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Old Aug 31, 2009, 08:10 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu Wu View Post
I tried to find out why a Forest Chop takes the same number of turns by starting the following thread:

Forest Chop in both Quick and Normal Speed games is 3 turns?

The following post in that thread seems to be the most insightful:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...07&postcount=6

Could the BUFFY-3.19.001 module affect the number of Worker turns it takes to Chop a Forest (especially for Quick speed games)?
That post makes it look like it's always been that way. Where does BUFFY come into the picture?

To be clear, these aren't rounding errors per se, just a simple fact that the game speed ratios are percentages (67%) instead of a fraction (2/3 = 0.666666666... ~= 0.67).
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 08:33 PM   #182
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Re: Forest Chop in both Quick and Normal Speed games is 3 turns?

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Originally Posted by EmperorFool View Post
That post makes it look like it's always been that way. Where does BUFFY come into the picture?
Unfortunately, "look like it's always been that way" is not the same as "100% verified". I started the other thread in the hope that someone could verify whether previous versions of BtS or even Vanilla or Warlords have the same bug as BtS 3.19 and BUFFY-3.19.001, but without much luck so far.

I never noticed that Forest Chops in the Ancient Era take 3 turns for both Quick and Normal speed Games, until I started using BtS 3.19 and BUFFY-3.19.001.

I'm not saying that BUFFY-3.19.001 causes this bug. I'm asking whether or not it could? And by implication, whether or not it does? I don't know the answer. I'm hoping someone else does.

Sun Tzu Wu

Last edited by Sun Tzu Wu; Aug 31, 2009 at 08:36 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 08:51 PM   #183
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BUFFY certainly could change forest chops on quick speed from 2 turns to 3, but that doesn't get us anywhere. The real question is this: when playing a non-BUFFY 3.19 BTS game, do forest chops on quick speed take 2 or 3 turns?

If the answer is 2, BUFFY is changing the behavior (bad!). If 3, BUFFY works just like BTS (good!) and there's no problem.

Solution: Start a non-BUFFY game, gift yourself Bronze Working and a Worker, and chop a forest. How many turns does it take?
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 09:33 PM   #184
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Re: Forest Chop in both Quick and Normal Speed games is 3 turns?

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Originally Posted by EmperorFool View Post
BUFFY certainly could change forest chops on quick speed from 2 turns to 3, but that doesn't get us anywhere. The real question is this: when playing a non-BUFFY 3.19 BTS game, do forest chops on quick speed take 2 or 3 turns?

If the answer is 2, BUFFY is changing the behavior (bad!). If 3, BUFFY works just like BTS (good!) and there's no problem.

Solution: Start a non-BUFFY game, gift yourself Bronze Working and a Worker, and chop a forest. How many turns does it take?
I just verified that BUFFY-3.19.001 has no effect on the length of a Quick game Forest Chop in the Ancient Era. It takes a Worker 3 turns to complete a Forest Chop in a Quick speed Game regardless of whether or not BUFFY-3.19.001 is running.

BUFFY-3.19.001 does not change a Quick speed Game's Forest Chop length. It is always 3 Worker turns in the Ancient Era of BtS 3.19, regardless of whether BUFFY-3.19.001 is running.

With BUFFY-3.19.001 eliminated as the source of this bug, we can conclude that the bug is in the BtS 3.19 code.

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Old Aug 31, 2009, 09:59 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu Wu View Post
I just verified that BUFFY-3.19.001 has no effect on the length of a Quick game Forest Chop in the Ancient Era.
Good to know, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu Wu View Post
We can conclude that the bug is in the BtS 3.19 code.
It may be desirable that chops on quick should take 2 turns, but unless that was intended by the game designers, it's not really a bug. The calculation in the code produces the correct result given the data in the XML (67 factor for Quick speed).

The reason this is noticeable for chopping and other worker tasks is that the number isn't truncated (divided by 100) to get the number of turns. Instead, workers must perform "work" to add up to a number greater than or equal to the final value (201). In the early game, workers perform work in units of 100.

For your personal (non-HOF) games you could change the speed factor for Quick to 66 to get your 2-turn chops. Other things will be slightly affected, but probably not in any serious way.
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Old Sep 01, 2009, 08:17 AM   #186
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I can confirm that a chop takes 3 turns at quick with v3.17
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Old Sep 01, 2009, 07:42 PM   #187
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Re: Forest Chop in both Quick and Normal Speed games is 3 turns?

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Originally Posted by ruff_hi View Post
I can confirm that a chop takes 3 turns at quick with v3.17
Thanks!

I've reported this bug to the Civ4 Bug Reports Forum:

Forest Chop in both Quick and Normal Speed games is 3 turns

Additional comment can go to the Bug thread above or to the following HOF thread:

Forest Chop in both Quick and Normal Speed games is 3 turns?

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Old Sep 01, 2009, 10:19 PM   #188
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I have had 2 submission rejected based on replay. I have not replayed either game and was extremely careful on the second game. Would like to know what is occurring.
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Old Sep 02, 2009, 01:24 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by XEON View Post
I have had 2 submission rejected based on replay. I have not replayed either game and was extremely careful on the second game. Would like to know what is occurring.
welcome to the club...
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Old Sep 02, 2009, 07:58 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XEON View Post
I have had 2 submission rejected based on replay. I have not replayed either game and was extremely careful on the second game. Would like to know what is occurring.
Check your email, they usually tell you why it was rejected. If you have questions, probably best to talk to them privately to figure out what the problem was. My biggest problem in the past has been using the wrong starting file or something like that.
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Old Sep 03, 2009, 08:56 AM   #191
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Here is what we normally tell people when there is an issue where they are sure they didn't reload:

Quote:
Please take care of how you manage your save files. Starting from the wrong save file cannot be distinguished from other forms of reloading and replaying. The most common causes of reload/replay issues where the player doesn’t realize it probably are:
  • Forgetting to save at the end of a session – “Save on Exit” option created to combat this
  • Loading the wrong save – it is important to use “Save on Exit” or have some kind of naming convention to keep all the files together.
  • Replaying the same starting file a second time – easy to do with map finder if you don’t move/rename them when you use them.
One thing I think I would add to the list is not to rely on autosaves. Making a manual save or using the "Save on Exit" are more certain methods.
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Old Sep 03, 2009, 08:51 PM   #192
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Re: Tips for avoiding accidental save file reloading

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Originally Posted by Denniz View Post
One thing I think I would add to the list is not to rely on autosaves. Making a manual save or using the "Save on Exit" are more certain methods.
I'll just add that I always have my saves files sorted by time stamp (latest on top), so its clear which save file was the last one written.

Also, I use a very easy to identify filename (i.e. End-Session-<n> for ending session n) when the save will be used to end the current session. I never reload from any file other than the last such file (with End-Session as part of the filename). I also include a (personal) game number, the turn number and year in every save filename.

Just adding a bit of formalism to saving games as described might help one avoid accidental reloading.

Another easier way might be just including the current time and date as part of the save filename.

Also, be very, very sure that you do load from the latest save file and not accidentally from the second latest save file instead. It's very easy to do with these new fangled GUIs, such as via using the double-click which doesn't even give one a split second to verify that the correct filename was chosen.

Sun Tzu wu

Last edited by Sun Tzu Wu; Sep 03, 2009 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old Sep 04, 2009, 12:14 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu Wu View Post
I'll just add that I always have my saves files sorted by time stamp (latest on top), so its clear which save file was the last one written.

Also, I use a very easy to identify filename (i.e. End-Session-<n> for ending session n) when the save will be used to end the current session. I never reload from any file other than the last such file (with End-Session as part of the filename). I also include a (personal) game number, the turn number and year in every save filename.

Just adding a bit of formalism to saving games as described might help one avoid accidental reloading.

Another easier way might be just including the current time and date as part of the save filename.

Also, be very, very sure that you do load from the latest save file and not accidentally from the second latest save file instead. It's very easy to do with these new fangled GUIs, such as via using the double-click which doesn't even give one a split second to verify that the correct filename was chosen.

Sun Tzu wu
I always use double-click to open the last save, and it happened once to me to play for an earlier save. Then again, I'm not sure I had the right save available (save on exit option wasn't checked on my first game with the new warlords mod)...
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Old Sep 08, 2009, 10:20 AM   #194
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I load from within the game. I suppose it must be customisable, but my default always shows the latest file (usually the auto-save-on-exit) at the top of the list. I found double-clicking in Windows in the save directory was prone to error.
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Old Sep 08, 2009, 11:11 AM   #195
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It seems that BtS with BUFFY requires a great deal more system resources than simple BtS. My question: does BUFFY really make BtS more resource hungry and which settings do I need to uncheck to reduce the strain on my videocard (I mostly get errors for insufficient video memory)
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Old Sep 08, 2009, 06:46 PM   #196
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Re: Tips for avoiding accidental save file reloading

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Originally Posted by Misotu View Post
I load from within the game. I suppose it must be customisable, but my default always shows the latest file (usually the auto-save-on-exit) at the top of the list. I found double-clicking in Windows in the save directory was prone to error.
I also load from within the Game's Load function. I don't use double-click here or anywhere else when loading a Game Save file. Loading a Game Save file is like a mini religious ceremony; everything is done in the exact same order and in the exact same way; deviation from the time honored ceremony is sacrilegious.

I do _not_ trust MS Windows to do anything right. When it does, I dismiss the event as a Miracle and give credit where credit is due (RNG god). Did I mention that I don't trust Microsoft?

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Old Sep 08, 2009, 08:10 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizikis View Post
It seems that BtS with BUFFY requires a great deal more system resources than simple BtS. My question: does BUFFY really make BtS more resource hungry and which settings do I need to uncheck to reduce the strain on my videocard (I mostly get errors for insufficient video memory)
It shouldn't require anything more than BTS. BUFFY adds a tiny number of new graphics (all small) for the unit's on the selected plot (the stack) if you have mission tags enabled. But this a drop in the bucket compared to the BTS textures and models for the units which BUFFY doesn't change at all.
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Old Sep 09, 2009, 12:29 PM   #198
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Hellooo, I have a new computer and I also have new computer troubles.

I've installed civ and patched it without trouble however Buffy keeps on crashing to desktop during a game. The most common time for this to happen is when I select a stack and click on an enemy city, as I release the mouse button on the city the game crashes (but not always...).
To run the game I am right clicking the civ shortcut and selecting "run as administrator" (because when I don't the game tells me it's not valid for HoF).

I am running windows vista premium 64-bit and I'm feeling a bit overwhelemd by all the changes.
I played through a non-Buffy game and had no crashes so they seem to be restricted to Buffy (which is why I posted here).

Is there anything really obvious I'm missing. I read through Lemons vista guide but I don't see anything about 32-bit and 64-bit partitions on my computer and everything is all wierd and I am stupid...

sad face.

PK
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Old Sep 09, 2009, 12:49 PM   #199
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stack attack is a known issue for BUFFY - we are working on it and we should have a workable solution for the next release of BUFFY. In the mean time, disable the 'stack attack' option.
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Old Sep 09, 2009, 12:59 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbenno View Post
Use this thread for any feedback regarding the new MODs (especially BUFFY).
Ok, here we go again. I'm playing current Immortal BOTM as my 1st game with BUFFY and I'm really impressed with the help provided by the new interface and advisors. Some may argue this help is like a clutch and could "dumb down" gameplay. Stuff like mouseover telling how many coins will a harbor add to this city, or how many hammers a factory will add, etc. The fact is, it is improving my decision-making (or so I think ).

I've always been a fan of HOF Mod's autolog and Buffy's is even better. I have a couple remarks about it, though:
1. When I change the autolog file name in the options menu, it seems that said change won't work until next time the game is loaded up - current session will be saved under previous autolog name. With previous HOF Mods, name changes were updated real time. As I always create a new autolog for each new game, this can be a bit awkward - is there a workaround for this?

2. The autolog now shows the nationality of the privateers which have engaged combat with your ships. Not sure how relevant is this info (maybe it's meaningless since there's nothing you can do about it, even friendly AI's privateers attacked me) but I thought I wouldn't have access to this info before this mod. Just wondering.
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