PROD - Sirian's Training Day Game

Sirian

Designer, Mohawk Games
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
Messages
3,654
Location
Pennsylvania, USA
ChrTh has a good looking idea there. I'm willing to do my part, and I'll even go that one better. So I'm going to rearrange the rules a little bit for my version of the TDG.

Rather than play as a normal SG rotation, with me taking a turn every so often as I come up, and same for others, I'm going to play the whole game -- AND so is everybody else. However, instead of each playing the game separately, there will be one Official Game, progressing like a typical Succession Game.

It's going to look something like this:

Turn Order:
Sirian
Player 2
Player 3
Player 4
Player 5
Player 6
Player 7

Round one, 4000BC is posted and everybody plays. Everybody posts their turn report, including me, and I will always post my version of the save game. I'll offer my view of each player's moves, the good, the bad, the weedy. Questions are welcome, then at some point we move to next turn.

Since I was "Up", my save game is used by everybody, to start from for the next turn. Everybody plays and posts a report, and I will always post my version of the save. In this case, however, Player 2 is up, so he should also post his save. I'll offer feedback based on the reports (the more detail you put in your report, the more I can examine and critique, so you'll get out of it what you put in to it.) After the analysis is done, we move to next turn.

Since Player 2 was "up", his save is used by everybody to start the current round. And on and on it goes. Everybody plays the whole game and gets continuous critiquing (according to how detailed their reports are) and they get to see what I do in the exact same situations -- and those who are on the roster also get as much input into the course of events of the "Official Results" as they would in a standard succession game.

A little complex-sounding, but in practice it will be smooth and easy to deal with, I promise, especially as I'll handle directing the traffic and keeping track of what's where.


THE RULES:

* When you are Up, you are REQUIRED to play, and to do so in a timely fashion.

* When you are not Up, you are not required to play, but are strongly encouraged to play as much as you can. The more you play, the more critique you can get.

* No critiquing of other player's results, except by me. If you are playing in this game, then by definition you're no expert. Make sense? This rule is aimed at keeping each player's focus on their own performance and development, and off of getting into comparisons with the other players, and to minimize any chance for hostilities. Questions involving "what if" scenerios, regarding other players' results, are OK.

* No question is too dumb, no move too weedy, no results too poor. Nobody will be dropped or turned away for lack of skill or experience. This is your chance to stop being a wallflower and get out onto the dance floor.

* When you are Up, your results will be official, whether they are good, bad, or ugly. When you're not up, feel free to try stuff out, to take risks or do things you wouldn't normally ever dare, to see where it leads -- or play as if you were Up. Your choice.

* Since this is a training game, we're going to run 10 turns per player right from the very start.

* No worker automation, no goto orders that extend past the end of the ten turns.

* 30 hours for the player who is Up Next to acknowledge that they have Got It and are playing. This is a HARD RULE, so when you are On Deck or your turn is upcoming, you need to make sure you take time out to keep an eye on the board. If you do not acknowledge within 30 hours, you will be skipped as far as being Up and having your results affect the Official outcome.

* 96 hours maximum between every ten turn round. If the playing and reports and analysis finish eary, we'll move on early. If 96 hours comes around, we'll move on regardless.

* If the game gets to be too involved in the late stages, lots of units and too much stuff to do, I'll either extend the times or shorten the turn lengths.

* This thread is for the Official Game. What shall be posted here is the reports and results of the player who is Up on each turn, along with my critique and any questions and answers players have in regard to those results.

* The PROD Shadow thread will handle everything else, including the turn reports of all players not Up on that turn, all critiques of these reports, and even my own reports from my shadow turns.

* Players who are UP should avoid reading any further in the shadow thread once others start posting shadow reports from the same turn. IE, it's OK to refer back to the shadow thread as a reference, but I ask that you not do so when you're Up, especially in regard to finding out what others have done on the turn you're about to play, so that your official turn results will be as "pure" as you can manage under these conditions.


In order to qualify for this game, you must meet the following conditions:

* Rookie SG Player - zero SG experience probably, or at most no more than two SG's played (with unencouraging results).

* Rookie Civ III Player - never tried to play anything higher than Regent, or tried and failed at Regent or higher. (This is for those of you out there who are lost, struggling, and maybe a little scared of embarrassment, but would like to get involved and will step up and put your best effort forward, not only in the game but in your reports and in dealing with the analysis you get).

* You have time to devote to this. (You'll have just one day when you come Up to acknowledge your turn and begin to play. You have to play when you're Up. The more you play and the more you put into your reports, the more you'll get out of it).

* You believe you can see it through to the end.


Those who don't have enough time or otherwise do not qualify in some aspect are welcome to lurk the game, to play alongside the rest of us in the shadows and see how your results look and what you can learn. You may even, from time to time, post your own reports or ask questions, and I'll help you as I have time, but no guarantees. Only those officially participating are guaranteed any analysis.


Civ: English
Difficulty: Regent
Map: Standard
Settings: Standard
Barbarians: Roaming
Victory Conditions: All


I won't be ready to begin for several days at least, maybe a week. That should give players a chance to apply. I don't currently have a roster limit, waiting to see how much interest there will be.


- Sirian



ROSTER:

Sirian
ChrTh
Black Cursor
Rowain deWolf
Zot
Hotrod0823
Mardoc


Players on Standby:

Mystery13
Architect
 
Sirian,

I qualify as both a rookie SG player and as a rookie Civ III player (I beat Regent 50% of the time, can't play above that). Count me in!

(Although not only did you steal my Training Day idea, you also stole my Captain's Choice idea ;) )
 
EDIT: Sirian, it seems really complicated and a big nuisance to have to post saves and download saves every turn. Is there any better way to do this?
 
I'd be willing to guess that Sirian is picking the English because they're - shall we say - not one of the best civs. Commercial is almost certainly the worst civ trait, expansionist is great in certain conditions but worthless in others, and the English UU is... questionable at best. (Has anyone out there ever been saved by having the Man 'o War? Didn't think so :rolleyes: ) It reminds me of the infantry game startup (So barren! So desolate! So perfect!) ;)
 
Originally posted by Sullla
English UU is... questionable at best. (Has anyone out there ever been saved by having the Man 'o War? Didn't think so :rolleyes: )


:rotfl:
 
I'd like to join this one, too, please. My experience with SG's was part of EX1 before I got busy, and I'm not as busy anymore, and I may be better than I know, but I'm just starting to work up the levels. One qualification; please explain the new method of uploading files, since I noticed it happen but didn't have any motivation to pay attention to details at the time.
 
I liked the original training day idea, but didn't know whether I fit in as a veteran or not..:crazyeye: I guess I'm more intermediate.

This idea sounds good too. Should be a great learning experience.

I'm certainly not a beginner with a few of my own SGs and a whole bunch of SGs that I participated in and even took a 'second-in-command' role in (ex2) :D

I'll probably 'audit' this and download the saves, play along at home, and compare my results to the group..

If someone had a intermediate training game, say to Monarch or Emperor, I might be interested in participating..
 
Well, I've already admitted to having success at Monarch so I can't lie to you there. However, I have no SG experience at all and would love to take part in one more training exercise. If you'll flex to Monarch player, I'm in. Otherwise, I'll just watch on the side.
 
Sirian, it seems really complicated and a big nuisance

This game is for those who want complications and nuisances. :)

If you want to play a normal SG, there are lots of opportunities, even start your own. If you want a Training game but don't like the rules for this one, join one of the others. Players should only join here if they want to get up close and personal with the most minute details, all the way through a game.

- Sirian
 
Sullla: I selected the English because I didn't want to play with Religious and teach new players to overrely on cheap temples and instant govt swaps. I didn't want to play with Militaristic so that the players would not overrely on cheap barracks and harbors, lots of leaders and elite troops. I didn't want scientific because I don't want to teach them to overrely on cheap libraries. And I didn't want industrious because I want to teach them how to operate with standard, rather than double-speed, workers. Only one civ in the game has none of these benefits, and that is the English.

However, you are underestimating the power of Commercialism. It's benefits are many and deep, though not obvious. More on that as the game progresses.


- Sirian
 
Mardoc: OK, you're signed up.

ChrTh: I know it was your idea, but you're already in Zed's TDG and so is Mystery13. I want to leave room for other lurkers and newbies and wallflowers to step up to play. If a week passes and the roster hasn't filled up with such players, then I'll pencil you guys in to the remaining slots. OK?


- Sirian
 
As I understand it, the Commerical attribute confers two attributes upon civs:

1) It generates a small additional amount of commerce in large cities, on the order of the shield bonus that Industrious Civs get in large cities. Nice to know it's there, but also not likely to make a big difference. However, I could be incorrect here and the bonus may be bigger than I thought; I will have to look into this in some of my save games.

2) It lowers corruption. However, according to those people who have been doing way too many tests in the corruption thread, it affects only corruption caused by being over the optimum city limit, NOT corruption caused by distance from capitol. I believe on a standard sized map a commerical civ gets 2 more cities before passing that limit. This is again not likely to have a great effect on the game unless the player is stringently keeping to the optimum city limit.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I don't see the great benefits of this attribute. It's not bad, but it pales in comparison to the almost game-unbalancing power of the religious and industrious attributes. And from the way that you answered my question, I see that you were indeed trying to get players away from the most commonly played civs (there are people out there who refuse to play as anyone except Persia or Japan...:o).

On a side note, one of my most dominating games of Civ3 ever was played with the English when they were given to me randomly. It was a regent game, and I won so handily I permanently moved up to monarch afterwards. So indeed maybe the English are not so bad. :)
 
I am playing (and enjoying greatly), the SUL3 TDG.

With that said, I really want to play in this game too. I have been following many of the games on this board and you Sirian have some of the most interesting ones. Your variants, especially the (I believe it was) game that had the spice gambit intrigued me enough to find a SG to play.

My playing in the SUL3 TDG game shouldn't preclude me from participating in your game. I have committed to only play one or two SG for all my game playing over the next couple months so I will have plenty of time to dedicate to this and one other SG.

Please reconsider making the other TDG members wait a week and potentially miss the chance to play a game with you.
 
Every once in awhile things come together and this looks like time for me to delurk and play my first SG. I've been following the RBD games ever since the first (Ghandi Tales) and have learned quite a bit and would like the opportunity to learn more first hand.

I've played several single-player games, mostly Monarch and Regent and my record is:

Monarch: 1W, 4L; Regent: 3W, 4L

with a smattering of lower level games that didn't offer much challenge, including April's GOTM. Clearly, I can ratchet up my skills in the short-term.

Timing-wise, I now have a job with regular hours (a SysAdmin with regular hours, what a concept!) after many, many years of scheduling craziness, so I can devote time to Civ weekday evenings and of course, weekends. So, if you'll have me, I'll gladly join the ranks of the limey bastards, er... her royal majesty's dogsbodies.

--- TBC
 
I would really like to participate although i have a) some experience in SG-games (finished LK19 and ButSam Babylonian and currently playing in LK21)
and b) usually win on Regent

But i have only played Monarch once (an OCC which i lost by Space-race two turns before i reached the 20000cp :( ) and i am very interested to get some advice and learning new ideas how to build an empire to stand the test of time ;)

Rowain
 
Originally posted by Sirian
Mardoc: OK, you're signed up.

ChrTh: I know it was your idea, but you're already in Zed's TDG and so is Mystery13. I want to leave room for other lurkers and newbies and wallflowers to step up to play. If a week passes and the roster hasn't filled up with such players, then I'll pencil you guys in to the remaining slots. OK?


- Sirian

It's ok *sniff*...I don't need to play *sniff* :suicide:

;)

The reason I signed up was because I expect the other TDG to be less work over a longer period of time...I was hoping to use this one to better my Civ skills, not just my SG skills.

I'll gladly wait on standby. I can always follow along.
 
I think the English can be a good civ if you do the following strategy:
Research straight to Literature
Build G. Lib.
Scout out everybody and drop research to close to nil

By being expansionist, the English can find other civs quicker (bonus scout)...also, as commercial, they have Alphabet, so they're one tech closer to literature then any other expansionist civ. In addition, they'll have extra moolah (hey, they're commercial)...by the time the GLib expires, the English will probably have a good 1000gp lead on everybody.

(of course, I never actually played this strategy, so I have no idea if it works :) )
 
Originally posted by Sirian
Sullla: I selected the English because I didn't want to play with Religious and teach new players to overrely on cheap temples and instant govt swaps.

Hey!

I resemble that remark...

--Cy
 
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