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Old Aug 17, 2010, 11:45 PM   #1
tmiddled
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Archery - Do you use it?

Hi all,

Does anyone ever tech archery? I have been playing emperor the last few games, and still never tech it. Other than once or twice (in which I then teched it), I have always manage to find iron or copper and go straight to superior units.

Does anyone use archery, and how do they use it?

Tom
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 11:51 PM   #2
Darth Fred
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I do.

It's good for defense early on and can be upgraded to long bowmen. First strike is nice too.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 12:16 AM   #3
Psyringe
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I often skip archery, because on the higher difficulty levels all AI rivals get it for free anyway, so there's a good chance that I can trade for it sooner or later. It also means that archery has zero trade value if you research it yourself.

This strategy does leave my cities a bit vulnerable until tech trading starts to kick in though, so I deviate from it when I find myself in a situation where early defense gets important.

Also, if you have neither copper nor iron nor horses in your reach, archers may be the only choice unless you want to keep sacrificing warriors.

Last edited by Psyringe; Aug 18, 2010 at 12:19 AM.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 12:29 AM   #4
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Nope. Generally I play with no barbs, so archery is 100% useless for me.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 12:44 AM   #5
itg
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I usually skip archery unless I want a horse archer rush. For that matter, I often skip hunting, too. Can't speak for deity, but you can consistently handle the barbs with warriors on any other level, at least until you get chariots or axes.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 01:14 AM   #6
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Only take it if I need it for horse archer UU.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 01:16 AM   #7
Moroktonos
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Archery is required for horse archers / Cho Ko Nus which are very useful.

On large open maps (few / far off neighbors) on which you can anticipate getting heavily hit by barbs on high levels where you can't always afford to tech both bronze working and animal husbandry / connect horses or bronze fast enough, archers can be useful, but these conditions don't apply to a serious majority of games.

Archers are cheap, and are consequently hammer effective defenders against early ai DOW stacks (what early unit is really effective at killing well defended archers?). Though if the stacks are big enough, and you don't have at least the possibility of better units, you are still probably dead. Someone else can go into more details, but I feel this is the essence of the matter.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 04:49 AM   #8
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Nope. Generally I play with no barbs, so archery is 100% useless for me.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 04:54 AM   #9
lymond
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I rarely self-tech it. It's a dead in tech although a prereq for certain units. Archery is easily begged for or tacked on in tech trades with the AI by the time you really need. Only time I may got for it early is if a Horse Archer rush is an option.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 06:49 AM   #10
revengeofmakno
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If one does not need to do extensive defending in the pre-gunpowder era, then archery is not essential. That is a tricky thing to pull off but if you are on a big offensive roll early that does not require horse archers, that could continue until gunpowder and beyond. However, if defending is something you will be doing, longbows are clearly one on the strongest and easiest to produce units available. Likewise, horse archers/keshiks are, for a time, the prime raiding and fast attack unit. Given that, while archery might not be your highest priority, it is very handy to have and not expensive to research or trade for.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 09:00 AM   #11
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Times for archery:

- no strategic resources + lots of open land
- spawn near super warmonger and can abuse the hill defense to make them one of the best defensive options you posses
- Horse archers
- skirmishers
- HR garrison if you manage to hook metal and can't make warriors.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 09:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moroktonos View Post
Archers are cheap, and are consequently hammer effective defenders against early ai DOW stacks (what early unit is really effective at killing well defended archers?).
Chariots do decently with their immunity to first strikes. They aren't a hard counter, though; you just get a lot closer to breaking even unit-for-unit with them than with most other units.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 10:37 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by tmiddled View Post
Hi all,

Does anyone ever tech archery? I have been playing emperor the last few games, and still never tech it. Other than once or twice (in which I then teched it), I have always manage to find iron or copper and go straight to superior units.

Does anyone use archery, and how do they use it?

Tom
I used it in the game I started yesterday...self-teched, Barbarians were spamming at me. Maybe I over-reacted.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 12:03 PM   #14
obsolete
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Quote:
Generally I play with no barbs, so archery is 100% useless for me.
If we are going along those lines... one might as well start off with, "Generally I play with no barbs, so any military units are 100% useless for me."
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 02:58 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Chariots do decently with their immunity to first strikes. They aren't a hard counter, though; you just get a lot closer to breaking even unit-for-unit with them than with most other units.
Chariots don't have an innate immunity to first strikes.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsolete View Post
If we are going along those lines... one might as well start off with, "Generally I play with no barbs, so any military units are 100% useless for me."
Um, no. I suppose it's about 80-90% useless. When I start next to a warmonger, I will tech it. When I play as Mongolia or Mali, I will tech it. When I NEED to do a HA rush, I will tech it (but I rarely find myself doing that, perhaps it's a problem with my classical warfare .) I still war. And I still rush (usually with Axes or Chariots depending on my resources, but I don't rush mid-classical unless Mongolia or Rome/Aztec). I really don't see the connection there. I find Axes/Spears better for defence if I have Copper or Iron, when I don't I might tech Archery if I find my neighbours likely to attack me mid-classical.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:04 PM   #17
Ataxerxes
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Chariots do decently with their immunity to first strikes. They aren't a hard counter, though; you just get a lot closer to breaking even unit-for-unit with them than with most other units.
Only the great War Chariot is immune to first strikes. The AI seems to prize the tech highly, though, so I trade for it early. As mentioned, you can often beg for it or use it as a throw-in on another trade. With all the AI's having it, the cost for it in a trade is pretty cheap.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:37 PM   #18
Derakon
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Oh you're right. My bad.

I guess the only contemporary counters to Archers are horse archers and some unique units, then.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 03:48 PM   #19
Kid R
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It's a cheap tech, especially if you start with hunting or need it for a good BFC tile. Much cheaper than masonry or meditation that people always suggest blowing on for no good reason.

Filling the land with fogbusting warriors costs that you might just as well spend on the tech and be able to handle barbs.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 04:41 PM   #20
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It's good for early defence, and you can upgrade it to a Longbowmen (which is the best non-Gunpowder age unit for defence).
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