Public Investigation#3: Term3-Elections - Spice Traders

disorganizer · May 30, 2002

A anonymous citizen stated that the Spice-Traders Guild started a PM to all members which urged them to vote for their members.

The citizen noted that this was like the action of a political party, as votes to others were condemned by the PM.

Since political parties are NOT allowed by the constitution, this would be a major violation of the constitution.

The discussion is started here.

If there is no negative post in this thread about the incident, this thread is closed and no poll is held. If there is a minimum of one negative post, a poll will be held.

Chieftess · May 30, 2002

The Spice Trader's Guild is not a political party, and those PMs were suggestions on who to support. The PMs did not in any way, shape or form say "Vote for these canidates", it said "Support them" - which doesn't imply voting. You can support more than one canidate, but you can only vote for one. If you notice, some where in the same polls, which would defeat the purpose of a vote.

Personally, I don't know a lot about how politcal parties work (I'm politically-illiterate)

... So, it wasn't meant as anything political.

Falcon02 · May 30, 2002

I feel it violates the Constitution, BUT......

I feel that it is a forgivable offense, so long as it doesn't happen again.

disorganizer · May 30, 2002

so i interpret your post right as a proposal for a warning-letter to the spice-traders guild, in person chieftess? or more like a "first and final warning"?

Bill_in_PDX · May 30, 2002

I am guessing that many citizens exchanged emails regarding whom they would support and why. I think it would be bad to stifle such discussion.

However, it may do us well to view a copy of this email if it was a "bulk" variety message.

Bill
...in PDX

disorganizer · May 30, 2002

Quotes for the pms of another anonymous citizen:

1st pm:
The founder of The Spice Trader's Guild has been nominated for the Trade Department for a 2nd term, and for President. Please show your support by voting for Chieftess in the elections. Also show your support for Zur in the councilmember position.

2nd pm:
Please show your support for the following canidates that are members of the Spice Trader's Guild:

Chieftess President and Trade Department
Zur Councilmember At-Large
SKILORD Domestic Department and New Cormyr
Eklektikos Governor of Asphinxia
Strider Science Department and Trade Department
crabapple Governor of Normandy

It seems clear to me that the minimum should be a "First and Final Warning!".
Only because i believe chieftess if she sais she did not intend to act as a political party and i believe she only wanted to do some campaigning for herself. If i would not believe so, i would also propose harder punishment.

donsig · May 30, 2002

Personally I think the 'no political parties' clause of the constitution should be removed.
As for the Spice Traders Guild, it is one of our oldest citizen's organizations and there has been no hint of it being a political party before now.
Finally, I do not think the constitution even implies that candidates cannot ask for votes.
No matter what angle I look at this from I do not see an infraction.

Bill_in_PDX · May 30, 2002

I agree with your interpretation disorganizer.

Bill
...in PDX

Duke of Marlbrough · May 30, 2002

My concerns with this:

1) If it said to actually not support certain people.

2) If it said to support only people in the Spice Traders Guild.

Falcon02 · May 30, 2002

I say First and Final warning (the intent of my original post)

disorganizer · May 30, 2002

DOM: i posted the relevant parts of it here. i have a edited copy from [anonymous].
i think no mod action is required at the moment, though. do you want the pm anyway? i only have an edited copy of the original, but i can pm the citizen who initialized the investigation.
i will not forward the pm without the citizen giving me his ok for it.

Chieftess · May 30, 2002

I also thought that since the STG was non-political, you could do that, just like emailing your friends or something... And, I was going to ask for support for people outside of the STG. Again, I think this should be made clear in the const. (I'm not 100% familar with all of the rules yet).

Duke of Marlbrough · May 30, 2002

Hmmm, I obviously type too slow.

PM 1:
I don't see this as an issue. People can ask for others support all they want. There is nothing in there about not supporting others.

PM 2:
The only thing of any concern is that only members of the Spice Traders Guild are being given support. Do they all have a common goal in the game? In other words, are they working as a team in the game? Or will each of them be doing their jobs as separate individuals?

disorganizer · May 30, 2002

PM1:
i think what brought this to public was the fact that in PM1 it was assumed that if you support the STG you should vote for CT. this was seen as political-partylike acting.

PM2:
they do their job as individuals, i assume. but nevertheless we should write a warning to decline the rise of parties in our nation from the start. all parties started as loose groups of individuals, but then got organized to parties.

DOM: as you see, this will be no mod-forcing thing.

donsig · May 30, 2002

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
PM 2:
The only thing of any concern is that only members of the Spice Traders Guild are being given support. Do they all have a common goal in the game? In other words, are they working as a team in the game? Or will each of them be doing their jobs as separate individuals?

It seems only natural that a pm from the founder of the Spice Trader's Guild to members of the Spice Trader's Guild about candidates who are also members of the Spice Trader's Guild
would only include members of the Spice Trader's Guild.

Issuing an official warning in this case sends the message that citizen's groups cannot endorse candidates, especially those that belong to the group.

disorganizer · May 30, 2002

so you are pro warning-letter (or final-warning letter)?

Duke of Marlbrough · May 30, 2002

Originally posted by disorganizer
PM1:
i think what brought this to public was the fact that in PM1 it was assumed that if you support the STG you should vote for CT. this was seen as political-partylike acting.

Well, it sounds like a resume type endorsement. You can't read assumptions into it.

PM2:
they do their job as individuals, i assume. but nevertheless we should write a warning to decline the rise of parties in our nation from the start. all parties started as loose groups of individuals, but then got organized to parties.

Whether this was starting to 'act' as a political party is what I'm trying to find out.

DOM: as you see, this will be no mod-forcing thing.

Thanks, but I'll decide that. Since it doesn't seem like they were trying to organize a group to run the game as a 'team' then I won't be taking any 'official' action.

You guys can still do your element of it, but anytime the rules are possibly violated I may take action on my own.

disorganizer · May 30, 2002

i just want to make clear here that most of my posts do not come from my mind. i just wanted to enable this thread for anonymous investigation.

DOM: of course

Cyc · May 30, 2002

I'm with Donsig here. I see no major problem (especially not a Constitutional violation). I don't really want to see political parties in Phoenatica either, although it seems there are underground political groups that don't PM people under a citizen's organization heading. I see plenty of people looking for support or endorsing candidates. I believe I did it under the heading of the Cultural Dept. I wasn't running for office, but so what? Have the person who was offended tell the STG that they no longer wish to receive junk mail from them. Problem solved.

Duke of Marlbrough · May 30, 2002

Originally posted by donsig
It seems only natural that a pm from the founder of the Spice Trader's Guild to members of the Spice Trader's Guild about candidates who are also members of the Spice Trader's Guild
would only include members of the Spice Trader's Guild.

Thanks. I think we established that.

Issuing an official warning in this case sends the message that citizen's groups cannot endorse candidates, especially those that belong to the group.

Like I said, you guys can do your element of it. People, as individuals, can endorse whomever they want. They just should not be 'representing' anyone (or anything).

Public Investigation#3: Term3-Elections - Spice Traders

Deity

Moderator

General

Deity

Grumpy Submariner

Deity

Low level intermediary

Grumpy Submariner

The Quiet Moderator

General

Deity

Moderator

The Quiet Moderator

Deity

Low level intermediary

Deity

The Quiet Moderator

Deity

Looking for the door...

The Quiet Moderator

Similar threads