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Old Jul 29, 2009, 12:55 PM   #1
MorteEterna
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New Americans Strategy

Americans:

Bonuses:

Start: Great Person free
Ancient: 2% interest
Medieval: 1/2 cost to rush units
Industrial: +1 food from plans
Modern: x3 production factories


This is my american strategy here, and here is what you should do with your starting great people (GP):

Great Artist: Explore then sell it if you need gold to rush the horsemen, or just wait if there are civilizations like zulu to flip a capital. I prefer to wait and flip a city and get free untis there.
Great Leader: Explore then settle it. It will be good to use in medieval era but remember that you will get this maybe 1/100 times
Great Humanitarian: Explore then sell it if needed, or get the growth bonus/+1 population. I suggest to build at least 5-6 cities then use the +1 bonus, it's much better than only 50% growth.
Great Scientist: No, don't use it at the start. Work on 2 forests, for 5 turns, while you explore with it. Then, come back and rush horseback riding; with the gold you got, you will have a horsemen unit (in 5 turns) and maybe another one, really good I think. Another strategy is to explore with it while working on horseback riding after you rushed the first warrior. Then rush code of laws and expand.
Great Explorer: Rush two warriors while you work on horseback riding, you will get 2 villages in 3 turns usually (4000 BC first warrior, 3900 BC second warrior, then you get time to explore). If you want explore and use it later, while working on 2 water tiles and horseback riding
Great Builder: Work on horseback riding, explore with this and after you got horseback riding, rush a horsemen unit if you want. You can also wait if you explored enough or you can use it at the start rushing a galley and exploring with the militia (it's still 30 gold while you need 40 for an horsemen unit)

No, this isn't based on the early rush, in fact, I know that now they are really good expanders, and if you want to, you can build cities like a crazy while you get a lot of gold. This is easy to do:

When you reach medieval era, getting which technologies you want, work on 1 grassland and 2 water tiles (gold) until you are in despotism.

After 4 turns, rush the settler, you will have the gold you need to (4*4=16 gold), and counting you get also the 2% interest, it will save you.
Then, rush new cities and new cities, and you won't have problems about defence. Keep producing gold until you are sure to out tech the enemy, or just work on few cities on science to follow him while you expand. When you get navigation, if you are not winning, build a lot of settlers and expand on islands.

By doing this, you don't need libraries and can stay on fundamentalism if you want, because you will have a huge technology really fast. I played against zulu players and I destroyed them (people like Kyoday GT4).

If you need a tech tree to follow, that's what you need:

Horseback riding
Bronze working (normally)
Pottery
Masonry
Irrigation
Alphabet
Writing
Code of Laws

I won't tell you everything, but remember that Monarchy is a key technology, giving you a great person.
Then follow whatever you want. You can get currency, or go for knights, you can rush a lot of them if you need, but if you want to do that, be careful about the technologies and try to rush them before industrial era. Other good technologies are Industrialization and Corporation. More cities you get, more gold you got to use.

I know this is a bit based on horsemen rush, but I will try to add new things soon. Tell me where you are having problems and I will try to answer you or add new things here.
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 02:45 AM   #2
soprismb
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Can I ask you why you're suddenly hung up on Horseback riding as an early tech? Respectfully, I'm just curious. For my money it's the last of the four techs up front to work. With America it seems like the better strategy is to take your GP, wait with him for something special (like say Literacy if he's a scientist or Great Wall if he's a Builder) and then gradually play for an end game victory. America is geared more for later turns than ancients, right? Wouldn't you then recommend to play to your Civs strengths and not your preferences as a player. You may be an early rusher--but that doesn't suit America at all, does it? With America you want guard your units well and then play for a late boom.

I'm asking--you're the expert on this. I'm a diety player (no where near your caliber probably) and that's how I win with Lincoln. In much the same way I wouldn't advise the Zulu to go for a late science boom I wouldn't advise a production powerhouse like America to play for an early win. It's like sex on prom night playing with America: you know it's going to be ugly, sloppy and longer than you thought, but you should come out okay in the end if you play your cards right.
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 04:58 AM   #3
MorteEterna
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Originally Posted by soprismb View Post
Can I ask you why you're suddenly hung up on Horseback riding as an early tech? Respectfully, I'm just curious. For my money it's the last of the four techs up front to work. With America it seems like the better strategy is to take your GP, wait with him for something special (like say Literacy if he's a scientist or Great Wall if he's a Builder) and then gradually play for an end game victory. America is geared more for later turns than ancients, right? Wouldn't you then recommend to play to your Civs strengths and not your preferences as a player. You may be an early rusher--but that doesn't suit America at all, does it? With America you want guard your units well and then play for a late boom.

I'm asking--you're the expert on this. I'm a diety player (no where near your caliber probably) and that's how I win with Lincoln. In much the same way I wouldn't advise the Zulu to go for a late science boom I wouldn't advise a production powerhouse like America to play for an early win. It's like sex on prom night playing with America: you know it's going to be ugly, sloppy and longer than you thought, but you should come out okay in the end if you play your cards right.
The best strategy with americans is horse rushing, and it usually works much better, and rushing literacy with a GS is a waste, like using the GB for a great wall, while you can use it for east india company or better wonders. Why end game victory then? Not everybody wants to play a 2 hour long game, and I'm suggesting here the BEST way, not just what I prefer. What late boom? The best bonuses are until medieval era, then you get only x3 factory production if you want to use it and you can
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 06:29 PM   #4
soprismb
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I don't know Morte, I consider a two hour game a short game...I like analyzing the intricate parts of the game.

As far as America goes, I think you're downplaying the late boom with them. If you get the communism bonus you're getting x3 factories for 134 production. That to me is about as unbeatable as it comes. Further, if you can steal or maybe hold off on using a GB, then and then you can get Military Industrial, you're basically unbeatable in the modern era. There is no other civ that can match that type of production. Towards the end of the game you should be cranking out an army per turn per city with the Yanks. With that power you can basically choose when you want to win and by what way.

Really, I'm not arguing with you because you're the expert but I think we've had this conversation before--about playing to the CIVs strengths and not your own preferences.

Plus, I just don't think the odds are there for you with horseman. You're even up with archer armies. you get between 9-12 points for veterans (12 if you're on a hill) which is exactly what archers in cities with barracks have. You're basically battling even up odds. Further, if you rush horseback riding you won't get the +1 irrigation bonus because either Egypt will have it by then or someone else like China will. Further, your horserush will NOT work against the English. Period. The first thing the English learn should be bronze working which means they'll already have veteran, +1 long bow archers who are basically pikemen. FURTHER, if you're playing the Greeks your theory won't work either because they've got pikemen to start.
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Old Aug 04, 2009, 08:03 PM   #5
Sn1p3rk1ll3
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Who said you go after them?
Look, if you play a full game, but you have an extra capital from the start of the game, it sure smoothens the further path, and you'll have one civ less to 'worry' about.

And about the trippled production....Aztecs can beat it :P
Capital on hill, wall, spy rings, fortified veteran modern infantry having loyalty, engineer and leadership, a great general, and next to the city one tile of water containing a battleship fleet (veteran and aztec).
-Only a nuke beats that

anyways, the trippled factories is indeed extremely powerfull, turning all cities in Łber production powerhouses and enabling you to get any wonder you want in no time at all!
Just so you don't forget, you only get the trippled production from factories in the modern era, so you have to survive there first!

And that's why a horse rush can delay your oponents shouldn't you want an early domination for some reason...


BUT, and that but's for Morte, I do have to say a horse rush is risky...

If you play against people who make quick galleys and sail off to their islands, or if you have those pesky zulu/arab neighbours....
I don't do a horseback-rush every game, and I prefer a quick and safe expansion, and use a catapult siege a bit later (slower, but effective!).
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Old Aug 05, 2009, 01:13 AM   #6
MorteEterna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soprismb View Post
I don't know Morte, I consider a two hour game a short game...I like analyzing the intricate parts of the game.

As far as America goes, I think you're downplaying the late boom with them. If you get the communism bonus you're getting x3 factories for 134 production. That to me is about as unbeatable as it comes. Further, if you can steal or maybe hold off on using a GB, then and then you can get Military Industrial, you're basically unbeatable in the modern era. There is no other civ that can match that type of production. Towards the end of the game you should be cranking out an army per turn per city with the Yanks. With that power you can basically choose when you want to win and by what way.

Really, I'm not arguing with you because you're the expert but I think we've had this conversation before--about playing to the CIVs strengths and not your own preferences.

Plus, I just don't think the odds are there for you with horseman. You're even up with archer armies. you get between 9-12 points for veterans (12 if you're on a hill) which is exactly what archers in cities with barracks have. You're basically battling even up odds. Further, if you rush horseback riding you won't get the +1 irrigation bonus because either Egypt will have it by then or someone else like China will. Further, your horserush will NOT work against the English. Period. The first thing the English learn should be bronze working which means they'll already have veteran, +1 long bow archers who are basically pikemen. FURTHER, if you're playing the Greeks your theory won't work either because they've got pikemen to start.
Uhm, if you can tell me a way how to defend with an archer army in few turns.. Uhm, I would like to know. You come here saying "hey, this isn't going to work" when I played Americans so much, and I think I've got enough experience to write a strategy. If you look at the Mega city strategy, you can still find everything about the late era if you don't count the Mega city strategy. If I am playing the Greeks, I won't have problems. I won't have problems killing Egypt unless they are lucky or have colossus/hanging gardens and start building archers everywhere. English are not a problem.

Maybe you can't realize that I usually have this first horse army in 10 turns nex to a capital. Once, I have been lucky and had a horsemen army built in 4 turns and in 6 turns I took the chinese ( a top player ).
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Old Aug 05, 2009, 01:16 AM   #7
MorteEterna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn1p3rk1ll3 View Post
Who said you go after them?
Look, if you play a full game, but you have an extra capital from the start of the game, it sure smoothens the further path, and you'll have one civ less to 'worry' about.

And about the trippled production....Aztecs can beat it :P
Capital on hill, wall, spy rings, fortified veteran modern infantry having loyalty, engineer and leadership, a great general, and next to the city one tile of water containing a battleship fleet (veteran and aztec).
-Only a nuke beats that

anyways, the trippled factories is indeed extremely powerfull, turning all cities in Łber production powerhouses and enabling you to get any wonder you want in no time at all!
Just so you don't forget, you only get the trippled production from factories in the modern era, so you have to survive there first!

And that's why a horse rush can delay your oponents shouldn't you want an early domination for some reason...


BUT, and that but's for Morte, I do have to say a horse rush is risky...

If you play against people who make quick galleys and sail off to their islands, or if you have those pesky zulu/arab neighbours....
I don't do a horseback-rush every game, and I prefer a quick and safe expansion, and use a catapult siege a bit later (slower, but effective!).
You can beat Aztecs before they have got all that, and remember, probabilities beat good defence. If I attack with 50 bomber wings, I will win at least once, pretty simple. It's only an example. Americans don't have problems in medieval era, only a really strong rush can beat them, and overrunning them is the only thing you can do if they started balanced. I play with the CIV STRENGHTS, not my preferences. Horse rush is not risky, you have to know how to do iit. It's really powerful and you can use it to press then sell it later in medieval era. You can take AI's with it, this is simple to do.
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Old Aug 05, 2009, 06:43 PM   #8
GGrayson
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This strategy works because it get to the other capitals before they have archer armies. Usually they won't have archer armies before 2000BC, and your horsemen should have an easy time picking up 1 or 2 caps.

Once you practice this strategy, you should have your horsearmy about 80-90% of the time by 3000BC. Sometimes you can have 2 armies by 3000BC or better, but that's a very lucky game.

Don't be shy about rushing another civ early, you will probably be terrible at it when you try if for the first few times, then you'll get the hang of it.

besides, the true power of the Americans is not the horserush anyway, it's the halfcost units that are really 1/3 cost units, you get to republic really fast and cover the map with cities in the BC. It's pretty easy to get 20 cities in the BC once you have practiced it enough.
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Old Aug 05, 2009, 10:50 PM   #9
soprismb
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Dude, easy, Morte. For the 9,384th time, I'm not arguing with you. It's your fiefdom here and I respect that. I also respect the horserush strategy and, indeed, if you play with them a lot and it works for you, I'll take your word for. Dude, calm down. Again, you're the guy who plays this game non-stop--I'm sure your info is good info.

I haven't played with America in a long time (I'm putting the finishing touches on the 64 wins at Deity first). That said, you're again, better suited for it than me.

But I'm an odds guy.

I believe that even odds as an attacker is a very risky proposition. It's why I like the game so much--it's a fundamental assessement of warfare. It lets you know how risk averse you are. That said, I like America's chances better in the end game. They are clearly not like the Germans, Aztecs, Zulu.

HERE IS WHAT I'VE FOUND WORKS WITH AMERICA:

Obviously, you want to make a b-line straight towards the usual techs early on. Try and get a feeling for what your opponents are doing. If you're playing China for example, you know that they're two techs ahead of you, don't bother with irrigation...they're going to get it. Instead focus on getting Republic as fast as possible.

Work your way towards Currency and THEN go for the 250/bonus as banking. THEN you want to be the first to get the two +5/gold bonuses in industrialization.

Then corporation.

Use your great builder for the Military Industrial Complex.

Start cranking out factory after factory BEFORE you rush anything. Try and get to 1000 gold as quick as possible because with the +2 plains bonus, you'll have 4 in plains and then you can have a lot of flexibility.

So basically my opinion is that for a domination victory, you have to act like an economic powerhouse if you're america. You want to have the ability to get 100 gold/turn for doing nothing (interest bonus). That way you can just pound out unit after mother fu k ing unit and you're unstoppable.

Again, dude, I'm not stealing your thunder. Contrary. I think you have an excellent point. I just think what makes this game SOOOO much fun is that you can't just say, "Horserushing works every time" or "Knights ALWAYS work". It's such a well designed game that you have to make adjustments on the fly.

And again, I stand by what we orginally talked about on an earlier thread. It's more important to play to your CIVs strengths than your own personal preferences. I think you'd agree with that.

Best wishes
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Old Aug 06, 2009, 01:22 AM   #10
MorteEterna
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Originally Posted by soprismb View Post
Dude, easy, Morte. For the 9,384th time, I'm not arguing with you. It's your fiefdom here and I respect that. I also respect the horserush strategy and, indeed, if you play with them a lot and it works for you, I'll take your word for. Dude, calm down. Again, you're the guy who plays this game non-stop--I'm sure your info is good info.

I haven't played with America in a long time (I'm putting the finishing touches on the 64 wins at Deity first). That said, you're again, better suited for it than me.

But I'm an odds guy.

I believe that even odds as an attacker is a very risky proposition. It's why I like the game so much--it's a fundamental assessement of warfare. It lets you know how risk averse you are. That said, I like America's chances better in the end game. They are clearly not like the Germans, Aztecs, Zulu.

HERE IS WHAT I'VE FOUND WORKS WITH AMERICA:

Obviously, you want to make a b-line straight towards the usual techs early on. Try and get a feeling for what your opponents are doing. If you're playing China for example, you know that they're two techs ahead of you, don't bother with irrigation...they're going to get it. Instead focus on getting Republic as fast as possible.

Work your way towards Currency and THEN go for the 250/bonus as banking. THEN you want to be the first to get the two +5/gold bonuses in industrialization.

Then corporation.

Use your great builder for the Military Industrial Complex.

Start cranking out factory after factory BEFORE you rush anything. Try and get to 1000 gold as quick as possible because with the +2 plains bonus, you'll have 4 in plains and then you can have a lot of flexibility.

So basically my opinion is that for a domination victory, you have to act like an economic powerhouse if you're america. You want to have the ability to get 100 gold/turn for doing nothing (interest bonus). That way you can just pound out unit after mother fu k ing unit and you're unstoppable.

Again, dude, I'm not stealing your thunder. Contrary. I think you have an excellent point. I just think what makes this game SOOOO much fun is that you can't just say, "Horserushing works every time" or "Knights ALWAYS work". It's such a well designed game that you have to make adjustments on the fly.

And again, I stand by what we orginally talked about on an earlier thread. It's more important to play to your CIVs strengths than your own personal preferences. I think you'd agree with that.

Best wishes
Uhm, I think I said go read the MEGA CITY STRATEGY, it's more in depth.

Rushing Military Complex is going to save you 20% and it's not as good as you think. You can rush other wonders. The civ strenghts are horse rushing and 1/2 price units infact, then the x3 factory production comes later and it's not going to help if you rush them in every city. Communism + Factories in 2-3 production cities can make it worth, but not more. Then you can win by economic really easy if you want. Ok, again, read the MEGA CITY STRATEGY.
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Old Aug 06, 2009, 01:44 AM   #11
GGrayson
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Originally Posted by soprismb View Post
Dude, easy, Morte. For the 9,384th time, I'm not arguing with you. It's your fiefdom here and I respect that. I also respect the horserush strategy and, indeed, if you play with them a lot and it works for you, I'll take your word for. Dude, calm down. Again, you're the guy who plays this game non-stop--I'm sure your info is good info.

I haven't played with America in a long time (I'm putting the finishing touches on the 64 wins at Deity first). That said, you're again, better suited for it than me.

But I'm an odds guy.

I believe that even odds as an attacker is a very risky proposition. It's why I like the game so much--it's a fundamental assessement of warfare. It lets you know how risk averse you are. That said, I like America's chances better in the end game. They are clearly not like the Germans, Aztecs, Zulu.

HERE IS WHAT I'VE FOUND WORKS WITH AMERICA:

Obviously, you want to make a b-line straight towards the usual techs early on. Try and get a feeling for what your opponents are doing. If you're playing China for example, you know that they're two techs ahead of you, don't bother with irrigation...they're going to get it. Instead focus on getting Republic as fast as possible.

Work your way towards Currency and THEN go for the 250/bonus as banking. THEN you want to be the first to get the two +5/gold bonuses in industrialization.

Then corporation.

Use your great builder for the Military Industrial Complex.

Start cranking out factory after factory BEFORE you rush anything. Try and get to 1000 gold as quick as possible because with the +2 plains bonus, you'll have 4 in plains and then you can have a lot of flexibility.

So basically my opinion is that for a domination victory, you have to act like an economic powerhouse if you're america. You want to have the ability to get 100 gold/turn for doing nothing (interest bonus). That way you can just pound out unit after mother fu k ing unit and you're unstoppable.

Again, dude, I'm not stealing your thunder. Contrary. I think you have an excellent point. I just think what makes this game SOOOO much fun is that you can't just say, "Horserushing works every time" or "Knights ALWAYS work". It's such a well designed game that you have to make adjustments on the fly.

And again, I stand by what we orginally talked about on an earlier thread. It's more important to play to your CIVs strengths than your own personal preferences. I think you'd agree with that.

Best wishes
Why would the Chinese get to Irrigation before you in single player??? The AI almost always techs Bronze Working, Iron Working, then Alpabet, Pottery Masonary and then finally Irrigation. You should always beat the AI to irrigation unless there's Egypt in the game, and they'd probably have to have Collosus to beat you to it.

I understand you not wanting to horserush, and you like a long slow game that percolates nicely, and Americans can win in a lot of ways, but their highest rate of success is via rushing. Not just the horserush, but that is 90% of the time the most effective opening for them, but also being aggressive throughout the game.

In the Medieval era, the Americans can rush units at their hammer value. If you tech up to Feudalism, first building about 10-20 cities really fast while in republic, you can then set all your cities to gold. You'll be making about 50-100 gold per turn, and then you'll start spamming 2-4 knights per turn. Do this for 5-10 turns, switch to fundamentalism, and not even riflemen are gonna stop you.

You can do this with any unit. 5 legion armies will usually stomp on pikemen, 3 legion armies will usually take care of an archer army. Catapults attack just as strong as knights, and you can get them way earlier.

Any strategy that claims to be the most effective, yet advises to hold off until the modern era to become powerful is not really sound at all. There are too many varibles, as you have said, for it to go wrong. This is also why anyone who sets out building a lot of warriors so they can eventually upgrade them to tanks via Leonardo's Workshop is way off in strategy as well. There is just way too much in between the opening and the modern era to say sit back and wait for the x3 factory bonus.

- waiting to not go over 250 gold before Currency is smart, because you'll get the free market. But there's no reason to then save up to get free Banking other than it give you industrialization a few turns faster, since Banking is a pre-req for it. It's not really a big deal, and often I'll wait and tech banking as well to get the 100 gold bonus, but that's not really a game changer either.

- There is absolutely no point to building the Military Industrial Complex with the Americans. They have no problem ever rushing units. In the Modern era, they are rushing units at the same gold cost that others rush them for in the Ancient era: x2 costs. Why would you need to waste a GB or hammers on this wonder for them?

- Basically, you waiting to long to do what you are doing in the Modern era. You can do this in the Medieval era and have almost as many units as you want, you don't have to wait forever to start pumping out units.

I have a lot of friends that like long and slow CivRev games, eventhough they no they can stomp on the AI at any point of the game. They like the pretty buildings and seeing their cultural borders expand, and building up an unessarily large tech lead. If you're that kind of guy, then have at it, I don't want to get in the way of your fun. But, if you are talking about pure and sound strategy, then I am of the opinion that you are way off.



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Old Aug 10, 2009, 11:34 PM   #12
soprismb
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I do know this: If you're America and China is in the game, dimes to fu k ing donuts you won't beat them to irrigation. Here's why: the AI LOVES bronze and Iron working. But usually it also tries to mix in alphabet with china so that it can get to COL and switch to Republic. That said, they don't have to bother with the 40 science it takes to get writing. The reason China has the lead early on in tech is because of the +1 city pop. So, while it takes everyone else 5 turns to get a warrior and increase in pop, china gets 5 turns of +2 science. Which means they'll get an early jump.

And that doesn't even include the greeks. For whatever reason, the Greeks always have the tech lead early in the game. I don't know how the fu k they do it but just watch when you play the Greeks, they will ALWAYS have the early tech lead unless you're playing with Egypt and someone shoves a rainbow up your ass and starts you in the middle of the Mojave Desert or something.

I will ceed you this point, Grey: I think a turtle strategy is a bad recipe. I agree it pays to be aggressive and waiting is a bad move--especially against any real person. I can see that. After you wrote your article, I can see that rush would probably work better than going to republic with America.

Picture yourself next to England and say, India, and you're in the middle. If you're America, the smart thing might be to avoid trying to rush towards Republic and instead use your strategy of using rush to create a couple of horseman armies and then just steal everyone else's settlers. The problem though is that that won't work when you get democracy. You can't just attack with a Democracy.

BUT, again, i'll emphasize this again: using the example above, you're going to have a motherbeeeeeeeeotch of a time horserushing and taking a capital city with horses with America. The reason I know this is because I passed 8th grade math my third time through it. Horseman, (say veteran horseman to make it sweet) cannot take a capital that is defended by veteran archers unless you're a few shades of lucky. The palace bonus makes it so fu k ing hard. It's a motherbeotchwhore taking down archers with Knights if there is a palace and say it's Russia and they have loyalty. Let alone horseman.

And honestly Morte, Grey, whomever else is out there, answer me this: Have you guys HONESTLY ever taken London with Longbow archers with simple horseman? HONESTLY. Yeah, maybe you got lucky once or twice and did it but I'll doubt you do it consistantly. Or the Greeks? Have you taken Athens with Horseman? Horseman over pikeman? Won't happen. I'll take those odds every single fu k ing game.

As far as the Military Industrial goes, I'm just telling you what I found worked for the Americans. I tried it last night and rushed the MIC and by then it was over. I was in a hell of a fight until I could just overwhelm anyone. Switch to all gold over science, and then buy cheap units that are rushed at half cost and you're unstoppable.

BUT, I'll stress that what I love about the game is every game is different and maybe MIC wouldn't work with the Yanks in a game where the French were ready to get a domination victory or something. It just depends--the game is fluid.

I like the MIC but if no one else does, I'll take your word for it, I haven't used the Yanks in a long while. But hencetoforth it's always seemed to be the most effective method for a late game win for me.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 02:40 AM   #13
GGrayson
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Are you talking about Single Player or Multiplayer???

If you are talking single player, then I don't agree w/ the post. Humans will get better defenses up faster, but the AI won't have an archer army before 2000BC, which gives you 10 turns to use your horsearmy to get a cap. 9 times out of 10 I have my horsearmy by 3000BC w/ the Americans, and the most resistence I'll get it some single archers or a hopilite from Greece. The Greeks are difficult to horserush after 10 turns, but that's about it. Otherwise, in SP, the Americans are almost guarenteed to get 1 cap in SP w/ horsemen. If you don't beleive this, then send me your gamertag and I'll show you in teams game or something so you can see what I mean.

We're not talking about horserushing others after they get an archer army, we're saying you've gotta get there faster than they get archers, which is easy to do against the AI if you are doing it right.

And I know what China gets for tech as the AI, and they won't get Irrigation before 1000BC 90% of the time. Japan gets tech faster than the Chinese in SP, because they put more workers on sea. The Chinses AI just grows, gets a single city, and it takes forever for them to get their third and fourth cities. Meanwhile, after 5 techs w/ the Americans, you should have about 5 cities really fast and get CoL and Irrigation, and then you should have about 15-20 by 0 AD.

Irrigation is easy to have first, if you aren't getting it, you probably aren't expanding enough early on.

And again, on the MIC: It's like throwing a hand gernade out of a plane after you've already sent a bomb down, it's overkill and not needed. You've already got half cost units, why do you need 1/3 cost units?? Espeically in the modern era when you've got 3x factories. At this point, you shouldn't need anymore units at all. It usuallly just takes about 2 or 3 tank armies to kill the AI anyway, what exactly are you trying to do to them? Are you actually letting them keep pace with you in tech all the way to the modern?? This shouldn't happen ever. If you aren't establishing at least a 10 tech lead by the time you're in modern or shortly thereafter, you are not expanding enough and not teching well enough.

You seem like you have the right kind of analytical mind for the game, but maybe you just aren't there yet, and that's fine. Lots of things work in the game, but you're probably making things harder on yourself. You should be able win the game a lot quicker, getting to the modern a lot faster, and taking more caps sooner. When I first started beating Deity, I would do it with just 4 or 5 cities, and it would still be a struggle. Then i learned the power of expansion, and now i try to get at least 10 cities in the BC against the AI, and there is never a doubt who's game it is. I haven't lost to the AI since maybe around the time I first beat Deity, which would be about 10 months ago and about 200 games ago. They shouldn't give you any problem, just expand and kill.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 05:29 AM   #14
MorteEterna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soprismb View Post
I do know this: If you're America and China is in the game, dimes to fu k ing donuts you won't beat them to irrigation. Here's why: the AI LOVES bronze and Iron working. But usually it also tries to mix in alphabet with china so that it can get to COL and switch to Republic. That said, they don't have to bother with the 40 science it takes to get writing. The reason China has the lead early on in tech is because of the +1 city pop. So, while it takes everyone else 5 turns to get a warrior and increase in pop, china gets 5 turns of +2 science. Which means they'll get an early jump.

And that doesn't even include the greeks. For whatever reason, the Greeks always have the tech lead early in the game. I don't know how the fu k they do it but just watch when you play the Greeks, they will ALWAYS have the early tech lead unless you're playing with Egypt and someone shoves a rainbow up your ass and starts you in the middle of the Mojave Desert or something.

I will ceed you this point, Grey: I think a turtle strategy is a bad recipe. I agree it pays to be aggressive and waiting is a bad move--especially against any real person. I can see that. After you wrote your article, I can see that rush would probably work better than going to republic with America.

Picture yourself next to England and say, India, and you're in the middle. If you're America, the smart thing might be to avoid trying to rush towards Republic and instead use your strategy of using rush to create a couple of horseman armies and then just steal everyone else's settlers. The problem though is that that won't work when you get democracy. You can't just attack with a Democracy.

BUT, again, i'll emphasize this again: using the example above, you're going to have a motherbeeeeeeeeotch of a time horserushing and taking a capital city with horses with America. The reason I know this is because I passed 8th grade math my third time through it. Horseman, (say veteran horseman to make it sweet) cannot take a capital that is defended by veteran archers unless you're a few shades of lucky. The palace bonus makes it so fu k ing hard. It's a motherbeotchwhore taking down archers with Knights if there is a palace and say it's Russia and they have loyalty. Let alone horseman.

And honestly Morte, Grey, whomever else is out there, answer me this: Have you guys HONESTLY ever taken London with Longbow archers with simple horseman? HONESTLY. Yeah, maybe you got lucky once or twice and did it but I'll doubt you do it consistantly. Or the Greeks? Have you taken Athens with Horseman? Horseman over pikeman? Won't happen. I'll take those odds every single fu k ing game.

As far as the Military Industrial goes, I'm just telling you what I found worked for the Americans. I tried it last night and rushed the MIC and by then it was over. I was in a hell of a fight until I could just overwhelm anyone. Switch to all gold over science, and then buy cheap units that are rushed at half cost and you're unstoppable.

BUT, I'll stress that what I love about the game is every game is different and maybe MIC wouldn't work with the Yanks in a game where the French were ready to get a domination victory or something. It just depends--the game is fluid.

I like the MIC but if no one else does, I'll take your word for it, I haven't used the Yanks in a long while. But hencetoforth it's always seemed to be the most effective method for a late game win for me.
Now I understand your reasoning.

You work on balanced, you think I would horse rush after 20 turns or probrably 30.

Ok, I had once a HORSEMEN ARMY in FOUR turns with 2/3 EXP. 2 turns far away from a chinese top player.. Bad for me, he had 2 fortified veteran archer armies..

Are you kidding me? You talk about London having longbow archers, Athens with tons of hoplites etc..

You make me laugh

Only a lucky man using english could defend to horsemen.. It's not vice-versa.

In SP irrigation is REALLY EASY to get before the AI and not hard in MP using Americans and taking 1-2 capitals.

AI doesn't build the archer army by 2000 BC Grayson.. They get the first archer by that time unless you declare them war.
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