Polution

Zedd · May 6, 2002

Ok, every time i change to democracy my whole empire goes down the tubes. I will have a nice city size 13 or so that has 12-13 in production and then i switch to democracy. My population is imediately angry with me, and now growing faster due to the increase in food supply. That i can live with and even expect from democracy. But all of a sudden my 12-13 production is 5-6 production and loads of waste and pollution. I have had 8 cities with over 10 production and they all dropped to below 5 production and the rest pollution, and thats without any factories. adding a recycleing center will help but i never get to the point i was when still a monarchy. I currently stay at monarchy for this reason and just make up for the loss in trade and science with caravans, since i can produce about one every turn when i build my factories. Just for fun i built a factory and the hover dam wonder, my entire city radius was polluted in three turns. :nuke:

Lucky · May 6, 2002

The best would be to upload the savegame in question and post it here so we could have a look at it! :yeah:

Several points come to mind:

1. The invention of Automobile makes your city population produce pollution, you need mass transit for that.

2. A democracy in Civ2 does NOT produce any corruption or waste (blacks arrows or shields).

3. Production pollution occurs ONLY after the 20th shield. A hydro-plant increases this limit to 40, a recycling center to 62 and a solar-plant to unlimited.

Just what I could think of in these few minutes. Post your savegame!

Zedd · May 6, 2002

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=765

The above link helped alot

What I meant by waste was the Yellow icons representing the pollution produced in a city, and pollution was the white skulls popping up every 5-6 turns. The Explanation may be in the techs, I generally have small to mid sized cities but pour everything i can into geting techs. I was well past automobile and had finished researching plastic when the problems started to occur. I never build mass transit becouse the problem seemed to be comeing from production, If i drop one shield production one yellow triangle would dissapear. From now on i will treat the mass transit improvement with a little more respect and that will probably allow me to build more factories and such.

Thanks for the help. :goodjob:

starlifter · Jun 2, 2002

I never build mass transit becouse the problem seemed to be comeing from production, If i drop one shield production one yellow triangle would dissapear. From now on i will treat the mass transit improvement with a little more respect and that will probably allow me to build more factories and such.

The whole polluton thing is rather confusing, esp. when you try to determine just where it comes from in late game.

Here are some "easy" things to keep in mind:

1. A Mass Transit eliminates all Pollution Icons due to Population . Zero. Hence, the city cannot pollute at all due to it's size.

2. Wasted shields do not contribute to Resource Pollution (RP). Republics, Monarchies, Despotism, and Communism are affected here (yes, Communism can have tiny amount).

3. A MT + Hoover dam (or Hydro or Nuclear) will eliminate all pollution icons until you reach the 42nd shield of non-wasted production.

4. A MT + recycling plant will eliminate all pollution icons until the city hits the 62nd non-wasted shield.

5. A MT + Solar Plant completely eliminate a city's pollution icons.

Note: A pollution icon is the yellow triangle in the city status screen. Pollution is the white skull on terrain.

starlifter · Jun 2, 2002

Production pollution occurs ONLY after the 20th shield. A hydro-plant increases this limit to 40, a recycling center to 62 and a solar-plant to unlimited.

You are referring to Resource Pollution (RP). Actually, there are some minor factual deviations in that statement.... Either a Hydro or a Nuclear plant will increase the limit, and the pollution icon threshhold is 41. Shield 42 will generate the first pollution icon due to RP. Also, the limit is 61 with a recycling center (Shield 62 makes the first icon).

The way to see the pollution icons that are generated from RP is to eliminate all the PP (Population Pollution). The two ways to do this are: do not possess the advance of Industrialization, or build a Mass Transit. Under these two conditions, one can directly observe RP icons.

The link Zedd posted goes into the pollution issues in excruciating detail.

funxus · Jun 2, 2002

5. A MT + Solar Plant completely eliminate a city's pollution icons.

Does this mean that hydroplants, if you don't have HD, and recycling centers are unnecessary the moment you build a solarplant in your city? Not that money is the problem during that era, but recycling centers still cost.

starlifter · Jun 2, 2002

by funxus:

Does this mean that hydroplants, if you don't have HD, and recycling centers are unnecessary the moment you build a solarplant in your city? Not that money is the problem during that era, but recycling centers still cost.

Exactly. If you have Solar, sell off Recycling Centers, Power Plants, Hydro Plants, and Nuclear Plants (RC, PP, HP, NP) in that city.

Likewise, if you have a PP, and build an HP (or build the Hoover Dam), the sell the PP.

If you have a PP or HP and build a NP, sell the PP and HP.

The RC is a special case. All it does is cut the RP (Resource Pollution) by 2/3... which means that if you couple it with a MT, you need not worry about any PIs (Pollution Icons) for that city until/if it produces 62 shields or more. The RC does not affect shield production, like the Factory, PP, HP, NP, SP, and MP do. Its only purpose is to cut RP.

The ultimate setup for a city is this:

Factory - Increase Shield Production by 50%
Mass Transit (MT) - Eliminate Population Pollution (PP)
Solar Plant (SP) - Increases Shield Prod by 50%, Eliminates RP
Manufacturing Plant (MP) - Increases Shield Prod by 50%

If every city had this setup, even the mighty Hoover Dam would not be needed.

PS, I know the use of all the PP, RP, SPs, etc. might look confusing.... but pollution is a confusing topic anyway, LOL

.

Zedd · Jun 3, 2002

Starlifter you are a gentleman and a scholor thank you for your wisdom :egypt:

I never built mass transit before becose i thought the pollution was all coming from resources( make 1 less resource get 1 less polution) I now have built scores of mass transit and my size 21 and 22 cities are putting out 35 shields per turn. and thatnks to some of the others in this forum my science rate is at 1 per turn and lux @40%. Looks like I will be heading ro AC by AD1

.:KNAS:. · Jun 3, 2002

lemme get this straight, if i have a solar plant, my citys production isnt affected by the power and nuclear plant? it just doesnt seem right...

funxus · Jun 5, 2002

yes, for production, only one powerplant is needed in each city. The others wont help the production at all.

starlifter · Jun 5, 2002

by Zedd:

... thank you ...

You're welcome. Glad to have been of help.

by KNAS:

lemme get this straight, if i have a solar plant, my citys production isnt affected by the power and nuclear plant? it just doesnt seem right..

The Solar Plant is the big Kahoona. Top dog. Big Cheese. It increases shield output by 50%.... the same 50% that a PP, HP, or NP does. So if you have a SP, you can sell off any PP, HP, or NP in that city.... you're paying maintenance costs unnecessarily. Plus, you get the gold for selling off the redundant imporvement.

Just to beat the dead horse, as it were, the factory is unique, as is the Manufacturing Plant. No other improvement duplicates the respective 50% shield increase of these two improvements.

So the ultimate is Factory + Solar Plant + Manufacturing Plant. This gives you 150% increase in shield production. If you add the Mass Transit, you will get rid of the remaining pollution icons (yellow tiangles). And now your city will be maxing its shields and have no pollution icons at all.

by funxus:

yes, for production, only one powerplant is needed in each city. The others wont help the production at all.

I think you meant "plant" (meaning PP, HP, NP, or SP) instead of "powerplant"

.

starlifter · Jun 5, 2002

by Funxus:

Did you know that "Russia" comes from the slavic name for Vikings..

It comes from the old Swedish term "Rus", which refers to the military princes that came into Russia to establish the fur trade routes to Constantinople. Do you know where Uppsala is? I've spent a lot of time there (friends and relatives), but before you ask, I don't speak Swedish

.

floppa21 · Jun 5, 2002

Hmmm... My cities ALL get Solar Plants AND Recycling Centers... Good to know that's not necessary. :goodjob:

starlifter · Jun 6, 2002

Solar plants are so expensive, and I always buy them (they typically cost about 600-700g, with 720g as the max cost).... so I won't make them in a city that can never exceed 61 shields of production. RC's are a lot cheaper in Upkeep, too.

.:KNAS:. · Jun 6, 2002

I know where Uppsala is.... i live there ya know

But all this time ive been paying more than i have to? this is so far away from my usual greediness. Being greedy as i am, i rarely buy anything except for wonder or a soldier in a undefended city. Maybe a few spaceship parts

I have also heard an "unconfirmed rumor" that barracks cost 1 gold more each time its obsoleted, ie. it costs 1g before gunpowder, and 2 after?

duke o' york · Jun 6, 2002

This is absolutely true. Barracks begin at 1g each turn, and move up to 2g per turn after the discovery of Gunpowder renerds them all obsolete and will finally cost 3g per turn after Mobile Warfare renders them obsolete. I don't bother building barracks between the first lot being sold off and the arrival of Mobile Warfare and will just have a few after that, churning out troops in high production cities and then airlifting them to their destinations.

.:KNAS:. · Jun 6, 2002

dang

but by the time it costs 3g per turn, i can afford it so, ill build em anyways (maybe not in as many cities though)

that kinda sucks. is there anything else i should know

and all this time i refused to build the hoover dam because it didnt let me build NP`s.... i feel rather silly now, actually

starlifter · Jun 6, 2002

ill build em anyways (maybe not in as many cities though)

That's my personal strategy. Certain cities get barracks, and they are expected to make my vets.

that kinda sucks. is there anything else i should know

Does one ever really really know all there is to know about Civ 2? :crazyeye:

and all this time i refused to build the hoover dam because it didnt let me build NP`s.... i feel rather silly now, actually

For a long time, I had no idea you could convert Elvii into Taxmen and Einsteins, :lol:

.

PS, In a long, full game, Hoover Dam is the 3rd most important wonder in my book (behind MC and JSB).

funxus · Jun 7, 2002

With powerplants I meant PP, HP, NP, or SP. A "plant" would be a good collective name for it. It might be confusing with mfg plants though.

I didn't know about the trading furs-part, but "rus" is a name for swedish people. In Finland we're called Ruotsi and in Estonia we're called Rootsi. It seems to come from "Roslagen", which is a historical coastal area north of Stockholm, according to my source.

gonzo_for_civ · Jun 7, 2002

I have a question to add here. I have cities that I build a mass transit in and I still have 3 or 4 little yellow skulls producing pollution. Why is this? I will upload an example if it is necessary.

Polution

Chieftain

Game- and Quizmaster

Chieftain

Deity

Deity

Orange Cycloptic Blob

Deity

Chieftain

Civfanatic

Orange Cycloptic Blob

Deity

Deity

Crusty Manhole

Deity

Civfanatic

It don't mean a thing....

Civfanatic

Deity

Orange Cycloptic Blob

Chicken Walker

Similar threads