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Old Oct 13, 2009, 12:41 PM   #1
nthingasitseems
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Just got completely screwed

Wow. I was just going for my first space race victory. I had every part built and the ship launched. It was going to take 12 turns to win.

Then Boudica launced an attack on me.

Now how the hell does this make sense? If the ship has been launced, and is in outer space, how does a nuclear device dropped on my city have any impact, what-so-freaking-ever on a space ship?!?!? That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen. So if that's true, how the hell is it even possible to win the space race. All anyone has to do is just drop a nuke on the capital and they just completely screwed their opponent.

This actually has left a really bad taste in my mouth for this game. I was really enjoying playing it, and had a legitimate path to victory, and the AI just decided, "I've got a magical nuclear weapon that can destroy ships in space. What the hell... Hiroshima!!!"

Whatever, that's freakin stupid. Can anyone give me an idea how to avoid that.?And don't tell me about keeping up relations, because I was giving techs away to everyone left and right, and the move prior to Boudica attacking me, a random event happened that gave me the option to improve relations +3 by giving the wench all of my food stores. So what the hell am I supposed to do???
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 12:46 PM   #2
Badtz Maru
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I wasn't aware that having your capital nuked resulted in losing the ship. I thought that they had to capture your capital to keep you from winning.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 12:48 PM   #3
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I wasn't aware that having your capital nuked resulted in losing the ship. I thought that they had to capture your capital to keep you from winning.
They do. The OP didn't get screwed by anything but poor diplo planning and/or a weak military .

If your capitol is taken while the ship is in transit in BTS, the mission fails. Protect your capitol.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 01:02 PM   #4
nthingasitseems
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They do. The OP didn't get screwed by anything but poor diplo planning and/or a weak military .

If your capitol is taken while the ship is in transit in BTS, the mission fails. Protect your capitol.
Yeah? So how do you protect you capital against a nuclear freakin bomb, bro?
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 01:04 PM   #5
Badtz Maru
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Yeah? So how do you protect you capital against a nuclear freakin bomb, bro?
The nuke did not cause you to lose. The army that followed it and conquered your capital did.


Build SDI, if you can launch a ship you've had the tech for it for a long time. Build bunkers so your units take less damage. Keep other units near but not in your capital as reinforcements. Build a circle of defenses around your capital so that, even if you do get hit hard by a nuke, they can't get an army there before you have a chance to reinforce.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 01:18 PM   #6
Tatran
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Move your palace when your capital is coastal.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 01:22 PM   #7
nthingasitseems
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Okay, but here's the thing... that's fine and all, if the conditions for victory state that you need to launch your ship and protect your capital! The game says nothing of the sort. Check the Civilopedia.

So, if the United States figured out how to launch a ship to Alpha Centauri, got the sucker built and launched from Houston, and the next day Washington D.C. was hit by a nuclear device and razed by the Chinese, that would have exactly what to do with a ship that is in outer space?

I could understand if the entire United States was taken over, and the ship was completely dependent on communications with its homeland to complete its mission, and all sources of said communication were severed by an attack from another country. But the victory condition was to launch the ship and have it reach Alpha Centauri. Nowhere does it state that you have to keep your capital. Besides, in Civ 3, if you lose your capital, another city just takes its place. So what the hell does it matter if you lose a capital or not?
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 01:54 PM   #8
twansalem
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I've never lost a game due to the AI taking my capital after I've launched my ship, but this little loophole sure has saved a few games for me. I've razed a number of AI capitals to stop their ships, and in the process ensure my own victory.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 02:10 PM   #9
Badtz Maru
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The designers decided that they would make the space race more interesting by making the win happen when your ship landed, not when it was launched. To make this have any meaning, they had to make a way to stop someone once the ship was launched and chose "Having your capital conquered or razed". This seems like a pretty fair decision, since it should be pretty difficult to take a civilization's capital, especially if that civilization is doing everything it can to survive those last 12 turns or so and knows they will win, even if every other city is taken.

Just face that you screwed up. You left your capital relatively undefended when all you had to do was defend your capital a few turns to win.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 02:21 PM   #10
twansalem
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I'd been playing BTS long enough that I'd forgotten that it didn't work the same way in Warlords. So when I was playing multi-player Warlords with a friend who's too cheap to go out and get BTS, I was surprised when I won the game as soon as the spaceship finished building. I was a bit disappointed too, because he had declared war on me only a couple turns before (just for the heck of it, he knew I had the game won), and I was planning on squashing him with some modern armor during my ship's flight.

Once you're used to having to defend your capital until the ship arrives, the old way of winning once the ship is launched seems kind of cheap.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 02:35 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Badtz Maru View Post
The designers decided that they would make the space race more interesting by making the win happen when your ship landed, not when it was launched. To make this have any meaning, they had to make a way to stop someone once the ship was launched and chose "Having your capital conquered or razed". This seems like a pretty fair decision, since it should be pretty difficult to take a civilization's capital, especially if that civilization is doing everything it can to survive those last 12 turns or so and knows they will win, even if every other city is taken.

Just face that you screwed up. You left your capital relatively undefended when all you had to do was defend your capital a few turns to win.
But is what he said true about this not being in the civilopedia? If that's the case then I can understand his frustration somewhat. If he knew he had to defend his capital, his actions might have been different.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 02:40 PM   #12
Badtz Maru
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But is what he said true about this not being in the civilopedia? If that's the case then I can understand his frustration somewhat. If he knew he had to defend his capital, his actions might have been different.
I don't have access to the instructions or Civilopedia right now, and I can't remember when I found out you could stop your opponent from getting space victory by capturing their capital, I just feel like I always knew this. I haven't had BtS for long, so I think I probably learned this from a message board or article sometime before buying the expansion.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 03:06 PM   #13
jauggy
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In CivRev you have to defend your capital. That's how I knew about it because I have CivRev.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 03:31 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Badtz Maru View Post
I don't have access to the instructions or Civilopedia right now, and I can't remember when I found out you could stop your opponent from getting space victory by capturing their capital, I just feel like I always knew this. I haven't had BtS for long, so I think I probably learned this from a message board or article sometime before buying the expansion.
In any way, it were already working like that in civII. I would have said the same for civIII, but I don't remember well.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 03:33 PM   #15
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Here is another thread, with the exact opposite oppinion of the OP:

The AI never tries to win

Anyway, I think it'd be common sense to protect your capital. Your frustration is understandible, but it's not a problem with the game mechanics. There needs to be a means to stop a space race victory, and capturing the capital is a fine mechanic to do this.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 05:17 PM   #16
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In Civ 2 expansions there was the Mars senario that I loved. It included as much pulp 1950's Mars fiction as possible. The goal was to build the Earth Return Vehicle and find out what happened to Earth. Turns out Washington was destroyed by a volcano and thus Mars was ignored. This was before SMAC and SMAC's answer to losing communication with Earth was WW3.

As simple as the game is, I can handle taking over an enemy's capitol to stop their ship. I presume it gets there and settles, just like the other two games.
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Old Oct 13, 2009, 05:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by nthingasitseems View Post
Yeah? So how do you protect you capital against a nuclear freakin bomb, bro?
Pick:

- You get people who can launch them on you to a high enough disposition where they can't declare on you.

- You win before anybody even has nukes

- You ban nukes before they're built via UN

- You hold such massive power that nobody will declare

- You have sufficient defenses to turn away all attacks.
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 10:43 AM   #18
J-man
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With SDI and bomb shelters you can also get decent nuke protection.
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 11:01 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam View Post
Pick:

- You get people who can launch them on you to a high enough disposition where they can't declare on you.

- You win before anybody even has nukes

- You ban nukes before they're built via UN

- You hold such massive power that nobody will declare

- You have sufficient defenses to turn away all attacks.
Let me add another option...

- You go for another type of victory (I almost never win by space race, even in the few cases where I have launched a ship, I usually pull out a diplomatic victory with the UN before it gets there).
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 11:14 AM   #20
acm2033
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Yeah, when I've won by Space Race, I'm usually close to at least one other type of victory.

Not always, though. I won the space race as the #3 (in score) civ. That was great!
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