New CoL Proposals

People of Fanatika. There are two proposals on the table in the Senate Forum that try to ease the tension and misunderstanding of two current hot issues dealing with Workers. These are Tile Improvement and Worker Actions.

Niether one of these proposals would make a "change" in our laws. They would merely solidify and clarify the existing laws. There has been a large amount of disagreement as to the meaning of the two laws in question and these additions would help not only the citizens, but the Judiciary understand just what the laws implicate. No specific duties are eliminated by these proposals and the authority of the DP has not been deminished. By extending the writings of each law, the intent of the law is more pronounced and made easily understandable to the citizens of Fanatika. Both of these additions are needed at this time.


Worker Action - Earmaking Proposal (Working Copy)

CoL C.1.G (The President) Organizes worker activities.

...............CoL C.1.G.1 When a Province produces a Worker in any
...............city, that worker can be "earmarked' by the Governor to
...............be used for any one improvement in that Province. No
...............additional work by that Worker in that Province is
...............required of the DP. If additional work is to be done by
...............that Worker in that Province, then it is to be done after
...............the work the Worker was "earmarked" for. (ie, if the
..............."earmarked" work was to irrigate a grassland two tiles
...............off the road, the worker would do the irrigating first,
...............and if the DP wanted to have road to that irrigation, it
...............would be done afterwards.) If a Priority List or
...............Earmarked work action is 4 tiles away from a road, then
...............the worker MAY build road to the worksite, but once a
...............road is started to the worksite, then the original Work
...............action MUST be completed before the worker is
...............released.


Tile Development - Priority Lists (Working Copy)

CoL D.1.E A Governor organizes tile development in his Province.

................CoL D.1.E.1 Governors may produce and post a Priority
................List for the work to be done in their Province. This list
................can contain up to three improvements that must be
................completed before the DP is allowed to do other work in
................the Province. National Priorities, such as putting in a
................trans-continental railroad or a road to access a new
................Resource or Luxury, even supplying a road to the
................Military for unit advancement in a war, can supersede
................The Priority Lists temporarily, if justified. But if the
................Governor posts his Priority List in the Turn Chat
................Instruction thread, no other kind of tile development
................or improvement may be made by the DP until these
................Priorities are completed.If a Priority List or earmarked
................work action is 4 tiles away from a road, then the
................worker MAY build road to the worksite, but once a road
................is started to the worksite, then the original Work
................action MUST be completed before the worker is
................released.


OK, as stated, these are only working copies of the two proposals at this time. Please posts comments and questions about them and state your feelings in regards to the wording of each proposal or its nature.
__________________

Further discussion in the Senate Forum can be found here.

EDITED 02/24/03 AT 0950 TO ADD THE RESTRICTIONS PROPOSED BY SHAITAN. THE SAME STATEMENT WAS ADDED TO THE END OF BOTH PROPOSED AMENDMENTS.

The priority list sounds good, but when I though of the idea, I was thinking that national priorities would also be a part of the list. That way, the needs of the nation and province are equally satisfied. That clause that allows national priorities to supercede provincial should stay, also.

Well, in a way, you have satisfied your own request. The DP would have an idea of what the National Priorities are and therefore wouldn't need to be included in the Governor's lists. They would be two totally different things. If the DP has a justifiable National Priority, such as railroad or another example, such as those above, then that takes precedence. On the other hand, if no National emergency can be justified, then the Governor's lists must be completed in their Province before any other tile improvement can be done in their Province. It's really very simple to understand. The DP's can do anything thing they want in the Nation, except improve tiles in a Province that a Governor has set Priorities in. If the 3 Priorities have been posted in the t/c Instruction thread, they must be completed before other work can be done in that Province. If I say I need 3 tiles irrigated here, here, and here, then the DP can't come in and mine a tile over there. If there is a National Priority happening at the time, such as a railroad then rails can be put in the Province without a problem. If roads are needed to put the rails in, then roads can be put in for that purpose. But putting roads in a Province that are not there to extend the rail system would be improving a tile that may not be on the Governor's list. Therefore, it would not be allowed. This makes the DP's job easier, as they don't have to keep track of city growth or starvation, or lack of production. They just have to look at the Governor's Priority List and say, "OK, this, this, and this needs to be done." If those jobs are completed, then the DP can do whatever they want in the Province. It's that easy.

I support the earmarking proposal. That way, the Govenor gets ONE IMPROVEMENT in return for building a worker. It would be a greater incentive for govenors to build workers.

The only incentive governor's should ever need is the good of the nation as a whole. I also do not think this should be added to the code of laws, but to the CoS, if it is added at all.

It should be looked at as the Nation rewarding the Province for producing yet another worker for the National Program. The North Province has produced numerous Settlers and Workers and never asked for anything in return. It has also produced Workers that have helped other Provinces. This reward from the Nation would be some good payback.

As far as the proposals going into the CoL, I think that's where they belong. I agree with Shaitan that they should be additions to existing laws to strengthen them and claryify them.

Come on people, The Senate needs your input on this matter. We'd like to put it to poll tomorrow. These additions to the CoL will help clarify a soft spot in our Constitution. If you feel it's just right, I suppose there's no need to respond.

Both of these reduce the DP's ability to efficiently organize workers. In the example under the earmark rule you specify that if the governor said irrigate then the DP could not road the tile until irrigation was complete. That's crazy and flies against basic worker management principles. You always road first so you have the option of movement without loss of action for that worker and any other worker who may be able to assist with the project.

The Priority List could cause havoc. A province can be dozens of tiles across. If the workers are in the west and the instructions are in the east the DP is forced to walk the workers all the way to the other side of the province.

Note that I am not against either of these proposals, I am merely concerned at the invitation of inefficiency they represent. Some ways to counter this would be to stipulate that mandatory worker actions specified by the governor cannot waste more than 1 turn more than normal. For example, there is always 1 wasted turn when roading a tile - the turn that the worker walks onto the unroaded tile. If the instruction was to road a tile 3 tiles away from the worker then there's no problem. If the instruction is to road a tile 4 tiles away then that is an additional wasted turn and that worker should be looking for a job closer to home.

A precedence list could be made that gives the DP the option to always road (railroad?) before doing any other work on a tile.

And yet, there are times when it may be necessary to scurry that worker clear across the province to help build mines around a city attempting to complete a great wonder before our neighbor does... or some other task that needs immediate attention.

Either way, these laws may result in too much restriction in an area that requires extreme flexibility to ensure the possibility of maximizing our worker efficiency. (Note: the use of the word possibility... it still falls to the governors and president to work together to find the best way to employ our workers).

Quite right. That's why the limiters I suggested only limit mandatory actions. The DP could still do everything a governor asks, both efficient and inefficient. They wouldn't be required to do the inefficient ones though.

Hmmm, I'm not sure this is the best possible solution. It seems that this response is a rather draconian one, drawing fairly strict lines, but not really solving the problem.

The loophole that I can immediately see is "National Priorities". Who calls for them? Who decides if they are valid? I'm pretty sure that I could make National Priorities stick to almost any situation, with enough spin on it.

I'm still in favor of concepts that formalize the communication between Governors and the President to handle these problems. I feel that was the cause of the recent angst, and the solution needs to correct it.

That being said, I do like the first proposal to an extent. I still think that the Governors should have a great deal more control than they do. The second proposal seems to have PI written all over it.

-- Ravensfire

I believe we're over-complicating the situation here. I can see how brining up all these complicated situations would lead to confusion and distraction from the main issue.

1. In the Earmarking example, irrigating before roading is not CRAZY. It can happen at any time especially if a city is starving. But I can see how alarmist expressions will help your cause. I do wish you would refrain from using them. IF a second worker were to arrive on the scene then it could start the road while the first is doing the irrigating. I don't see a massive problem here.

2. The Priority Lists will not cause HAVOC. "Oh, my God, there are priorities in this Province, run for the hills!" If work needs to be done in a Province, according to the Governor, then work needs to be done in the Province. If workers are at one end of the map, why would a sensible DP send it all the way to the other end of the map to do work. If another worker is NEEDED at the other end of the map, then so be it. I can't see any sense in that statement, Shaitan.

I will agree, for the sake of this proposal, to your limitations on mandatory actions. But this should only include roads. If a Priority List or earmarked work action is 4 tiles away from a road, then the worker MAY build road to the worksite, but once a road is started to the worksite, then the original Worker action MUST be completed before the worker is released.

There, this statement will be added onto both amendments. Now we have indeed complicated the CoL additons to accomodate your requests.

I must repeat that even before these latest additions to the proposed CoL amendments were maid, and now after, Proposed CoL C.1.G.1 and D.1.E.1 do not restrict the the ability of the DP to do their jobs, which is to carry out the instructions of the Leaders. In fact, before the new complicated additions were added they made it easier. Now that effect has been lessened slightly.

The object of the new proposals is not to give the DP more leeway to do what the DP feels is necessary, but to strengthen the position of the Governors in determining what is best for their Province. As pointed out in the conviction of the current DP in violating CoL D.1.E, these new amendments need to be put in place to help explain what needs to be done.

Originally posted by Cyc
1. In the Earmarking example, irrigating before roading is not CRAZY. It can happen at any time especially if a city is starving. But I can see how alarmist expressions will help your cause. I do wish you would refrain from using them. IF a second worker were to arrive on the scene then it could start the road while the first is doing the irrigating. I don't see a massive problem here.

2. The Priority Lists will not cause HAVOC. "Oh, my God, there are priorities in this Province, run for the hills!" If work needs to be done in a Province, according to the Governor, then work needs to be done in the Province. If workers are at one end of the map, why would a sensible DP send it all the way to the other end of the map to do work. If another worker is NEEDED at the other end of the map, then so be it. I can't see any sense in that statement, Shaitan.

Click to expand...

Those were honest reactions, my apologies if they seemed alarmist.

1. The point is that if the first worker builds a road first the second one won't waste a move getting onto that tile. Yes, sometimes inefficiency will be preferred, as in your example of a starving city. My problem is with mandated inefficiency.

2. Not from across the country, just from across the province. If workers are out of position for the specified worker actions there will be turns wasted as they travel to the work site. The efficient procedure would be to head those workers to the needed area, working tiles along the way. The rules as written would prevent that as it would be other tile improvement in the same province.

The exclusions from mandatory directives are needed but as you note they make a muck of it. This could work much better as an entire new section in the COS. "Worker Management" or some similar title.

I recommend one other change to the second item. The work must be "started" instead of "completed". This is for worker efficiency again and also to prevent conflict between the two rules. It would be quite simple to have an earmarked worker unable to do their earmarked task because they have to go help out on a "priority list" job.

Maybe have "earmarked" jobs required to be on the Priority List?

Originally posted by ravensfire
The loophole that I can immediately see is "National Priorities". Who calls for them? Who decides if they are valid? I'm pretty sure that I could make National Priorities stick to almost any situation, with enough spin on it.

Click to expand...

There are always going to be loopholes around. We just have to vote out the people who abuse them.

National Priorities would be things that the Pres is discussing on the forums for overall development of the nation. Generally this would be the trade network (road/rails) but could also include tile improvements, especially when planning for wonders/forbidden palace, other big improvements.

I would say that 99.9% of "earmarked" work actions will be on the Priority List of the Province that produces the worker. Although the new worker may be earmarked for the second or third work action on the Priority List. I can see that happening, and the "earmarked" work action for that Worker should be done first by that Worker. It's fairly simple. The Worker is "earmarked" for a work action. When it is produced, it goes and does that work action.

And i think including any wording that says a Worker must start a work action and not complete it is very wasteful and goes against any measures you have done so far to increase Worker efficiency.

And National Priorities do not include tile development. Tile development is the responsibility of the Governor. If the President or some other leader has the foresight to prepare a city for future Wonder or Pre-build projects, then those matters should be discussed with the citizens and the Governor of the Province that city is in. That statement was really stretching the limits, Shaitan.

Originally posted by Cyc
And i think including any wording that says a Worker must start a work action and not complete it is very wasteful and goes against any measures you have done so far to increase Worker efficiency.

Click to expand...

That's not at all what I meant. Say you have workers on every task for the priority list. Another worker becomes available. He must now be added onto one of the priority jobs. Another worker becomes available. He must also be added onto one of the priority jobs. The DP can never start another improvment in the province until the Priority List is entirely completed. Maybe "started" is the wrong word. What I want to express is that the priority jobs need to be in process, not completed.

Originally posted by Cyc
And National Priorities do not include tile development. Tile development is the responsibility of the Governor. If the President or some other leader has the foresight to prepare a city for future Wonder or Pre-build projects, then those matters should be discussed with the citizens and the Governor of the Province that city is in. That statement was really stretching the limits, Shaitan.

Click to expand...

Of course such things should be discussed with the governor but there are grey areas of conflicting authority where a non-gubernatorial office would be involved in planning tile development for a national cause. I'm not stretching the limits at all.

Anyway, I'm sensing a bit more tension here than the situation warrants so I'll back off for now.

After thinking on this a bit more I believe we should eliminate the clauses and conditions and just go with the original submissions. The thing is that none of these will eliminate the need for discussion on improvements so trying to regulate efficiency is sort of foolish. The DP always has a Council Override if needed.

Actually Shaitan, I was thinking the same thing (that it was sort of foolish to go through all of that sensationalism), but the changes have been accepted and are now being presented to the Judiciary for posting in poll form and for Judicial Review. At this point, I would like to thank everyone for their input.