Are we this desperate enough for this trade?

Chieftess · Jan 16, 2003

Act of Desperation: Peace, Phsyics, for our only source of ivory and wines, 28gpt, 11g. (We would have to deal with any possible unhappiness) This can be a bargaining chip for metallurgy and/or mil. tradition. (This is an inforational poll)

We let much of our anti-Persian alliences run out, and...

Here's a summary of world events:

Rome is dying to the hands of the Persians.
Zulus are almost dead (by the hands of the French, and now Persia)
India has signed an allience with France to destroy our allies, the Iroquois.
Four civs (including France and Persia) are in the Industrial age, and have riflemen. If India gets Nationalism, it's all over for our knights.
Persia and France are starting to expand.
Physics isn't owned by some civs, it is a great bargaining chip.
A normal trade would cost over 70gpt, cutting a huge chunk for more tech trades.
There are 7 Middle Age techs that we do not have (4 of which are required for advancement into the Industrial Age). (Fortunately, we are scientific, so Nationalism is free).
Russia may now have Cossacks! Gearing up for war with them now would be unwise.

FortyJ · Jan 16, 2003

Maybe for Military Tradition, but not sooner.

donsig · Jan 16, 2003

Is this for peace with India, Persia or both? :confused:

Chieftess · Jan 16, 2003

This is with France.

Feodor Ardent · Jan 16, 2003

Are we going to let them pass through to Iroquois, or block them?

Chieftess · Jan 16, 2003

If we try to block them, they could declare war on us to get through.

Feodor Ardent · Jan 16, 2003

My experience has been that that happened often in Civ II, but is rather rare in Civ III. Particularly if the trespassers have another war to go to, or if there is no notable disparity in our strength. In Civ I and Civ II I'd block opponents with strong units, as they could seldom restrain themselves from whacking on a worker or diplomat in reach. In Civ III, on the other hand, I've covered an entire frontier with explorers and done myself no harm.

But, if we intend to let them through, let's form a corridor and let them hurry to their doom. By the time we get fully modernized, their forces will either be used up or they will have carved up the Iroquois for us and we'll be on Babylon's frontier.

Feodor

Chieftess · Jan 16, 2003

The thing is, we're at a chokepoint (a landbridge), and about 1/2 the civs are fighting a war on the other side. Also, we could look to gain a lux or two by trading an excess of ours.

Feodor Ardent · Jan 16, 2003

Yep. In an earlier Civ version we'd be overrun by now. Trespassers are a lot more peaceful in Civ III. One does tend to trip over them on the way to something else, but as long as our garrisons are strong, incidents like that one with the Indians should be rare.

Anyone got a theory as to WHY India attacked us? I theorized that their army went south after the declaration of war because China crossed their southern frontier, but I've seen no particular weak point that would have tempted the attack.

Whatever it was, we need to avoid doing the same with the French.

Feodor

Donovan Zoi · Jan 16, 2003

China

Peace, Physics for Spices, 46gpt, 247g (1167g total)

The desperation proposal is winning?? :eek:

Chieftess, everybody.......the trade I show in this post is the better trade. Sure it costs a bit more than what is proposed in this poll, but all we would be losing is some surplus spices. We shouldn't even consider trading away a sole luxury, let alone two. Our situation, while severe, is not dire enough to risk unhappiness at this time.

As Chieftess has noted, we could see a return of the some of the monies invested in a Physics trade by shopping it to civs that still need it. We can also use Physics to obtain Metallurgy, opening the door to even more possible trades. This China trade also allows for all this without ticking our citizens off.

Please vote NO on this proposal.

Octavian X · Jan 16, 2003

To be honest, I'd rather keep what those single-source luxuries. I tried giving the last of my luxs one game to get an MA, but that only ended up backfiring because of the cost I had to pay at the slider to keep the people happy.

Chieftess · Jan 16, 2003

We have done well with 5 luxuries in the past. It's only that there will be fewer WLTKDs.

Donovan Zoi · Jan 16, 2003

But Chieftess, why have surplus luxuries if we are not going to use them? We should never give up our only resource- of any kind. This proposal begs for more micromanagement and a reluctance to grow our cities that would stem from a fear of unhappiness. As Veera would say....

"Nope, don't like it at all....."

donsig · Jan 17, 2003

Let's take a few more of Gandhi's cities and he'll give us what we want for nothing.

Vander · Jan 17, 2003

I feel donovan has a better solution to the problem. By not giving away as many lux is better in the long run for happiness. I also think that with physics as a bargining chip, we will be able to catch up with the more advanced nations (not to mention defeat the insolent Indians).

Donovan Zoi · Jan 17, 2003

Keep in mind.....we need Physics to get a bigger picture of what everyone has in the tech tree. The most we could get from Ghandi now is three techs, because that is all we can see. If we got Physics on our own, we could possibly extort even bigger techs from him.

Eklektikos · Jan 17, 2003

If we absolutely must trade for Physics then I would consider Donovan's proposal to be infinitely preferable over the frankly bizarre one put forward by our Trade Leader - although once I've had a chance to look at the save and make up my own mind I suspect that I may well find myself backing the approach advocated by Governor Donsig

Are we this desperate enough for this trade?

Are we this desperate enough for this trade?

Yes

No

Abstain

Chieftess

Moderator

FortyJ

Deity

donsig

Low level intermediary

Chieftess

Moderator

Feodor Ardent

Grizzled 'ol Civ Veteran

Chieftess

Moderator

Feodor Ardent

Grizzled 'ol Civ Veteran

Chieftess

Moderator

Feodor Ardent

Grizzled 'ol Civ Veteran

Donovan Zoi

The Return

Octavian X

is not a pipe.

Chieftess

Moderator

Donovan Zoi

The Return

donsig

Low level intermediary

Vander

Privateering in Idaho

Donovan Zoi

The Return

Eklektikos

Eponymous

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