Military Department - Term 1

This is the war room, ladies and gents. Our duty is to provide our commander-in-chief with options, strategies, and contingency plans. We'll likely discuss many more sorties and campaigns than are ever carried out, but our great nation must be ready for ANY threat!

Mind you, I personally hope that our military might will never have to be pressed into service, nor put any of our sons and daughters in harm's way... we're not warmongers here.

That's why I'm appointing as deputies some courageous men known for their balanced, thoughtful approach to military planning and the avoidance of war.

joespaniel as Rear Admiral :ak47:
Knight-Dragon as Commander of the Army

These peaceloving fellows will someday be joined by a Commandant of the Air Force, should our research lead us to this path.

Our first formal war room planning session will commence after the selection of the civ.

Charis

Welcome General Charis. Our cabinet needs a valiant leader for our Military Department. Your reputation precedes you. Your campaigning and gallantry are well known throughout our citizenry. We look forward to the development of a grand military tradition adding color to our history. We hope that your future wars, unwanted though inevitable, not be protracted or futile. May your sword be swift yet merciful.

I hear and will serve, oh mighty leader!

That's why I'm appointing as deputies some courageous men known for their balanced, thoughtful approach to military planning and the avoidance of war.

joespaniel as Rear Admiral :ak47:
Knight-Dragon as Commander of the Army

These peaceloving fellows will someday be joined by a Commandant of the Air Force, should our research lead us to this path.

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You're joking, right? I seem to detect a strong whiff of sarcasm there. J/k.

The game hath begun. For the moment, suggest we keep pumping out settlers and warriors/spearmen and explore/expand as fast as possible.

Settlers, whenever possible, shld be escorted by mil units until they are used to found a new city. For protection fr marauding barbs.

Other than that, nothing much to elaborate on until we meet an AI civ.

What do you think, oh mighty leader?

Or first unit has been build (a warior) ,and is exploring right now the outskirt's of our young nation.I would ask from the millitary department to make a decission on the next unit's that would be build ,if they would be used for exploration or for the defense of our nation.

> For the moment, suggest we keep pumping out settlers and
> warriors/spearmen and explore/expand as fast as possible.

Well spoken gentle Knight Dragon. Our highest priority is expansion. Being Persians, we have a unique opportunity. Every warrior we pump out, as scout, MP, or settler escort, can be upgraded to an immortal. Saving precious production and using gold, we will be able to go from weak to MIGHTY in a few turns (if we have some gold in reserve).

Even when we get iron working, be sure to leave a city UN-connected with a barracks that can continue to crank out warriors

Our vote for next mil/scout unit: warrior. Next 2-3 in fact.
At some point, one spearman for looks.

Charis

The Department of Foreign Affairs supports an agressive scouting program. We need to meet some foreigners so we can mess with their affairs!

Members of the Military Department, and citizens of the realm. Your voices have been heard!

We are Persia. We have the Immortal. Our starting continent
belongs to us. Any others are intruders, tresspassers, and must be eliminated. This is not the statement of a warmonger, but a statement of our "Manifest Destiny" -- see my post in the Foreign Affairs thread. I can see that Minister Shaitan has a similar view of things.

AFTER the continent is ours, and after our Immortals have past into the history books, it is an open question where our destiny will lead us. I personally hope for a time of enduring peace... after our homeland is secured.

Here are some thoughts pertaining to our Manifest Destiny, presented to you Mr. President, for strongest consideration.

- Immortals are our GLORY. We are Persia.
- The most efficient path to an immortal stack-of-doom is to produce warriors cheaply, and later upgrade them to Immortals.
- This allows us to have more shields for needed city improvements and for more warriors
- Use these initial warriors to scout, scout, aggressively scout
- We'll want vets, not regulars, so we'll need Barracks, and more than one
- To have the gold NEEDED for this program, I must recommend a policy of MINIMUM/ZERO science after we learn Iron Working. I recognize the KEY need to have scientific knowledge, as would our science department, but i would submit that *research* is an inefficient way to do it. It's literally and exactly one half the gold cost to buy a tech as to spend it on beakers and research it ourselves, AND our foes are cheap when it comes to valueing tech that we research. As a scientific nation, our time will come, to be LEADERS in the tech race, but that time is not now. (Beginning of new era when we get a new and vital tech, for example)
- Forget Spearmen (for now!!) We'll want enough Immortals to handily subdue our continent, and due to lack of an upgrade path, NO MORE. Their defense equals that of the spearman, and offense quadruples it. The mortals have a LIMITED ROLE, in time and function, but that role is one of: Early Offensive War.
- In recognition of our scientific nature (opposed to religious) I can support the whipping of a library in about every city. At 40 shields it's the perfect size, and gives the highest bang-for-buck for culture and expanding our boundaries. And it fits with our late stage goal of being a scientific leader.

* Since our People have been given this continent, and we are following our destiny in claiming it, to NOT claim it would be sacriligeous. In fact, I would submit this early action not be derided by the term 'war', but rather....

The Immortal Jihad!!

The Jihad ends when and only when our starting continent is ours and ours alone.
General Charis

(PS It will be interesting to see if our starting position is an island or is one end of a huge pangaea!)

A very well-said and stirring speech, o mighty leader! Let's do it that way, at least until we find we aren't on a continental island.

Then I guess we'll simply expand to the max possible optimal size and then, ....... we'll see. Will be great if we're on one end of the pangaea; easier to defend strategically.

Do you need any Generals?

Originally posted by Shaitan
The Department of Foreign Affairs supports an agressive scouting program. We need to meet some foreigners so we can mess with their affairs!

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The Department of Trade agrees with this approach. We are pleased to find spices already, and hope to uncover other valuable deposits and luxuries within our immediate territory.

Bill_in_PDX
Trade Leader

> Do you need any Generals?

We need first louie's and majors and everything, although more in the field than in the boards

Not sure yet Das. If Joespaniel isn't a part of the democracy game I'll need to replace him. I was also thinking at some later point wanting an artillery and/or air force specialist.

Knight-Dragon... I do need some clarification. I think the deputization and the War Party came about, right about the same time. It was stated there that it was a civilian group. Should you be considered as a civilian/militian/national guard consultant with the ear of the Department, or as someone who left that group to take up a government position?

In any case, I'm glad to see not only the people's support, but the leaders' support, for the 'Persian' vision of destiny.

Charis

Okay, then, maybe you ened airborne/seaborne officers? Iam not only good at offensives and maneuvers, I am also good at landing operations (proved by my preivous Chinese game (not the SG one), when I captured Japan on a real world map).

Warriors for everything? have you been hit round the head by your enemies swords too many times Charis?!? Are cities will need defense and spearmen are still the best, by all means build up a good force of future immortals but dont leave us open to a hard sudden strike.

Kentonio

Originally posted by Kentonio
Warriors for everything? have you been hit round the head by your enemies swords too many times Charis?!? Are cities will need defense and spearmen are still the best, by all means build up a good force of future immortals but dont leave us open to a hard sudden strike.

Kentonio

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I disagree. A strong warrior force will discourage hostile actions better than a spartan spearman force. We can build multiple warriors for each spearman.

True, but every city should have at least one spearman in defense. Whats the point in having a poor defensive unit defending? I have no probs with warriors but each unit should be used for what it was intended for and warriors suck in defensive situations.

Kentonio

Originally posted by Charis
> Do you need any Generals?

We need first louie's and majors and everything, although more in the field than in the boards

Not sure yet Das. If Joespaniel isn't a part of the democracy game I'll need to replace him. I was also thinking at some later point wanting an artillery and/or air force specialist.

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I have already PM joe so ....... BTW, what are louie's?

I don't think it's necessary to have so many deputies and specialists though. Two deputies is already pretty irregular and besides, we're merely advising and planning and it's the Prez who'll make the moves. Most times, it's better to use combined-arms approach anyways.

And besides, most times, warmongers know as much bout artillery bombardment as about massed forward blitz attks or aerial bombardment or naval engagements. We'll serve as simple military officials is good enough.

Knight-Dragon... I do need some clarification. I think the deputization and the War Party came about, right about the same time. It was stated there that it was a civilian group. Should you be considered as a civilian/militian/national guard consultant with the ear of the Department, or as someone who left that group to take up a government position?

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Citizens' group, not civilian group. Something fun fr the older Civ2 demo game (at least, in its earlier days). I thought we need more stuff to spice up the game, rather than more boring gametalk.

I said I'll serve, didn't I, o mighty leader? Looking fw to some fun.

I for one support our Manifest Destiny, and agree that we should push forward aggressively to sieze our homeland.

As for the warrior/spearman debate, remember that you can build two warriors for the price of one spearman, which gives you twice the riot control, and I would argue in some ways a better defense. Sure, it is easier to defeat a warrior, but two warriors are not as vulnerable in the early game to wandering barbs or raiding parties. One lucky shot against a single spearman can lose a city, whereas at least with two warriors, the first attack can only take out one, leaving a garrison. The drawback, of course, is maintenance, but that usually isn't a problem under despotism. When we get ready to upgrade them to Immortals, we can look at replacing them with Spearmen.

You make a good point Justus. The single shot defeat could indeed lose us a city. As long as this is just an early measure I concede you the argument

Kentonio

Good to see these fine military minds thinking and sparking debate!

It's not a no-spearman thing, but a priority thing. Warriors may sit in a city ready for action and serving as MP, but I assure you (if Mr Prez follows our line of thinking) they will *never* defend our cities! As for barbarians, we will, with double the usual 'warrior' force, hunt them and mow them down like the dogs they are!! As for opposing civs... none of them will EVER attack one of our cities. They will be too busy rushing for cover, too late to see anything but a stack of immortals running over their towns like syrup over a dollar stack of pancakes!

For the same shields (the limiting factor), plus cash at the right time, you get two immortals for same production as two spears. Spears don't take cities. Spears don't BRING ABOUT manifest destiny. Spears who upgrade to mech infantry DEFEND that destiny.

EDIT-forgot this point- The AI measures a civ's strength purely by head count. 2x warriors means they consider us, and fear us, and give us good deals, twice as much as 1x spears.

It's not that I've been knocked over the head by too many swords, cadet, it's that our glorious immortals will be the ones brandishing the swords and caving in heads. No one should live to ever get an attack in on a Persian city! (Or in football terms, the best defense is a good offense)

Destiny,
Charis