when I found a spot around southeastern Aisia minor that I would have to leave my two vessels (full of units) in open waters. I glanced around, made sure I was as far as possible out of possible shipping routes, and hit spacebare. Next turn Alexander had two fewer ships...
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