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Old Mar 10, 2003, 04:39 PM   #1
Thunderfall
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Civ3 Battle Civulation

Zachriel has created a nifty Javascript program called Battle Civulation that lets you create a simulation of Civ3 Combat using stacks of military units, not just singly. This is not a calculator, but actually accesses the random number generator (RNG) to run hundreds of trials.

http://www.zachriel.com/BattleCivulation.asp
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Last edited by Thunderfall; Mar 10, 2003 at 05:03 PM.
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Old Mar 10, 2003, 09:32 PM   #2
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That's a great utility.
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Old Mar 13, 2003, 08:27 AM   #3
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Very nice calculator.

I assume you work with the standard civ3 health point settings.

If you want to improve your tool, you could read out a scenario file and use the settings there and then present 2 drop down boxes with the units listed.
This would GREATLY help in modifying units stats.

ata
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Old Mar 13, 2003, 09:29 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Atahualpa
Very nice calculator.

I assume you work with the standard civ3 health point settings.

If you want to improve your tool, you could read out a scenario file and use the settings there and then present 2 drop down boxes with the units listed.
This would GREATLY help in modifying units stats.

ata
For those who play mods, it might be a great help. However, it would also require reprogramming the promotion and retreat functions. Currently, they largely depend on hp, but should depend instead on rank. I have considered it -- if I were to revisit the project. Another possible problem is how can I be sure where the scenario file is kept? Might as well add in terrain from the scenario file, too.

(Note to myself: Should add retreat to defensive units.)
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Old Mar 16, 2003, 08:26 AM   #5
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What is Random

For a simple experiment, use the "Flat" preset. Be sure to set the number of Trials = 10.

Now click the Resolve Combat several times. You will notice it varies from 30% to 70% fairly regularly. This means that even with a large numbers of combat units (80 total in this case), over a number of trials, there could be a wide variance in results. In other words, sometimes it will feel that you will be on long losing streak, and other times a long winning streak. Sometimes, you might think that the RNG is broken, or the AI is cheating. Nevertheless, the results are purely random.

The mind will find patterns in random events, but the patterns are meaningless and non-repeating. These phantom patterns reflect patterns in the mind, not in the random events. Indeed, if you could measure the (true) luck of everyone in the world, you would find that some people have been lucky, and some people have been unlucky. The good news is that one's past luck has absolutely nothing to do with one's future luck.
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Old Mar 16, 2003, 08:47 AM   #6
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Tank v. Spearman

DaveMcW suggested an interesting experiement, Tank v. Spearman. To make it interesting, he chose to have two Spearmen for each Tank. Upon DaveMcW's suggestion, I added a preset. Remember that Tanks are Blitz units and will attack until out of movement, dead or retreated.

Results (approximate):

1/5 chance of a particular Tank retreating.
1/10 chance of a particular Tank being destroyed.
5/6 chance of a particular Spearman being destroyed.

(with Spearmen fortified in a Hill City)

Last edited by Zachriel; Mar 16, 2003 at 03:31 PM.
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Old Mar 16, 2003, 03:40 PM   #7
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re: Tank vs. Spearman

So for game-play that would mean, do not attack twice with a tank when its hitpoints are down.

Otherwise I have a strong, if maybe somewhat superstitious feeling, that this - Tank blitz vs. Spearman, is the best way to get a leader.
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Old Mar 16, 2003, 04:18 PM   #8
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Anytime a unit wins two attacks in one turn, it promotes. This does not result in a Leader, but vastly increases the number of opportunities in later battles.
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 04:35 PM   #9
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is it possible for a tank in 1 turn to go from regular to leader?
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Old Mar 20, 2003, 05:51 PM   #10
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Only two-move, thus far

Quote:
Originally posted by NewDestroyer
is it possible for a tank in 1 turn to go from regular to leader?
Currently the Battle Civulation only models a two-move Blitz, so only up to Elite. By the way, two winning attacks on the same turn is an automatic promotion.

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Old Mar 20, 2003, 06:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by smalltalk
So for game-play that would mean, do not attack twice with a tank when its hitpoints are down.
That's right, and probably the source of most reported Tank v. Spearman. "How can a Tank lose to a Spearman?" When he attacks with no ammo or just out of gas.

Quote:
Originally posted by smalltalk
Otherwise I have a strong, if maybe somewhat superstitious feeling, that this - Tank blitz vs. Spearman, is the best way to get a leader.
Anytime a unit wins, it has a chance to be promoted, or if Elite, create a Great Leader. The more lopsided the odds, the better the chance of victory, and so the better the chance of making a Leader. Also Tanks automatically promote if they have two victories in a single turn. Attacking damaged enemy units to promote your own units is a much more common circumstance. One doesn't often get Tank v. Spearman.

But you're right. Tank v. Spearman is a great opportunity to get a Great Leader. With enough enemy Spearmen, all your Tanks could be Elite!
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Old Mar 28, 2003, 09:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zachriel


That's right, and probably the source of most reported Tank v. Spearman. "How can a Tank lose to a Spearman?" When he attacks with no ammo or just out of gas.
But a spear wouldn't be able to touch a tanks armor unless the spearman was smart enough to get on top and open the hatch,but come on,if they still have spears,they wouldn't realise humans are in there
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Old Mar 29, 2003, 06:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by mercadian


But a spear wouldn't be able to touch a tanks armor unless the spearman was smart enough to get on top and open the hatch,but come on,if they still have spears,they wouldn't realise humans are in there
Despite the best efforts of the Propaganda Department, the enemy Spearmen are not dumb, nor cowards. They won't hit the tank with Spears. They will hit it with fire, or subterfuge. They might attack the supply lines, for instance. They will probably die trying.
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Old Apr 16, 2003, 04:32 PM   #14
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well what good is primitive fire against a tank
The tank could simply run them over before its going good enough to hurt-_-'
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Old Apr 16, 2003, 07:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by mercadian
well what good is primitive fire against a tank
The tank could simply run them over before its going good enough to hurt-_-'
There have been ongoing discussions of the combat system.

I'm really sick of this.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=22644

Worst Battle System Ever!!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=35050

Another Plea for the Innocent Numbers!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=30621

Better combat
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=24834

Invincible Spearmen
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=21911
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Old May 13, 2003, 09:07 PM   #16
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Lots of ways. YEss taks have heavy armor. But if you get up close that big guns wont work. Now get on top (most taks have a machine gunner on top to kill them as they get close. 100 spearmen run into the tak and kill the guy on top. Now it is just a matter of time before they get inside. Or kill the tank. Tanks have been stopped by mere rocks and sticks in the past. And tanks just look invicible. THeyt are quite weak if you know their weakness. THe tracks. Those gears and treads and right behind them wires. Cut those the tank cant move. Cut enough and no raido. NO backup. Now you got 3 guys in an armor shell. They die. Like i said.


IT just takes longer. Night. I is midnight here. forgive spl errors please.
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Old Jun 28, 2003, 02:24 PM   #17
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I like the calculator a lot but I have only one problem with the calculator: It doesn't allow me include artl. in the calculations nor does it allow for the units to vary by rank (ok two problems). I have two vetrean mech infantry stacked with a regaular mech infantry along with a artl. unit on a mountain with a fortress but it is unable to calculate all of that so I have to guess if my odds are bigger or smaller. If those were included then I wouldn't need to do think about math at a time when I'm on summer break.
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Old Jul 07, 2003, 01:46 PM   #18
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This whole tank-vs-spearman issue is, I think, blown out of all proportion. If you're looking for a particular military unit that is invincible against another, you won't find it and you shouldn't find it.

When a tank loses against a spearman it's usually 'cause the spearman is fortified (in city) or in favourable terrain (forest). In that context, the tank isn't losing because the spearpoint is penetrating the glacis! It's because the spearman dug tank traps, fashioned burning oil (ala AD&D) for chucking at the floundering 5-million dollar paperweights. Whatever, it doesn't matter.

I remember reading that during the Italian invasion of Ethopia in the 1930's, the latter army possed a total of one automatic machine gun. They still managed to inflict thousands of casualties and knock out or disable armoured vehicles! If the US 3rd Cav invaded Burkina Faso, would they win, yes. Would they likely lose some armoured vehicles...well, no. What was my point again?

Anyway.

I know the civ combat calculator has probably generated the greatest number of posts in this or any site, but I think a major point is being missed. Civ combat, despite the appearance (seperate infantry and armour and artillery) was never intended to be tactical.
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