Screenshot of the Day #92: Free Upgrade

Thunderfall

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As some people say, the best thing in life is free...

http://www.civfanatics.com/sotd/sotd92.jpg

Thanks to Alex Ng for the screenshot.

EDIT: I showed MikeB of Firaxis this screenshot and he said this is not a bug. If the cost to build the unit >= the cost to build the upgraded unit, then the upgrade is free. Gallic Swordsman costs 50 shields to build while Medieval Infantry costs only 40. Thanks Mike for the info!
 
Cool, however I don't find that upgrading gallic swordsmen to mediviel infantry is one of life's best things.
 
I certainly wouldn't bother upgrading Gallic Swordsmen to Medieval Infantry as that's going from a 3/2/2 to a 4/2/1 unless I'm desparate to beat on someone as they both defend just as well. The Gallic Swordsmen as fast units actually do better in the open since they can run away. Also once upgraded they only count as 40 shield guys for the next upgrade instead of 50 shields. Keeping them around in storage until something worthwile comes along seems best.

David Dwyer
 
I agree with David, the worst moment playing Celtia is when you can't build gallic swordsmen anymore because they're outdated. They're simply better than medieval infantry.
 
Gallic swordsmen are awesome. I've considered modding the upgrade path to Knights instead of MI for many of the reasons discusses. 3-2-2 to 4-2-2 seems like a reasonable upgrade number wise & it makes sense to me that the ancient elite warriors would become knights instead of grunts.
 
There is something ironic about researching democracy while in despotism in this pic. :lol:
 
Originally posted by Sim_One
There is something ironic about researching democracy while in despotism in this pic. :lol:

Sim_One is right, that is wierd. :crazyeye:

Anyway, I think Celtic Swordsmen are a lot better than Med Infantry. Got me pretty pissed on time when I got feudalism from the GL in the middle of a war against germany there! :lol:
 
Hmm free upgrades are useless if you get a bad unit.
I think vanderbilt is right :thumbsup: kinghts where first just men fighting for landowners and then became knights with eitquette later in the middle ages and medieval infantry are peasants who are trained to be "sargeants" they are as good as knights but arent from adel and haven't recieved the title:knight
:)
 
I guess because the swordsman is more powerful than the medevial infantry, that's why it's probably free...;)

Interesting screenshot. That current layout, with the city placement and the roads, looks very similar to mine
 
The debate of whether the Gallic Swordsman is a more versatile unit than the Medieval Infantry is fine but I feel there is a real injustice in the PTW game, since the GS costs a whopping 20 shields more than the regular swordsman.

The Legionary with its 1 defensive bonus costs the same as Swordsman.
The Immortal with its 1 offensive bonus also costs the same as a Swordsman.
So why does the GS cost 20 shields more? Is the extra movement bonus worth THAT much?

If so, then why is the Rider worth the same as a reqular Knight (70 shields each) & the Panzer worth the same as a regular Tank (100 shields each)? Shouldn't they cost 20 shields more as well?

I love the GS, but the steep price makes no sense. Especially when its "upgrade" costs 10 shields LESS!

In fear of passing judgment too quickly, it seems this aspect was not thought too well. The shield cost progression should be more equitable than it is right now.
 
I agree that there are a lot of problems with the whole shield cost progression, although I don't want to get too far into it here. In the game I am playing now, I am at the point of upgrading pikes to musketmen, and I don't know why it costs 60g each!! It is a 30 shield jump for an increase in defense of 1. Musket, with 2.4.1, costs 60, but Med. Inf. at 4.2.1 costs 40? Although I love many of the PTW features, they definitely went the wrong direction in terms of adjusting unit costs.
 
To Quote Bamspeedy from the Newbie Questions thread:

Upgrading is (shield difference to build the units*2). Warrior is 10 shields, swordsmen 30, so we have (30-10)*2=40 gold. Horsemen 30, to knights 70 so it is: (70-30)*2=80 gold.

Since it's a 30 shield jump, so it costs 60. Swordsmen to Med inf is a 20 shield jump, so it costs 40. For that price, musketmen should have higher stats... oh well.
 
Originally posted by dariusII
The debate of whether the Gallic Swordsman is a more versatile unit than the Medieval Infantry is fine but I feel there is a real injustice in the PTW game, since the GS costs a whopping 20 shields more than the regular swordsman.

The Legionary with its 1 defensive bonus costs the same as Swordsman.
The Immortal with its 1 offensive bonus also costs the same as a Swordsman.
So why does the GS cost 20 shields more? Is the extra movement bonus worth THAT much?

If so, then why is the Rider worth the same as a reqular Knight (70 shields each) & the Panzer worth the same as a regular Tank (100 shields each)? Shouldn't they cost 20 shields more as well?

I love the GS, but the steep price makes no sense. Especially when its "upgrade" costs 10 shields LESS!

In fear of passing judgment too quickly, it seems this aspect was not thought too well. The shield cost progression should be more equitable than it is right now.

The GS costs so much because it can replace the horseman. Chinese Riders get an extra movement point, but theres no unit that already goes 3 spaces with worse stats. Same with the panzer. But when you give an extra point to the GS, you get a super strong horseman, making horseman useless. A GS is similar to one sword and one horse, adding to 60 shields, but the GS is only 50 shields, and one less upkeep cost.
 
Interesting comments, Silverflame.

However, the GS upgrades to Med Infantry only, not to the knight.

This is my thinking:

A Civ builds 1 Swordsman + 1 Horseman = pricetag is 60 shields.

To upgrade each, add a further 50 sheilds. Thus the Civ has expended 110 shields total for a swords/horsie pair.
That Civ now has a Med. Infantry & a Knight.

The Celts could counter that with a big stack of GS, but sooner or later, Cavalry will be needed. Thus they still need to build Horseman or at the latest, Knights.

Thus, to build 1 GS + 1 Horseman = pricetag is 80 shields.
To upgrade each (or just the horsie), add a further 40 shields.
Total shield expediture for this pair is 120 shields, 10 more than the other Civ. This of course will multiply with the number of GS/Horsie combinations you have built.

I do agree with the view that for 10 extra shields, you get a Knight & a mini-Knight in the form of the Gallic Swordsman. But you cannot build GS exclusively if the other Civs get to Knights first.

Thus with the Celts, I guess the strategy is: get to GS, expend all resources in building them into a formidable force & then slaughter your neighbors in an all-out blitz.

As a side point, look at the Mounted Warrior. It could also be viewed as Horseman/Swordsman combination, but without the added defence point. It has the attack of a Swordsman/GS, & the movement of Horseman/GS, but the pricetag is the same - 30 shields, 20 less than the GS! Not 10, but 20!
 
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