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Old Oct 18, 2010, 04:27 PM   #1
Gazebo
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Post City State Diplomacy Mod (Updated)





City-State Diplomacy Mod (CSD)



- Mission -

To give Civilization V a better, more realistic simulation of geopolitics via a new system of city-state diplomacy.


- Design Philosophy -

This mod is a complete overhaul of the city-state diplomacy system. It removes the 'Gifts of Gold' mechanic, introduces a new, unit-based system of influence, and adds many new city-state quests. This mod also greatly enhances the World Congress by adding additional means of gaining votes, new congress resolutions, and strategies for players that wish to use diplomacy to harm other players and benefit themselves.

Players are encouraged to build and use diplomatic units and/or complete city-state quests if they wish to earn influence. Because city-state diplomacy now requires production, time, and planning, players must actively and consciously strive to maintain good relations with city-states throughout the game. Furthermore, diplomatic units, being defenseless, are liable to capture or destruction if sent too far from safety, thus long-distance city-state diplomacy now utilizes a risk-reward system. In short, CSD brings geopolitics to CiV, thus forcing players to adapt to varied diplomatic situations with each new game.

All of the features of CSD, from diplomatic units to world congress resolutions, have been thoroughly tested for balance, compatibility and gameplay value. Every feature works, and CSD has been tested extensively for stability and performance. Of these features, the most exciting are CSD's tweaks and additions to the AI. The AI has been trained to utilize every new system in CSD, and will play a much smarter diplomatic game in and out of the World Congress. For example, the AI has been trained to spend its gold on buildings and units it needs, to compete for the favor of geographically significant city-states, and to use the new World Congress resolutions to either gain influence for itself, or to deny influence to other players. Do not be surprised if you see diplomatic units from many different civilizations criss-crossing the world, and your empire, in search of city-state allies!

- Screenshot Showcase -
Spoiler:


Example of Diplomatic Unit icon artwork.


Diplomatic Units as seen in-game.


Sample of Building icon artwork.


Sample of National Wonder icon artwork.



- This Mod Includes -

This mod includes 4 new diplomatic units, one new great person, one new specialist, one new improvement, two new diplomacy-centric buildings, six new national wonders, three world wonders, a modified Patronage tree, six new world congress resolutions, seven new city-state quests and a modification of the AI's city-state diplomacy mechanic. There are also balance tweaks to religious beliefs, policies and civilization traits, as well as an intelligent system for AI gold purchasing of buildings and units. See the spoiler below for more details.

______________


______________

CSD-BNW Version 22 Contents:
1.) The Diplomatic Units:
  • Emissary (unlocked at Writing); Costs 1 Paper.
    Promotion: Initiate– Grants 20 Influence from Diplomatic Missions.
  • Envoy (unlocked at Education); Costs 2 Paper.
    Promotion: Adept– Grants 30 Influence from Diplomatic Missions.
  • Diplomat (unlocked at Industrialization); Costs 3 Paper.
    Promotion: Professional– Grants 40 Influence from Diplomatic Missions.
  • Ambassador (unlocked at Atomic Theory); Costs 4 Paper.
    Promotion: Plenipotentiary– Grants 50 Influence from Diplomatic Missions.
  • Great Diplomat; Great Person.
    Promotion: Master Diplomat - Grants 75 Influence from Diplomatic Missions. Can also build the Embassy in City-State lands, which grants +1 World Congress vote.

2.) The Buildings:
  • Chancery (unlocked at Civil Service)+15% Diplomatic unit production. Receive 1 Free Envoy when built. Produces 1 Paper. Grants 'Royal Signet' Promotion, which increases Influence earned by Diplomatic Units produced in the city where it is built.
  • Wire Service (unlocked at Steam Power): +25% diplomatic unit production. Produces 1 Paper. Grants 'Wire Service' Promotion, which boost Movement speed of Diplomatic Units produced in the city where it is built.
  • Scrivener's Office (unlocked at Writing) +25% Diplomatic unit production. Receive 1 Free Emissary when built. Produces 1 Paper. Can only be built in the Capital.
  • Gutenberg Press (National Wonder - unlocked at Printing Press): +25% diplomatic unit production. +1 Culture, produces 2 Paper. +1 Diplomat Great Person Points. Grants all Diplomatic Units the 'Literacy' Promotion (+1 Movement, Increased influence from missions, Ignore Terrain Penalties). Requires a School of Scribes in all cities.
  • Foreign Office (National Wonder - unlocked at Railroad): +50% diplomatic unit production. Produces 4 Paper. +1 Diplomat Great Person Points. Grants all Diplomatic Units the 'Diplomatic Immunity' Promotion (Boosts influence gained from missions, allows travel through foreign territory without an open borders agreement).
  • World Trade Organization (unlocked at Nuclear Fission) +25% Food and Gold in the city where it is built. Produces 4 Paper. Receive one free vote, and one vote in the World Congress for every Declaration of Friendship you currently have with other players. (Freedom only)
  • Hall of Honor (unlocked at Rocketry) +15 Tourism and Faith in the city where it is built. Produces 4 Paper. Receive one free vote, and one vote in the World Congress for every enemy capital you control. (Autocracy Only)
  • Palace of Science and Culture (unlocked at Computers) +25% Science and Culture in the city where it is built. Produces 4 Paper. Receive one free vote, and one vote in the World Congress for every Research Agreement you have. (Order Only)
  • Forum Romanum (World Wonder - unlocked at Mathematics): +25% diplomatic unit production. Produces 1 Paper. 1 Great Diplomat when completed. +1 Diplomat Great Person Points. Grants all Diplomatic Units the 'Imperial Seal' Promotion (Boosts influence gained from missions and movement speed).
  • Summer Palace (World Wonder - unlocked at Gunpowder): +25% diplomatic unit production. +1 Culture. Produces 2 Paper. +1 Diplomat Great Person Points. Grants all Diplomatic Units the 'Nobility' Promotion (Boosts influence gained from missions, movement speed, and allows travel through foreign territory without an open borders agreement). Receive a free Chancery in the city where it is built.
  • Grand Canal (World Wonder - reward from Treasure Fleet Project): Grants 1 free trade route, and the Treasure Fleet promotion (+1 sight, +1 movement, +10% Strength and heal outside borders for all non-sub/carrier naval units).

3.) Policies: Patronage Branch
  • Consulates: Resting point for Influence with all City-States is increased by 15. The Gutenberg Press boosts Gold production by 10%.
  • Philanthropy: Quantity of Resources gifted by City-States increased by 100%. Happiness from gifted Luxuries increased by 50%. Schools of Scribes produce 1 Happiness.
  • Cultural Diplomacy: Receive 1 Influence per turn with City-States with which you have Trade Routes. The Foreign Office produces +3 Culture.
  • Merchant Confederacy: +4 Gold for trade routes with City-States. 25% faster production of Great Diplomats.
  • Scholasticism: All City-States which are Allies provide a Science bonus equal to 25% of what they produce for themselves. Telephone Networks boost Science production by 10%.

4.) World Congress: Resolutions (DLL-version only)
  • Enact Open Door Policy: All civilizations have their influence set at 40 with target city-state. Available with Economics.
  • Demand Sphere of Influence: Proposing civilization has their influence set at 150 with target city-state. Available with Industrialization.
  • Enforce Decolonization: Ally of target city-state has their influence reduced to 50. Available with Radio.
  • AAC (Aerospace Advisory Council): Gives a -25% production penalty when building SS parts, +25% gold cost for SS parts and +25% faith cost for engineers. Available at Rocketry.
  • Treasure Fleet: (Available at start of WC) - has the following tiers:

    a.) Bronze: Frigate and 2 happiness.
    b.) Silver: Admiral and 3 free maintenance for military units.
    c.) Gold: Grand Canal
  • Global Wargames: (unlocks at Replaceable Parts) - has the following tiers:

    a.) Bronze: Infantry and 3 free maintenance for military units.
    b.) Silver: Great General and 100% Tourism for 20 turns.
    c.) Gold: +25% attack power for 30 turns.

4.) City-State Quests (DLL-version only)
  • Build National Wonder: The first civilization to build the specified national wonder receives influence. Is a personal quest.
  • Declare War on a Major: When a city-state is bullied, there is a chance that they will ask you to declare war on a major for them. Doing so earns influence.
  • Find a City-State: Find an unmet city-state to increase influence. Quest prioritizes distant city-states.
  • Tourism Race: The capital with highest Tourism-per-turn output after 30 turns gains influence.
  • Influence Boost: +25% influence from Diplomatic Missions with city-state for 30 turns.
  • Circumnavigate: The first player to circumnavigate the globe gains influence.
  • Archaeology Quest: Race to be the first to dig up an archaeological site to gain influence. Works like the 'clear barbarian camp' quest, but for dig sites.
  • Liberation Quest: Liberate a City-State conquered by a rival civ to receive a major boost to your influence with the quest-giver, as well as a big boost from the liberated city-state.

5.) Other Changes:
  • Full Civilopedia Entries for all items included, modified or used with CSD.
  • New Resource: Paper produced by CSD buildings, used by CSD units. It is strategic, and can be bought/sold (but the AI values it greatly!).
  • New Improvement: Embassy can only be built by the Great Diplomat in City-State lands. When constructed, it grants +1 vote in the WC. A player cannot receive more than 1 vote per owned embassy in a City-State's land, and only the first Embassy in a City-State earns the vote.
  • 'Gift Gold' option disabled in favor of diplomatic units. Can be re-enabled in the options.sql file.
  • AI trained to use diplomatic unit system and to select targets based on distance, active quests, chance at becoming an ally, as well as alignment with victory goals. (DLL version).
  • AI trained to intelligently purchase units and buildings with gold (DLL version).
  • Swedish national trait modified. All Swedish diplomats begin the game with the 'Nobel Laureate' promotion, which grants all Diplomatic Units more influence from Diplomatic Missions. Starts disabled.
  • Mausoleum of Halicarnassus bonus tweaked to prevent exploitation. Now grants 20 Gold per great person expended and a Golden Age when finished. Starts disabled.
  • Charitable Missions Belief is now called 'Divine Right,' sets minimum City-State influence at 15 for city-states following this religion (instead of granting additional Influence from gold gifts).
  • Reliquary Belief changed to 15 Faith per expended Great Person (instead of 50). Starts Disabled.
  • Treaty Organization Freedom Ideology policy now grants +2 Influence per turn from trade routes (instead of +6).
  • Gunboat Diplomacy Autocracy Ideology policy now grants +2 Influence per turn from fear (instead of +4).
  • Mausoleum of Halicarnassus Grants Golden Age and less gold per great person expended. Starts disabled.
  • World Congress Tweaks to make the AI vote smarter for host, city-state embargo (Bismarck) and nuclear ban.
  • Embassy Tooltip to indicate player that built an Embassy.
  • Grand Temple produces 1 WC vote per 4 cities following your religion.
  • World's Fair unlocks at Industrialization.
  • Computers and Radio grant +25% empire-wide Tourism when researched.
  • Ideology Unhappiness increased, especially as a result of the Global Ideology WC resolution.
  • Options.sql in CSD main directory for mod customization and compatibility.
    Options include: tweak the competitiveness of the AI, the cost and influence value of gold gifts, enable/disable the Patronage policy modifications, tweaks to Sweden's trait, non-DLL AI changes, Beliefs, and more.

Instructions and Compatibility

Support for Gods and Kings and Brave New World is enabled by default in CSD BNW v22. It requires Brave New World in order to function.

If you are using Enhanced User Interface by bc1:
Spoiler:

Delete the CityView.lua file from the following folder:
Code:
C:\Users\~\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\City-State Diplomacy Mod (CSD) for Brave New World (v 20)\Assets\UI\InGame\CityView


If you are using the Communitas mod:
Spoiler:
Open the Options.sql file with a text editor in the following folder:
Code:
C:\Users\~\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\City-State Diplomacy Mod (CSD) for Brave New World (v 21)
Once opened, scroll down to this section and replace the higlighted '1' below with a '0' :

Code:
/*
CSD Patronage Policy Modifications
1 = Modified Patronage Policies Enabled (Default)
0 = Modified Patronage Policies Disabled
*/

INSERT INTO CSD (Type, Value)
VALUES ('CSD_POLICIES', 1);


To edit the Options.sql file:

Spoiler:
  • Open the Options.sql file with WordPad (or your word processor of choice)
  • Scroll down until you see the following:

    Code:
    /*
    Gold Gifting and Gold-Related Quests with City-States On/Off
    1 = Gold Gifts Enabled
    2 = Gold Gifts Disabled (Default)
    */
    
    INSERT INTO CSD (Type, Value)
    VALUES ('GIFT_OPTION', 2);
  • To enable gold gifts, change the integer after GIFT_OPTION to '1'
  • The final code should look like this:

    Code:
    /*
    Gold Gifting and Gold-Related Quests with City-States On/Off
    1 = Gold Gifts Enabled
    2 = Gold Gifts Disabled (Default)
    */
    
    INSERT INTO CSD (Type, Value)
    VALUES ('GIFT_OPTION', 1);
  • Save the file and launch the game!



To set support for Vanilla (non-G&K) Civ 5 in CSD v36 (not CSD-BNW):
Spoiler:
Open the Options.sql file (located in your Documents/My Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 5/MODS/City-State Diplomacy folder) and open it with textedit (or your text editor of choice). Here, scroll down until you see the following lines:

Code:
/*
Gods and Kings Expansion Compatibility
1 = Using Gods and Kings Expansion (default)
0 = Not Using Gods and Kings Expansion
*/

INSERT INTO CSD (Type, Value)
VALUES ('USING_GAK', 1);

Change the ('USING_GAK', 1) to ('USING_GAK', 0). Save the file, then open Civ 5 and load the mod normally.


Version History

Latest Version Updates (v. 22):
Spoiler:


New Resolutions

1.) AAC (Aerospace Advisory Council) - Gives a -25% production penalty when building SS parts, +25% gold cost for SS parts and +25% faith cost for engineers. Designed to hurt Spaceship victory.

2.) Treasure Fleet project (available at start of WC) - following tiers:

a.) Bronze: Frigate and 2 happiness.
b.) Silver: Admiral and 3 free maintenance for military units.
c.) Gold: Grand Canal

'Grand Canal' world wonder - grants 1 free trade route, and the Treasure Fleet promotion (+1 sight, +1 movement, +10% Strength and heal outside borders for all non-sub/carrier naval units).

3.) Modern Era project (unlocks at Replaceable Parts): Global Wargames

a.) Bronze: Infantry and 3 free maintenance for military units.
b.) Silver: Great General and 100% Tourism for 20 turns.
c.) Gold: +25% attack power for 30 turns.

Tweaks

1.)Added +25% empire-wide tourism boosts to Radio and Computers (so 50% total, followed by 100% at Internet).

2.) Tweaks to WC vote logic for existing CSD resolutions.

3.) Tweaked Ideology unrest rates (was at 1 unhappy per 10 citizens, is now 1 unhappy per 6 citizens) and Global Ideology unrest rate doubled from WC resolution.

4.) Warsaw Pact removed (end-game was a bit crowded, esp. with new national wonders).

5.) New artwork for a few buildings (Kwadjh's excellent submissions to the civfanatics database)

6.) Building/Unit costs for CSD stuff tweaked slightly (more expensive, marginally) - production % boosts for buildings increased across the board.

7.) Tooltip/Text cleanup and correction.

8.) Grand Temple gives 1 vote in WC for every 4 cities following your religion.

9.) Forum Romanum now 'Roman Forum,' grants a free Great Diplomat instead of two Emissaries.

10.) World's Fair unlocks at Industrialization (as it should)

New Buildings

a.) WTO: +25% Food and Gold in the city where it is built. Produces 4 Paper. Receive one free vote, and one vote in the World Congress for every Declaration of Friendship you currently have with other players. (Freedom only)

b.) Hall of Honor: +15 Tourism and Faith in the city where it is built. Produces 4 Paper. Receive one free vote, and one vote in the World Congress for every enemy capital you control. (Autocracy Only)

c.) Palace of Science and Culture: +25% Science and Culture in the city where it is built. Produces 4 Paper. Receive one free vote, and one vote in the World Congress for every Research Agreement you have. (Order Only)



Old Changes:

Spoiler:


Last G&K/Vanilla Update (v35):

1.) Compatibility with the Fall Patch
2.) Includes small tweaks to the AI
3.) Ability to enable/disable gold gifts in the Options.sql file

BNW Updates (v.1-8):
1.) Compatibility with the Brave New World
2.) Uses new content from Brave New World, including variable Influence gain.
3.) Small tweaks and changes to all aspects of mod (balancing, etc.)

v. 9-16
1.) Fixed save-game problem
2.) Tweaks for balance.
3.) DLL and non-DLL versions created).
4.) Re-written largely in SQL.
5.)Dll version includes new resolutions, new AI for purchases and tweaks to merchant AI.
6.) New city-state quests, great person, and more! (see above)

v. 17-19
- Fixed the Sphere of Influence resolution (was granting all players 150 influence- oops!),
- Tweaks to voting rules for World Congress Resolutions
- Tweaks to citystate selection for messengers/diplomats
- Tweaks to unit/building costs, flavors and influence earned (decreased costs across board and decreased influence earned from missions to keep influence totals in late-game manageable).
- Decreased movement bonuses from diplo promotions to keep AI pathfinding manageable in the late game (more plots to look at = more lag).
- Fixed crash related to attempted pathfinding across water without embarkation
- Fixed crash related to world congress events trying to access allied data for non-allied city-states
- Fixed crash related to AI trying to ask city-states for research agreements (that one was fun to figure out)
- Fixed crash related to world congress events trying to give influence to the wrong players and/or query the MinorCivAi of MajorCivs (also fun)
- Added a new quest (and the final one I had planned), Liberation, in which minors will ask players to liberate a conquered CS (does not trigger for Venice/Austria takeovers, and fails if you conquer the city-state). Is worth 80 influence, so you get two allies (probably) for the price of one liberation!
- Tweaked pathfinding values for messengers.
- Cleaned up old/unneeded code throughout DLL (sorry Whoward)
- Updated tooltips to reflect changes.
- Added check for AI to see if it needs/wants diplo units, and decreased FLAVOR_DIPLOMACY for all units.
- Added 1 Paper Resource to Palace for all players, available at Writing, that helps the AI prioritize important buildings while also getting out diplomatic units earlier (this also makes sense, flavor-wise for the mod).
- Decreased Paper production for all buildings (helps with units spam)
- Modified values for AI regarding trades for Paper (should be harder to buy up now than before)
- Decreased interval between WC events from 30->25; 25->20, 20->15 (for each stage up to UN stage)
- Added a third proposer to the WC (was just two) - more proposals, more fun, and a stronger WC to boot.
- AI a bit smarter with diplo units (less likely to wander into enemy lines during war, etc.).
- New icons for quests (to help distinguish them from other quests).
- Tweaks to Civil Servant specialist (added +1 production and an additional -1 Gold - this should help AI a lot).
- Boosted GD GP rates on national and world wonders.
- Disabled all nonessential tweaks in options.sql by default. This includes beliefs, traits, and wonders.
- Removed legacy CEP stuff and cleaned up code.
- Re-did messenger pathfinding (again). Much better now.
- Reduced production costs across board for units, balanced building costs.
- Reduced flavors further (Esp. late-game)
- Added AI check for embassy ownership and gives them to conqueror if a player is defeated (returned to player if liberated)
- Tweaked WC voting for resolutions
- Added circumnavigation and archaeology checks for era and worldwrap
- Tweaked a few values for pathfinding and SQL AI.
- Added free 1 diplo unit to School of Scribes, 2 to Summer Palace and a Great Diplomat for Warsaw Pact.
- Reduced production % boosts dramatically (25%->15%, 50%-25%) and paper production; should control runaway diplo units late-game
- Shuffled units around on tech tree.

v20

AI Changes:
-Rewritten AI logic for building diplomatic units based on FLAVOR_DIPLOMACY and number of city-states in game. Essentially, it uses a threshold metric, which the AI has to surpass with a positive value to enable. The AI gets positive points for having less allies than it wants, also if rivals, enemies or competitors have a lot of allied city-states. It loses points for being a warmonger and/or bully towards city-states. This makes the AI a bit more reactive than ‘just build all the units’ like it used to be. Mongolia, for example, will rarely, if ever, build a diplomatic unit, whereas Siam will pump them out as fast as it can.
-Optimized pathfinding AI for Great Diplomat and Messenger. Messengers rarely, if ever, ‘linger about’ without a destination. If they do, it is because they can’t path to their city-state of choice, they haven’t met a city-state, or the city-states around them don’t match what they want. Great Diplomat choice (Embassy or Influence) based on FLAVOR_DIPLOMACY. Essentially, I subtract a player's flavor by 4, so that players with '5' want 1 Embassy, '6' want 2, and so on (5 is average for flavors). After that, the AI will go for influence.
- Players can change AI competitiveness for city-states in the Options.sql file. Just look for the CSD_DIFFICULTY option.

Quests:
-Redesigned Circumnavigation quest to fire based on earning circumnavigation, not entering the medieval era. Was resulting in quest spam for circumnavigation. Also made Circumnavigation a team-based quest, rather than player-based, so as to prevent team situations from doing wonky things.
-Adjusted National Wonder quest not to be ‘global’ – no longer cancelled if another player builds the national wonder. I did this because a.) it didn’t make sense and b.) the quest seemed nearly impossible to complete.
-'Find City State' quest won't fire until Middle Ages. Since most 'distant' minors are on other continents, this will prevent a buildup of dozens of requests. Hopefully.

Buildings:
-Moved School of Scribes to Medieval Era. Is now called a Chancery, with increased cost and benefit (also new art- orphaned vanilla art). It creates an Envoy when it is completed, so it is cost-effective, and gets the diplo ball rolling. Makes more sense to have a specialist building in the medieval period, and it benefits the AI. The current AI logic prioritizes everything over diplomacy in the early ages, as it should– moving the School up keeps the AI from lagging behind in other important infrastructural concerns early on.
-National wonder created for Ancient Age: Scrivener's Office. Grants 1 paper, 1 Emissary, and requires the Palace. Available at Writing. Can only be built in the capital, obviously. This fixes the problem with having the Palace grant 1 Paper – when you became an ally of a city-state, you got an additional paper!
-Telephone Network renamed to ‘Wire Service,’ new art (orphaned vanilla art)
-Civil Servant modified: gives 1 Gold, 1 Culture and 1 Science, but costs 1 Production. The AI is more likely to use it this way, as they AI loves gold (the old Civil Servant cost gold, which was a major malus for it).

Units:
-Costs adjusted for all units. Envoy now at Education, Diplomat at Industrialization. This helps the AI keep pace. Promotions adjusted as well to balance out with National Wonders.
-Influence gained adjusted for all units. Now goes 20 -> 30 -> 40 -> 50 (Emissary, Envoy, Diplomat, Ambassador, respectively).

Other:
-Text updates for everything. New tooltips, new strategies, new names, etc. Too much to list individually. Generally focused on readability and quality.
-Tweaked WC resolutions to tone down CSD resolution spam. No longer will you see 3 ‘Open Door’ Resolutions at the same time (hopefully).
-Tweaked voting logic for choosing the host of the world congress. AI actually considers how many votes it has, and votes for allies or friends accordingly. In short, if an AI has less votes than an ally or friend, they are more likely to vote for them than for themselves. This should actually make the host choice interesting, and makes allies a wee bit more important.
- Bismarck won't vote to embargo City-States, and players that are nuked will want to ban nukes (as well as players with more than 2 nukes already built.

v21:
- made few (very minor) positive tweaks to flavors for more city-state diplomacy
- fixed a rare pathfinding bug for Great Diplomats (dll)
- added a tooltip for Embassy to show player that built it (this helps with destroying rival embassies during war) (dll/lua)



Look for 'City State Diplomacy' in the Steam Workshop and in the Civfanatics downloads section.

Looking for older versions of CSD? Click here!
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Last edited by Gazebo; Apr 17, 2014 at 11:34 AM. Reason: v22 of BNW
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 07:08 AM   #2
V. Soma
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Posts: 3,047
wow!

In another thread I was just about complaining about city states and diplomacy victory

I will try this!
(perhaps with other modpacks, like CCMAT - I hope that will be possible...)
__________________
creator of:
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(A standard sized version of Rhye's Civ for Civ 3)


My civ5 ideas:
- Conditioned Technological Development | Unit maintenance & supply | Land Unit Combat idea for 2 UPT
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 07:11 AM   #3
V. Soma
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Gazebo, you write:
"you cannot save up your gold, build the UN and then buy off all the votes– you have to maintain good relations with your city-state friends by sending diplomatic units to them over a longer period of time."

Could you be more specific?
Is the mod with a Read me on things? Civpedia?

Keep up the promising work!
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creator of:
Clashing of Empires
(A standard sized version of Rhye's Civ for Civ 3)


My civ5 ideas:
- Conditioned Technological Development | Unit maintenance & supply | Land Unit Combat idea for 2 UPT
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 09:38 AM   #4
Gazebo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V. Soma View Post
Gazebo, you write:
"you cannot save up your gold, build the UN and then buy off all the votes– you have to maintain good relations with your city-state friends by sending diplomatic units to them over a longer period of time."

Could you be more specific?
Is the mod with a Read me on things? Civpedia?

Keep up the promising work!
Soma,

This mod is compatible with everything in the CCMAT except for R.E.D. For some reason, that mod makes the diplomatic units turn into spearmen!

So you can use it with CCMAT, just don't be alarmed if this happens.

As per your second question, I have fully updated the game's civilopedia and tooltips for the new system– the way the game's new mechanic works is as follows:

Researching 'Writing' will give you access to the first diplomatic unit, the Messenger. He has a move of 3 (ignoring terrain costs) and costs 100 Production to make (so he's quite expensive in the beginning). Once built (like any other unit), you have to move him across the game-map into a city-state's territory. Once in their territory, send him on a 'trade mission' by clicking the trade mission button on the left side (just like with Great Merchants). This will net you 50 influence points with the City-State and will expend the Messenger.

As you progress through the game, you will unlock buildings, policies and new units that make City-State diplomacy easier– each new diplomatic unit moves faster than its predecessor (i.e. Messengers move 3, Envoys move 4, Emissaries move 5, et. al.)– this simulates the increasing rapidity of communication throughout history.

Once you research globalization, you will have access to both the UN (as normal) and the Ambassador diplomat unit. The Ambassador has a move of 7 and, by the end of the game (if you've built the Foreign Office wonder and Forums in your cities) should be fairly easy to build. You will then have to send ambassadors to all of the world's city states to boost your relations with them if you want to win the Diplomatic Victory!

Does this make more sense?

Hope you enjoy it! I've worked on this quite a bit– unit graphics, icons, artwork, civilopedia entires and AI modifications are all customized and polished.

-G

Last edited by Gazebo; Oct 19, 2010 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Edited syntax and grammar to reduce confusion.
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 10:09 AM   #5
Sonereal
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RED doesn't turn your units into spearmen.
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 10:13 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sonereal View Post
RED doesn't turn your units into spearmen.
Are you saying you tried this mod and it didn't turn them into spearmen or that the purpose of R.E.D. isn't to turn your units into spearmen? Now I'm confused as well!

I know what R.E.D. is for (and enjoy using it), however the last time I tried to use it with this mod it caused my diplomatic units to look like squads of spearmen. Perhaps we each (unknowingly) removed the glitch that was causing this problem?

I'll test it out and let you know.

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Old Oct 19, 2010, 12:08 PM   #7
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Are you saying you tried this mod and it didn't turn them into spearmen or that the purpose of R.E.D. isn't to turn your units into spearmen? Now I'm confused as well!

I know what R.E.D. is for (and enjoy using it), however the last time I tried to use it with this mod it caused my diplomatic units to look like squads of spearmen. Perhaps we each (unknowingly) removed the glitch that was causing this problem?

I'll test it out and let you know.

-G
I meant that I'm playing with CCMAT which includes RED and your messenger units look like messengers, not spearmen.

Love this mod by the way.
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 12:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Sonereal View Post
I meant that I'm playing with CCMAT which includes RED and your messenger units look like messengers, not spearmen.

Love this mod by the way.
Excellent! It is probably because I switched to using settler pieces to make the new units (as opposed to the scout pieces I used in previous versions). I will update the mod info to inform people that it is, in fact, compatible with CCMAT.

I'm glad you like it! Any suggestions for improvement?

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Old Oct 19, 2010, 03:23 PM   #9
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Suleiman's new trait seems too powerful compared to Arabia only receiving +1 gold per route (in addition to their oil bonus). I would say give Ottomans +1 gold per route in addition to their base trait. The point of this mod appears to be to change diplomacy and adding other things may make people not want to play.
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 07:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Dhaeman View Post
Suleiman's new trait seems too powerful compared to Arabia only receiving +1 gold per route (in addition to their oil bonus). I would say give Ottomans +1 gold per route in addition to their base trait. The point of this mod appears to be to change diplomacy and adding other things may make people not want to play.
Thanks for the advice– I'll simply make this mod 'modular' (ha!) and allow players to choose their parts a la carte (Diplomacy/Medical Units/Suleiman's trait)

Will put them online once finished.

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Old Oct 19, 2010, 08:32 PM   #11
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Excellent! It is probably because I switched to using settler pieces to make the new units (as opposed to the scout pieces I used in previous versions). I will update the mod info to inform people that it is, in fact, compatible with CCMAT.

I'm glad you like it! Any suggestions for improvement?

G
Not really. The mod is simple but at the same time pretty deep. It increases the geopolitics of the game and as soon as PBEM is released, it'll probably make diplomacy games verrrrry interesting.

The AI is definitely using it to good effect. Siam actually has allies in my game.
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 09:21 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Sonereal View Post
The AI is definitely using it to good effect. Siam actually has allies in my game.
Ha! Good to know they are using them- hopefully not to excess...

How's the production balance? What's the average number of turns it is taking you to build one of the units?

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Originally Posted by Sonereal View Post
Not really. The mod is simple but at the same time pretty deep. It increases the geopolitics of the game and as soon as PBEM is released, it'll probably make diplomacy games verrrrry interesting.
That's what I was going for- one small addition that can change the game without destroying the vanilla gameplay.

One last question- what do you think about the Forum? Too strong, or not strong enough?

Also, the mod is now modular- I split Suleiman's Trait and the Medical units off into their own mods.

Thanks again,
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 01:47 AM   #13
V. Soma
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Can I come up with ideas?

I believe that getting influence over a CS should be scaled, based on:

- the civ that has the present BEST relation with the CS should be in best position to gain new influence,
say, 100% value
(eg. if I have allied relation, that is the best, no other major civ can have that,
so when I send a unit to the CS to gain influence, I get 100% value, say 50 influence points)
(also, if I am the first to get influence with the CS, in this case all civs have equal levels, so mine is "best" /no worse than the others'/


- all other civs, not with best position with the CS, trying to get influence,
should gain less than 100% value with the unit - there would be a formula to it...
the worse the position, the less inflence can be gained...
(eg. I am neutral, with bar filled up 2/3.
3 other civs are better: 1 allied, 1 friendly, 1 neutral with bar filled 4/5...
then I have hard time to gain influence on the CS, as it has 3 more important relations...
so I can get, say (calculated by the 3 better ones) sg. like 60% influence point gain with my unit sent there)


I hope you see the "method" idea

Basically:
The first who comes to contact and deal with the CS (investing influence there)
should be in better position than the others.
But any civ can work out the way to be in leader position...

The aim with this:
To make it more difficult for civs to "buy" votes at the end,
and to make it important that you get into contact with CS early, first,
and that you hold position with CS, "fighting" with other civs...

Has does this sound?
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 07:32 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by V. Soma View Post
Can I come up with ideas?

I believe that getting influence over a CS should be scaled, based on:

- the civ that has the present BEST relation with the CS should be in best position to gain new influence,
say, 100% value
(eg. if I have allied relation, that is the best, no other major civ can have that,
so when I send a unit to the CS to gain influence, I get 100% value, say 50 influence points)
(also, if I am the first to get influence with the CS, in this case all civs have equal levels, so mine is "best" /no worse than the others'/


- all other civs, not with best position with the CS, trying to get influence,
should gain less than 100% value with the unit - there would be a formula to it...
the worse the position, the less inflence can be gained...
(eg. I am neutral, with bar filled up 2/3.
3 other civs are better: 1 allied, 1 friendly, 1 neutral with bar filled 4/5...
then I have hard time to gain influence on the CS, as it has 3 more important relations...
so I can get, say (calculated by the 3 better ones) sg. like 60% influence point gain with my unit sent there)


I hope you see the "method" idea

Basically:
The first who comes to contact and deal with the CS (investing influence there)
should be in better position than the others.
But any civ can work out the way to be in leader position...

The aim with this:
To make it more difficult for civs to "buy" votes at the end,
and to make it important that you get into contact with CS early, first,
and that you hold position with CS, "fighting" with other civs...

Has does this sound?
I like these ideas a lot– the key will be figuring out how to code this in. We will have to hard-code that there can be only one 'ally' of a C-S at a time (perhaps by creating a new category of friendship: neutral (0), cordial (30), friendly (60), ally (90)). The problem with this, however, is that if it is easier to gain influence as an ally, then it might become near-impossible for another civ to gain influence in that city. We will have to figure this out (I imagine, since there is currently no mathematical language for this in the game, we will have to have access to the core files first).

Perhaps we could also make influence gain scale relative to your capital's distance to a city-state?

Good stuff!
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 07:51 AM   #15
V. Soma
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Yes, relative distance can also be a factor

I don't think it is bad that it is hard to gain influence for the civs that come late in order...
in fact, this is kind of the point in this idea!
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 07:52 AM   #16
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Isn't it already so that there is only one ally for a CS at a time?
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:01 AM   #17
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pretty interesting idea. May I make some suggestions?

You should have diplomatic units perform missions like the great merchant. Doing so will boost relations with the other civ or city state but consume the unit. You should still allow gold to boost relations but the amount you give will depend on how far you are away from them. So to gift a city state gold on the other side of the globe would cost lets say 500 while the one close to you would cost 250. Doesnt have to be those exact numbers, just giving an example. I'll def check this out.

Good luck!
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:12 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by blazekid87 View Post
pretty interesting idea. May I make some suggestions?

You should have diplomatic units perform missions like the great merchant. Doing so will boost relations with the other civ or city state but consume the unit. You should still allow gold to boost relations but the amount you give will depend on how far you are away from them. So to gift a city state gold on the other side of the globe would cost lets say 500 while the one close to you would cost 250. Doesnt have to be those exact numbers, just giving an example. I'll def check this out.

Good luck!
Blazekid,

Your first sentence is exactly what these units do, so yeah!

For the second, my only problem with that is that it puts us right back where we started in terms of gameplay– I still think that throwing money at a city-state is an...odd way of conducting diplomacy.

Glad your interested.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:14 AM   #19
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How's the production balance? What's the average number of turns it is taking you to build one of the units?
I've only used the Messenger so far (super slow game speed but with CCMAT). Production really isn't out of hand. The only thing I've noticed is that the AI likes to build them just to have around. In my current game, Japan has a ton of them but they don't have astrology (or whatever tech allows ocean-going) so they just have a butch of messengers hanging around.

Quote:
One last question- what do you think about the Forum? Too strong, or not strong enough?
The Forum, relatively speaking, takes a long time to build in my core cities but its pretty balanced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V. Soma View Post
Isn't it already so that there is only one ally for a CS at a time?
Yes.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:14 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by V. Soma View Post
Isn't it already so that there is only one ally for a CS at a time?
Yes– its early and I'm sleepy. I guess what I meant is that it shouldn't be possible for two people to gain benefits from the same C-S– it should be an 'all or nothing' affair.

And I agree that it should be difficult for Civs to gain influence over a CS if that CS is already an ally, but you don't want it to be so hard that players have to constantly build diplo units to make ends meet. Guess its just a factor of balance.

If you know how to code this, feel free to take a crack at it. I have no idea where to begin when it comes to distance equations, etc.

<-- History Professor, not a mathematician!

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