Dirk's deity game pt II

Think you're right about that barb city, it's just a crappy site. Much better to to build some inland cities one of them picking up the rice. Moai in wine city appeals to me too, with all those mines moai can actually be built.

I need both chariots to get up the gems near barb city, one chariot is too risky but there won't be an all out archer attack on 2 chariots there. After they're done i'll set one to explore, who knows what he'll find.

It occurs to me that i need meditation soon, i plan on switching to caste system/pacifism after currency->col. Not only can i run lots of specs in that case, it would save me at least 10 turns with border pops in wine city. But running all those spec under pacifism is kind of waste without hindu in relevant cities. Liz doesn't have med yet, maybe i should research now to pick up some gold in the bargain.
 
An alternative plan to researching currency now is going for Col and bulb philo.

This may have some advantages:

I need meditation asap anyway for monastery and missonaries

Col is a bit less expensive than currency and i'll need it in only 9 turns when the next GS is born, one turn later isn't a disaster. This'll free my cities to some extent from building research and
specs meaning i can go for new cities/workers earlier.

I'm probably going to trade philo away anyway preferably for CS so i'll just save those 6 turns to currency. Earlier col means earlier caste (i'll switch very soon probably) meaning an earlier border pop for wine city. Could be in ~10 + 3 (for assigned artist) = 13 turns. Going for currency and not switching caste for some time it'd be way over 20 turns

Only drawback i can think of is that neither SB nor Han researches currency quickly, that chance's very small i think.
 
A case can be made for staying in Slavery until the next Golden Age.

Here's why:

1) The capital has the Great Library, so it can run 4 scientists at the cost of 2.

2) The Wine city will be late in growing up, no matter what. However, before the 1st border pop, it can already work a grassland Cow. Since it probably will be the latest in generating its Great Person, you can designate it as the one to trigger a Golden Age...which means the type of Great Person generated is irrelevant. For this city's specialist slots, you can build a Library and a half-priced Courthouse.

3) You have Silk...which means that a Market adds +1 happiness. This makes a Market more useful, and Nippur can whip a Market to unlock 2 merchants.

4) Your cities will be able to whip if you stay in Slavery. For example, you can whip Forges in your major cities to gain the +1 extra happiness from Gems.



If your plan is set on running Caste System right away, I won't stop you...just suggesting an alternate plan here.
 
^That's right it doesn't really affect the plan to go col first and bulb philo.

Caste system has 2 advantages:

Getting border pops earlier in wine city

Running 2 gp farms simultaneously as wheat city is growing fats atm. This would be the safest way to bulb to lib. I'll need 2 missionaries in this case.As a result of this i will have rather large cities once i'll go back to slavery so i may be able to whip unis fast.

But in Slavery we can 2 pop whip courthouses and other infra. I need more workers to clear out all the jungle and road the empire, some of those could be whipped as well. I also don't lose a turn in anarchy.

I think both plans are good, need to see when col is in i think if we go col route. I'm still leaning towards caste system a bit. Good as they are at 1/2 price i can delay courthouses a bit, i count on selling resources, most of the research'll come from specs/bulbing anyway. Caste system doesn't have to be that long, i'll switch back during a GA.
 
Planned to play to 1 AD at first but since it's been some time and we don't face big decisions atm i played a bit further.

225
Switch all cities but Akkad to build infra/settlers/workers, research towards pottery open borders with SB again, it helps a bit with research. This'll hurt research but research is bad anyway atm, better to build useful infra now than artificially speeding along with building research.

200



Liz disconnects from trade network, i set some cities to granaries Research set to meditation

150
SB techs currency, Liz'll trade it now. Rearranging trade with SB





I had hoped to get wine + 4 gpt for marble but with Parthenon and GL already built this isn't on anymore

125
Research sinks to a low level at 40%. I would have been better of with a settled spec in Kurigalzu for now but i will get a good trade opportunity somewhere i think.
Tech meditation but no good trade opportunities present themselves atm.





Connect fish, this city will become an asset now.



100

Buddhist AP



75
This is nice





Also get the much discussed winecity up this turn



50 BC
Glad to renew this one, seldom was fish worth so much early game.



25 BC
Liz and Han are willing to trade COL but i have nothing to trade to them, SB still isn't willing well i have finished half of it already. Dye and Banana come online this turn , Kurigalzu has it's granary now and is on it's way to become a very good city.

25 AD



50 AD


Tao founded

75 AD
Didn't get full value



Have to watch out for a peace treatie between han and liz, would lead to cs<->philo trade soon

100 AD
Han isn't doing well it seems



Kurigalzu city doing well, whip monastery now, whip missionary next at size 5. Once he reaches the capital i'll seriously contemplate caste system, try to whip the last granaries and maybe some courthouses before that.



Han is almost finished with currency, still get a fair price for it. He has 160 gold this moment.



Current tech


At ~130 bpt research has improved with currency and the calendar resources. I'll have CS in 6 turns now.Even without pacifism in the capital Babylon can produce a GS by then. I think GA then and a full civic switch to hr/buro/caste/paci. Can probably switch back to slavery after this GA. Han and Liz are still at war. Research'll be a bit low for some time but i've seen worse and i have a lot of bulb power here.
 

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You have high health and low happiness, HR would certainly help. As would CS for growth, so the current path looks good. What's the downtime when switching civics here? Since a GA would be better with some extra tiles to work, perhaps going into HR now and growing for some turns before starting it would be the better option. There's the added bonus of using the wine city for another GP when the pop gets high enough, something you'll be foregoing if you start a GA earlier. Quitting slavery when you still need to produce the units for HR might not be the best idea either.

What's with the barb city of the coast near wine city? Can you get here with a WB and check it out? Perhaps there's even more room for peaceful expansion.
 
I read your Elizabeth game...in that game you tried early Caste + Pacifism with 2 turns of anarchy. The advantage there was an early flow of GPP to win the Liberalism race.

The other extreme is to do Bureaucracy + Pacifism (delaying Hereditary Rule and Caste System) for 1 turn of anarchy, then grow your cities while preparing for the Golden Age. During the Golden Age, you race for the last ounce of GPPs while switching to Hereditary Rule + Caste System. This approach gives you a lot of potential for the GPP surge you have when the Golden Age arrives.

The approach you are considering in this game is somewhere in the middle. Here, you minimize the anarchy by making all 4 civic switches at one time, during the Golden Age. But the drawback is that the surge of GPP you gain from the Golden Age is premature, due to lack of time for preparation (in both city population and accumulated GPP).

Regarding happiness, if the late Golden Age approach is to be used, I would suggest whipping Forges and Markets. Forges for the production cities and Markets for the GP farms.
 
Shadowed to 75BC after getting TGL. Went a vastly different opening -- city placement and tech path.

Spoiler :

So I pretend not knowing the map and start researching Hunting 1st since I might need archery if there's no horse in BFC.

Capital (settle 1E as I rate Levee highly)
Worker->Barrack->Settler at pop3->Char->Char->Warrior->Worker->Settler...

Tech:
Hunting->AH->Mining->Mys->Fishing->BW->Pottery->Writing->Aes->Pol->Lit->Drama


2nd city in 2520BC, aim to get the first GS here, all spots down south are garbage before IW. There are mostly jungles so AI won't consider them in high priority.


Settler is in blocking position and I don't want to settle it right away since it's a poor spot and my worker is not in position yet. I am willing to lose this one to Hannibal since the southern dye site is better. I'll leave it to next settler if it is still open then. You can see the spot where Hannibal's archer stands, it's best for him, but not for me.


3rd city -- intend to steal an improved rice from Hannibal. Previous settler on dye spot, again, it is garbage atm so I will leave it there until Hannibal's settler is approaching. Also, you can see that my 2nd city is mature now.


575 BC 1st GS was born. Even for such a great city of the wine spot, without Creative or Phi trait, my 1st GS is born in a relatively late date -- I fire scentists to allow city to grow in the middle, and it also helps to produce a couple of workers and warriors. Empire of 7 cities already and my economy is still very healthy. I could settle the 7th city to grab the far southeastern Fish/Cow/Wine city. But I have blocked enough room for more than 10 cities already and there's no new resource and I don't like to nerf my economy further.



Resume 100% reserach after building academy in capital, Lizzy already has Aes before me. Trade whatever I can to hurry to Literature -- including very small tech such as Masonry that being despised by many players.

And here it is I got TGL and an empire of 8 cities now and my preference of the gem city -- 8th city, can be 5th if it is in danger. Commercial resources are game breaking if you can grab very early, but not something under jungle.



Tech -- not bad. Having Currency before 1AD without any commercial resources being worked atm. Since there's too much room to be picked in this map, as long as you're still afloat in tech race, a little more room but a little backward does not hurt.



Stat -- Not surprise for a deity game, the reason why GP is so important.


 

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There are mostly jungles so AI won't consider them in high priority.

I don't remember technical details on how the AI judge's this. I always assumed it was just stupid and made no priorities at all on this matter.
 
Completely missed that barbcity. I can reach it and i should check it out asap of course. It's not much probably but 1 city on an island is always a good thing with the enhanced tr value.

@JammerUno, Artichoker.

6 turns to CS. It's decision time then. I think i need to switch civics at that time, even with this capital not switching to buro hurts. Maybe i can wait a few turns but no more i feel.

So basically the question is do i switch in or outside a GA. If i switch outside a GA then i think i should begin with switching Buro/HR and switch caste/pacifism later. I can use slavery somewhat longer in that case and have full pop + religion once i do switch caste/pacifism

If i switch in a GA i can switch all at once but i can also wait with caste/pacifism later growing instead of mass assigning specs, but losing the benefit of specs under a GA. Don't know what's best yet but these seem to be my options atm. it depends a bit on how fast Han and Liz are moving towards lib i think.

@Duckweed, looks quite good but i think you were lucky to get so much land in the south after settling winecity first, well we discussed that.
 
If Hereditary Rule is your priority, then I would recommend sticking with your current plan of switching to a Golden Age right away.

After the Golden Age is over, I would even recommend staying in Pacifism. You can leave Pacifism later in a different Golden Age, or part of a 1-turn switch. With a Pacifism/Slavery combo, you can whip buildings to provide more specialist slots, while improving your infrastructure.

Delaying the Golden Age can work well if you don't need Hereditary Rule (for example, if you got a lot of happiness from resources/traits/UB), because then you can still gain some bonus GPP from Pacifism while preparing for the Golden Age, and delay Hereditary Rule.
 
I would probably choose HR/bureau, with a switch to CS/paci in a GA later. I just feel your overall population is too low to warrant a GA. The benefits of a GA now would be the turns not spent in anarchy, with no significant commerce or production boost.

Wine city can run 5 specs at size 9. With paci/GA that's a ton of GPP to throw away. Ofcourse, it won't grow to that size very soon, but size 6/7 is attainable very quicky with a chopped granary and lighthouse. Further south, every riverside cottage will get an extra commerce, but you don't have any. What kind of benefit are you aiming for here? GPP, production, commerce? Either would have beter results with some more growth, so if you don't need a GA now to stay competetive, I would postpone it another 15-20 turns.
 
I would probably choose HR/bureau, with a switch to CS/paci in a GA later. I just feel your overall population is too low to warrant a GA. The benefits of a GA now would be the turns not spent in anarchy, with no significant commerce or production boost.

Wine city can run 5 specs at size 9. With paci/GA that's a ton of GPP to throw away. Ofcourse, it won't grow to that size very soon, but size 6/7 is attainable very quicky with a chopped granary and lighthouse. Further south, every riverside cottage will get an extra commerce, but you don't have any. What kind of benefit are you aiming for here? GPP, production, commerce? Either would have beter results with some more growth, so if you don't need a GA now to stay competetive, I would postpone it another 15-20 turns.

I agree with the supporting arguments, but not the conclusion.

Although Dirk's cities indeed have low population, the advantage of making 4 civic switches at one time, during a GA, cannot be overlooked. Additionally, it comes at a critical time when the tech race is starting to get tight.

Although the Wine city is a significant future source of GPP at a larger size, waiting for a GA is not the only way to harness that potential, and not the absolute best way either.

Another way to do so is to go with the current plan and start a GA right away, switching to Caste System + Pacifism. After the GA ends, switch back to Slavery but keep Pacifism.

When Pacifism + Slavery is run long-term, the GPP accumulated during that time can be more than the GPP gained with Pacifism + Caste System during a GA. This is because the benefits of Pacifism are simply strong enough to warrant using it in the long term.

However, if you apply that thinking to the delayed GA strategy, then running Pacifism after the GA ends will not be as significant because bulbing opportunities from the great people you gain will not be as good.
 
^I don't see how bulbing will decrease in value very much before 1000 AD, so that's not really an argument. As long as your bpt is significanty lower than bulbing returns, bulbing gives added value.

If the plan is to go paper, edu, lib, after CS, I would actually wait with a GA altogether and save the GS to partially bulb education, then have a GA with the next one to get Oxford up fast and tech lib.

The alternative would be a GA now, at the cost of a GS, to produce a GS, which is a total waste of everyone's time. You already have a GS available. The GA won't be of much use besides a civics change, and that's pretty hefty costs for a GS. You're talking bulb beakers vs. lost resources, and the bulb beakers will certainly outweigh those.
 
It depends on whether the tech gained by bulbing is actually on the research path of what you are trying to get. In many cases, it isn't.

For example, at the time Scientific Method is bulbable, other tech paths are often of higher priority. Sometimes Scientific Method is even avoided, because of wonders such as the Great Library and the Parthenon.
 
Also on deity you can almost always get SM in trade early, i often avoid bulbing PP for the same reason.

I'm sure you know this better than the rest of us. Once the Scientific Method bulb is enabled, it becomes the Achilles' Heel of GP generation. This especially applies when you have the Great Library and/or the Parthenon (and you have both...), because often in this situation you will want delay getting SM (even through trade) so that these wonders can continue working.

Since there is a near consensus that we will not be in Caste System after the GA ends, specialist slots during the post-GA period will be determined by each city's buildings. Invariably, due to cost concerns, the Library will be a source of some of those slots.

Once the SM bulb becomes an Achilles' Heel, we can still rely on merchants for GP generation, to enable trade missions, but there is still a chance to pop a Great Scientist. The only way to fully avoid this situation is to have the GP boom occur before the SM bulb is enabled.

Astronomy and Chemistry are the "second wind" of GP generation, because they are techs that are rarely harmful and usually have good trade value. I think we should aim to have the later part of the GP boom come no later than the time when Astronomy and Chemistry bulbs are available.
 
Lurker's comment:

There's no monopoly protection on SM and Printing Press, that's way it's easy to get it. Replaceable Parts as well along with some previous techs like Alphabet and Monarchy.


Pictures gone, bandwidth exceeded...uh
 
Lurker's comment:

There's no monopoly protection on SM and Printing Press, that's way it's easy to get it. Replaceable Parts as well along with some previous techs like Alphabet and Monarchy.


Pictures gone, bandwidth exceeded...uh

I recommend opening a new Photobucket account and putting the new images there.



Dirk, how is the planning and/or game play going?
 
Hmmmm images gone, that's no good.How do i open a new account, need a new email address for that i'd think? I will play before or on Sunday.
 
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