Under Siege: The Wars of Israel

The scenarios have been released, finally, and can be downloaded here.

What do y'all think?

Hey I think it's very good. If it's better than the playtest version then we're up for a great scenario

Just had to do it: POST 100!!

It looks like a lot of work went into this. I look forward to giving it a try.

May I ask one thing, please? Zip up your files inside a folder. It makes it MUCH easier to organize once you unzip them. Thanks.

That's pretty much too late, but I'll remember that...

Quite nice jobe there insurgent

ps. while it is obvious that the Arab nation has never accepted the Israeli state as one there to stay, I think the description of the scenario download section should also contain information about the founding of the Israeli state and the initial aggression by parts of the Israeli people- who disregarded both Palestinian claims and international agreements (with help from the USA) and as a result occupied large parts of the territory that should have become the Palestinian state- to date, unfortunately.

Otherwise great

Originally posted by W.i.n.t.e.r
ps. while it is obvious that the Arab nation has never accepted the Israeli state as one there to stay, I think the description of the scenario download section should also contain information about the founding of the Israeli state and the initial aggression by parts of the Israeli people- who disregarded both Palestinian claims and international agreements (with help from the USA) and as a result occupied large parts of the territory that should have become the Palestinian state- to date, unfortunately.

Click to expand...

These small conflicts over land had endured for decades, and it only became full scale war when the Arabs attacked. Incidents with settlers attacking and slaughtering Arabs in Arab villages, occupying strategic areas, and other provocations certainly did their part to worsen their conflict, but the reason that didn't enter the description of the scenario is that such things happened from both sides and had happened for a very long time. Arab gangs of warriors had also attacked settlements withing 1948 Israel, provoking the Israelis several times.
When the Arabs attacked, the borders of 1948 were lost and the conflict developed into a full-scale war. That's why the small-scale mutual provocations haven't entered the description - they were a part of the conflict, but certainly nothing new.

Glad you liked it...

any chance you can make this a civilization 3 scenario also?
after all, civ 3 is out, you know...

Civ3 doesn't have scenarios, and it's lousy game. It's not nearly as good as Civ2, try it. You'll love it for its simplicity.

But no, it is simply not possible to make scenarios in Civ3.

There is a forum here on CFC with Civ3 scenarios...

Could someone please explain? I thought it wasn't possible in Civ3, and that it would be a part of this new modpack thingy "Play the World"...

Yeah they made a patch recent;y which allows more ability in making scenarios, however I heard it is plagued with difficulties...

But I thought it was completely impossible, that the function didn't at all exist... Live and learn...

I agree, dayan. Just not the military size - Israel has an impressingly huge military for its size! It's amazing it can sustain such military preparedness. Israel has 175,000 active soldiers and 490,000 in the reserves (1995 figures), and it has that out of necessity.

Actually Israel is half the size of Denmark... We have 15,000 soldiers and 5 ½ million citizens...

But let's not turn this into a Mideast thread more than it already is. They have plenty of those in the Off-Topic forum...

wow i didn't know that about Israel's army, the US only has an active 300,000 troops....lol geez

Originally posted by insurgent
It's amazing it can sustain such military preparedness.

Click to expand...

Actually, they can't From what I understand, Israel's huge military spending [which is something like 50% of total government spending] is slowly sending the country broke. While aid from overseas doners helps cover the costs, the economic damage caused by the oversized Israeli military is still significant. It's worth remembering that each of those reservists has to miss a week(?) or so worth of work each year, and that really adds up...

In addition, while 30,000 professional soldiers dosn't sound like much, it's actually a very large standing army for a country of Israels size. As an example, Australia, which has more then 3 times the population of Israel, has less then 30,000 full time soldiers.

BTW Insurgent, why didn't you include nuclear weapons in this scenario? Israel has something like 200 nuclear warheads and aparently came close to using them in 1973.

I for one like the pro Israeli propoganda. But seriously, this is a scenario, not a political forum. There are plenty of these threads on off-topic.

I've only played the '48 scenario from the Israeli point of view, and am mostly through it, and I love it! It was dicey in the first few turns as the Arabs threatened to overrun the Gallillee and they suceed in overrunning the Negev. But my forces liberated these areas, crushed the Palestinian cities, and have no taken Lebanon, half of Jordan, 1/3 of Syria (including Damascus), and the canal zone. I hope to finish off Syria and Jordan this turn.

One of the more intriguing parts of the scenario is how to fight and guard territory with what is a small army. I can't even spare Hagganah to guard every city I take. Currently, West Bank, Lebanon, and parts of Jordan are without occupying troops. I've never done this before, but it reality it is more realistic if I hope to win before my time restraint. Well done.

Two things though.
1. I don't really understand the IDF militia is so much more powerful than the Hagganah. In reality, I thought the Hagganah and the other forces merged into the IDF.
2. In historical terms, the American government did not sell arms to Israel in 1948.

But otherwise, ranks with the other top two Israel scenarios I've played (out of maybe eight I've done.)

Nuclear weapons are contemplated by the Israelis in the events file in 1973, but since I thought it would ruin the game play, I didn't include it. It would have, and I might also have been forced to include other weapons of mass destruction, and give them to Syria...

The Hagannah may have been included in the normal infantry units, but they were also used as a kind of light militia unit, and that's the role they have here. They are like a poorly-equipped version of the National Guard.

The American government gave massive support for Israel during the War of Independence, and so did the rest of the West. The Israelis got hundreds of rebuilt Shermans (WWII armour) - and other kinds of heavy equipment. Most of that support was disguised as arms sales, it was only after the War of Independence that it was ceased, and it was only restarted after the Six Day War...

Interesting thread, but some of the facts and figures appear to be off

Israel's standing army numbers around 200,000 soldiers (both conscripts and professional soldiers). Israel's army is unusual (unique?) because it drafts both men and women, although women are typically assigned to support, rather than combat roles. There are at least 600,000 more reservists available in case of an emergency.

Additionally, it has 4,000+ battle tanks, around 500 combat jets, and roughly 200 combat helicopters.

Obviously, this is a huge military for a country of 6 million people. Furthermore, Israel tends to invest in cutting-edge military technology and training programs for its military personnel. Consequently, Israel's defense spending is one of the highest in the world, totaling some 12% of its GNP.

Most of this is paid for by Israel, although American subsidies play a considerable part as well.

Enough about that...