No Modding Tools, Please!

[The_J]

I don't think the comparison of Civ and Spore makes sense.

Like we now know, Spore is more for casual gamers than for a hardcore strategy gamer.
For these people, the spore "modding tools" are perfect.
In a group of hardcore gamers, you can also expect computer addicted people, who maybe could expect more advanced tools (or full access).
-> different target group, the comparison doesn't make sense.

[Flay]

Originally Posted by Afforess

Really, what we have here is a disagreement of definition. We disagree on what, fundamentally, modding is. In my opinion, using the world builder is not modding; if it IS modding, then settling a city is modding, because you just added new content.

And Afforess give a good and heavy punch with that one . . .

very enternaining thread . . .

[AlphaShard]

I disagree with the title of the thread so much, games that last and continue are the ones that Fans can add to. Take Baldur's Gate series, this was a game that wasn't intended to be modded but because it can be it is still played quite alot today. Same with games like the Sims, if you can add to and basically evolve the game you can extend it's gaming life. If you don't like the mods, or it's tools, ignore them it's really too easy to do.

[Yakk]

Originally Posted by Tecibbar

Modding is over-rated. Most players never mod or play a mod. To satisfy the need of a few hard-core fanatics, or make more money by bringing the game out early. Not a hard choice.

*nod*, this too. However, what they also get is:
# Deep code-level QA to fix bugs.
# User created content to toss into the next expansion pack.
# Tools that they can use in-house to mod their own game for scenarios, or to make it work right initially.
# Some Buzz from the larger mods, which shows up on gaming websites as "omg, look at what a user did!"

Releasing modding tools (like XML files) that are used internally to make their game work is a low-cost method. Writing up super user-friendly tools for users that don't expect "if you do the wrong thing, nothing works" as being acceptable ... is a huge investment, or requires that your "mods" be very superficial.

[LDiCesare]

Originally Posted by Tecibbar

Modding is over-rated. Most players never mod or play a mod. To satisfy the need of a few hard-core fanatics, or make more money by bringing the game out early. Not a hard choice.

Also consider that mods have been included in patches (the first one in Civ IV being the score graphs, just reinstall out of the box and despair), and (paying) expansion packs.

[mathepic]

Originally Posted by AlphaShard

I disagree with the title of the thread so much, games that last and continue are the ones that Fans can add to. Take Baldur's Gate series, this was a game that wasn't intended to be modded but because it can be it is still played quite alot today. Same with games like the Sims, if you can add to and basically evolve the game you can extend it's gaming life. If you don't like the mods, or it's tools, ignore them it's really too easy to do.

Then read the thread. He isn't opposed to modding.

[Afforess]

Originally Posted by AlphaShard

I disagree with the title of the thread so much, games that last and continue are the ones that Fans can add to. Take Baldur's Gate series, this was a game that wasn't intended to be modded but because it can be it is still played quite alot today. Same with games like the Sims, if you can add to and basically evolve the game you can extend it's gaming life. If you don't like the mods, or it's tools, ignore them it's really too easy to do.

Did you willfully misread the OP?

[hewhoknowsall]

Originally Posted by Afforess

It's success or failure will be defined by how moddable it is. If you give us less tools than we have for Civ4, I won't play it.

...am I missing something here?

[Afforess]

Originally Posted by hewhoknowsall

...am I missing something here?

Apparently, because modding tools will ruin modding, if you'd have read the thread, or some part of it, you'd know that.

[hewhoknowsall]

Originally Posted by Afforess

Apparently, because modding tools will ruin modding, if you'd have read the thread, or some part of it, you'd know that.

So you won't buy the game if it has less modding tools than Civ 4, but you don't want any modding tools?

[Afforess]

Originally Posted by hewhoknowsall

So you won't buy the game if it has less modding tools than Civ 4, but you don't want any modding tools?

You've confused modding with modding tools. Civ4 has no useful modding tools to speak of. That hasn't limited mods at all. Take Civ3, with it's modding tools; they have limited modding. I don't want Civ5 to be like Civ3.

[hewhoknowsall]

Oh...ok then.

[Thorburne]

Originally Posted by Afforess

Lol. I chose that wording just for you.

LOL, I think that may have been the most civil exchange that we've had the entire thread. Honestly, I wasn't sure if it was by chance that you said that, or if you just read my sig and threw it out there. Either way, I couldn't resist the bite.

Anyway, I still don't agree with you, but thanks for being a sport. In the end, whatever the case, we'll just have to see what happens.

[Afforess]

Originally Posted by Thorburne

LOL, I think that may have been the most civil exchange that we've had the entire thread. Honestly, I wasn't sure if it was by chance that you said that, or if you just read my sig and threw it out there. Either way, I couldn't resist the bite.

Anyway, I still don't agree with you, but thanks for being a sport. In the end, whatever the case, we'll just have to see what happens.

It wasn't chance, Princess Bride was/is one of my favorite movies, and well...

[mamba]

From a short preview : "It's not surprising given Jon's background that the new version of Civilization will be even more moddable than Civ IV. All the tools have been taken to a whole new level, so the more you know about XML and programmable DLL, the more you'll be able to achieve with the game."

Sounds like xml and source code are still in, no matter what else they do on top of that

[Bezhukov]

Originally Posted by Rexflex

I can't think of any technical reason why the AI can't be taken out of the source code. When it comes down to it, AI is just a (complex) set of instructions about how the computer administered opponents or automated player units/cities should react to certain circumstances. That stuff could well be written in python.

The reason isn't technical. It's related to the reason we pay Firaxis programmers money and modders compliments.