ALC Game #25: Celts/Boudica, Take 2

Simple question to all those advocating CR2 or guerilla3 units: how do you imagine producing them? Even with a charismatic leader, your units will only get 3 xp out of the gates.

@JujuLautre
Killing 1 barb or 1 animal should do it. Granted, only a few units might get this. (But since this is Immortal, barbs should be around).

I'd suggest giving every gallic a G2 promotion. If you're suiciding them against skirmishers no matter the promotion, why not go down the G3 tree. Once you get several G3's they quickly become G3-CR's, which are about the strongest unit in the game, upgradable all the way to mech infantry. If an early G3 dies, a G2 quickly wins a battle to take the place. This promotion route snowballs into a very strong army because your losses are so much less than usual.

Then there's the whole aspect of movement speed over hills. Getting to a city before it whips new defenders is a huge advantage. Not to mention the AI workers not realizing you can hop over hills. And you have a reasonable shot at taking a 3-4 defenders city without siege with reasonable losses if necessary.

Give the G3's a shot. It's one of those things thats better tried then justifying on paper. On the overall picture I'd vote 3 city gallic rush on Mansa, research IW, writing, kill Mansa, crawl towards CoL.

GO G3 Gallics I dont want to see Gallics with CR it doesn't kind of fit
@Dhaulagiri
are you from Nepal ?

Even with agg and cover you're not set up for swords against skirmishers. You don't have enough food, production, and earliness. It will be too late.

I'd grab pigs/dyes to control the dotmap and make sure mansa doesn't get into your back yard.

Pig/Dyes as a blocking city is definitely a priority, which means IW (and perhaps calendar) is also a priority. I would plan for a sword/axe/catapult assault on Mansa.

assass1n said:

GO G3 Gallics I dont want to see Gallics with CR it doesn't kind of fit
@Dhaulagiri
are you from Nepal ?

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Nope, but I'd like to visit some day. The first couple names I tried to register with were taken so went with a sure fire untaken name.

Great to see you back, Sisiutil.

From the look of things Mansa's not researched BW or he'd not have farmed over his copper. He's got two grassland farms and a food resource, so can run two scientists. It's been 26 turns since he asked for open borders and mist be about to finish alphabet any turn now and pop a great person. Being his best buddy for awhile can't hurt.

Farming two of your grassland tiles, would enable two of those hills to be mined or, if you trade for writing et al and build a library, run a scientist or two.

Lincon has 4 gold mines to go after, one of which is already in his second city's borders, which ought to make him number 1 target. Whilst you research IW, finish off Henge, you could still turn out a reasonable number of axes and spearmen to go after the archer/chariots of Lincoln. By the time you've conquered Lincoln, the pig city ought to have nearly finished off the Palace.

Scarredroman said:

Great to see you back, Sisiutil.

From the look of things Mansa's not researched BW or he'd not have farmed over his copper.

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What makes you think the AI is that logical?! .

Crowqueen said:

What makes you think the AI is that logical?! .

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Automated workers love hooking up resources, especially those that provide more powerful units.

However, an easier way to determine whether Mansa has BW yet is whether he's in Slavery.

This is on the second page.
When is the next round coming up ?

As he's mentioned (a couple of times), updates will be coming more slowly. Patience is a virtue.

As Boudica I would be hoping to let Mansa build a few things first (including a shrine and some wonders). I'd be a tad concerned about those 4 gold mines to the south, were they to fall into Lincoln's hands. Not sure if the Mali will get there before the Americans, but you are gonna really want these at some point. Mansa doesn't pose a military threat to Boudica unless the out-teching becomes ridiculous, and you've got a long time before that happens. If you're gonna wait for iron, it might be the Americans you'd want to rush rather than the Mali (esp. if they take any barb cities near the rainforest border). As Boudica with an iron-working UU, you have to iron rush someone (or even bronze rush someone), but keep your options open until the moment you actually launch the attack.

Dhaulagiri said:

I'd suggest giving every gallic a G2 promotion. If you're suiciding them against skirmishers no matter the promotion, why not go down the G3 tree. Once you get several G3's they quickly become G3-CR's, which are about the strongest unit in the game, upgradable all the way to mech infantry. If an early G3 dies, a G2 quickly wins a battle to take the place. This promotion route snowballs into a very strong army because your losses are so much less than usual.

Then there's the whole aspect of movement speed over hills. Getting to a city before it whips new defenders is a huge advantage. Not to mention the AI workers not realizing you can hop over hills. And you have a reasonable shot at taking a 3-4 defenders city without siege with reasonable losses if necessary.

Give the G3's a shot. It's one of those things thats better tried then justifying on paper. On the overall picture I'd vote 3 city gallic rush on Mansa, research IW, writing, kill Mansa, crawl towards CoL.

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I think this is sound; a good way to utilize the UU. G3 maces, G3 Rifles, G3 infantry... dead neighbors everywhere

Dhaulagiri said:

I'd suggest giving every gallic a G2 promotion. If you're suiciding them against skirmishers no matter the promotion, why not go down the G3 tree. Once you get several G3's they quickly become G3-CR's, which are about the strongest unit in the game, upgradable all the way to mech infantry. If an early G3 dies, a G2 quickly wins a battle to take the place. This promotion route snowballs into a very strong army because your losses are so much less than usual.

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I'm playing my very own Boudica game (not on Immortal level), and I can second this suggestion. G3 units are unbelievably cool in practice. Even when they lose, if they manage to withdraw, they will still gain experience. Since you're Charismatic, that experience will add up quickly, and you'll have some seriously highly-promoted units in the field. I have one Combat II Guerrilla III City Raider III Infantry who started his life as a G3 Gallic Warrior. Yeah, baby!

Go, go, Guerrilla!

Sis,
I’ve been following the ALC for months and it has helped me improve my game very much. All your effort is greatly appreciated as well as the insights of the other contributors.
IMO:
Chop/ Build/whip axes – this should go quick with the amount of forests you have and using all three of your workers. You don’t need to build anymore cities right now.
Take Timbuktu ASAP before it pops another boarder. Make it a limited war if you need to. (From following the other ALCs I know you’re not a big fan of limited wars but I do think it has value by getting you off the pensile and onto the other side of the jungles which you then can backfill when you’re ready to clear it). Mansa can still be very useful to you even if you take his capital. He’ll remain viable and will still trade with you in short time (until you finish him off later).
After the war make nice and REX whatever territory is left.
I would forgo wonders for REXing and you’ll have a very nice empire at that point.
Tech to grow economy.

Again, Thanks for the schooling

Agree with war against Mansa Musa. However, do a complete war. After all, you're Boudica!

I too enjoy the ALC, everyone does!

Welcome to the Forums, flush.

flush said:

Sis,
I’ve been following the ALC for months and it has helped me improve my game very much. All your effort is greatly appreciated as well as the insights of the other contributors.
IMO:
Chop/ Build/whip axes – this should go quick with the amount of forests you have and using all three of your workers. You don’t need to build anymore cities right now.
Take Timbuktu ASAP before it pops another boarder. Make it a limited war if you need to. (From following the other ALCs I know you’re not a big fan of limited wars but I do think it has value by getting you off the pensile and onto the other side of the jungles which you then can backfill when you’re ready to clear it). Mansa can still be very useful to you even if you take his capital. He’ll remain viable and will still trade with you in short time (until you finish him off later).
After the war make nice and REX whatever territory is left.
I would forgo wonders for REXing and you’ll have a very nice empire at that point.
Tech to grow economy.

Again, Thanks for the schooling

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Welcome to the forums flush. Yes, Sis was my main inspiration for both signing up to the forums and getting back onto the civilization saddle.

Also, looking forward to the destruction Sis, bring the pain on that hippie

Round 3: 2125 BC to 1525 BC (24 turns)

As the round opened, I decided to pursue more of a warmonger's path and changed research from Writing to Iron Working before I'd invested any beakers into the latter.



I also had a mind, however, to founding my third city beside the spices, gems, and fish, so IW would enable me to clear the jungle on the gem tile. This more or less committed me to using the UU for my wars, which meant I'd also decided to give myself time to build at least one more city. C'mon, gems are hard to pass up.

Once Vienne finished a Work Boat, I started on a Granary to promote the city's growth.



Meanwhile, other civs were pursuing Writing even if I wasn't.



This in turn led to Confucianism spreading to me.



I haven't converted yet; I preferred to wait until after IW was done. Nevertheless, this is something I'd hoped for, allowing me to retain good relations with the more distant neighbours (Wang Kon and Zara Yazob) while I war on those closer (Mansa and Lincoln).

Speaking of our favourite tech fiend, he was still madly pursuing techs--evidently at the expense of basic worker techs.



Instead of Archery, however, I decided to go after bigger game. It didn't come cheap, but I think it was worth it.



Around this time, I realized that I'd be aching to use the whip soon, so I did a quick civics change.



With a Worker and another Axeman completed in the capital, I then started in on a Settler for city #3.



I built a road to the proposed site, and also chopped the forest that was on the tile. I didn't always do this, but hammers are always valuable, so I now make an effort in all my games to chop a forest if one exists on one of my proposed city sites. Even if it's only something like 9 hammers, that's still 9 hammers and perhaps a turn or two saved.

On the lasts turn of the round, I finished researching Iron Working, thus enabling the unique unit.



For those of you wondering, Iron is available in two places nearby, one to the north (as many of you expected), and one to the southeast.



Remember that Gallic Warriors do not need iron to be built; copper will suffice. Thus, there's no huge rush to settle near either iron source. (Yes, you can also see I managed to do a little exploring of Sitting Bull's land mass with the Work Boat before Vienne's borders popped to make the fish tile available. Already you can see that SB has a couple of resources on his continent that don't appear to be available on mine.)

Meanwhile, Lincoln also has Alphabet. He is running Hereditary Rule, so I suspect he traded that to Mansa for it. He'll give me the following deal:



What do you think, is it worthwhile?

Other decision points:

• Should I stick with the gem/fish/spice site for city #3 or switch to an iron site? I'm leaning to sticking to the original plan, given the lack of urgency around claiming a source of iron.
• Research--this is really why I stopped here. I was thinking of researching Aesthetics next. Why? Mainly because it's usually a very good tech to use in order to obtain Alphabet. (Though I usually have to combine it with something else or research part of Alphabet to make it work.) It will take 31 turns. I could withhold IW from Lincoln until it's done, hoping to obtain Alphabet from him for Aesthetics and IW, but 31 turns is a long time. Chances are he'll either get IW from someone else or research it on his own in that time. So I'm inclined to go for the trade above, since it should help with the economy.
• War: okay, I've left the rush a little late. But I want to see if Gallic Warriors, combined with the withdrawal chances they get once they get to Guerilla III, will make up for that. Thoughts?

I would say go for the iron city, and then rush as soon as possible. Maybe you can get some techs when you sue for peace?