The Non-Midas Touch, Deity Variant, 1.21PTW

Nad

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Another beautiful day, another great succession game....? :D

The idea behind this game is to make a space race more difficult and tense. Even on deity, most space races become a formality if a human player is in touch with the AIs in the mid-industrial ages, because at that stage the self-reinforcing cycle of selling techs to the AI at exorbitant prices thus funding your own research while bankrupting others, becomes overwhelming. Tech stealing becomes a very handy tactic that can dig a human player out of any difficult situation, and all-in-all, many players regard the late industrial and modern ages as a boring part of a peaceful game, a mundane cycle waiting for a ship to launch. That is what this game will hopefully avoid....


The variant rule in this game is that we will not have access to a treasury...at the end of every turn, we may never have more than 10 gold, the starting treasury. Income can be as high as we can get it, but before we hit "end turn", we must make sure there is no more than 10 gold in the treasury. We can use the cash however we want, on rushing, upgrading, luxes, science, trading, gifts etc, but we may never store it....thus it becomes very difficult to buy or steal techs for a lump sum later in the game, and it also becomes virtually impossible to bankrupt opponents if we cannot keep any cash ourselves.


This variant rule has some serious implications on the game. REPUTATION IS KEY. The most gold we will ever have at any point is one turn's income + any we can make from one turn's diplomacy. It is very unlikely we will be able to buy techs for lump sum...buying in gold per turn will be our only hope for most of the game, so woe betide he who soils our rep unneccasarily! Wall Street is useless when you have a max of 10g in your treasury...and we may well be researching ourselves for most of the game, since if we can't keep gold, we may as well spend it...all-in-all, this should hopefully turn out different to a typical deity game.


Map Settings: Standard size, archipelago, 60% water
Climate, Rainfall, Age: random
Barbarian activity: sedentary
Victory conditions: all are open, we are aiming for a space launch
Rules: Respawn is off, culture-linked start is off
Civ: open to discussion, religious may be very useful to survive anarchy without a treasury; 7 random oponents

Etiquette: a flexible 24/48 to keep the game running smoothly

Signed up:

Nad

Firm Interest (please check in and reconfirm):

Aggie
Jack Merchant
Melifluous

I would like a roster of 6 or 7 players, so 2 or 3 slots are still available. This will probably be a difficult game, so it would be useful if interested players have at least emperor-level competence. If you are interested, please also register what your opinion on the civ we should play is.
 
ME IN!

I wanna play, yay Nad lets kick some more mule!

WTG PW and WD!

2 and 0 lets see if this one will challenge?

Civs...

Hmm how about
a) Rel/Comm - Spain or India
b) Rel/Sci - Babylon

Melifluous
 
Signed up:

Nad
Meli


Religious/Commercial would be a nice combination for this scenario, but not India - just played them! So if we go for that, then Spain. I do also like the sound of Babylon, Egypt, Iroquois, and if not religious, then Greece, Korea, Russia...
 
TofE + UN, or simply the Internet, would get us a GA with Korea, and a late GA might be a good idea in this variant. Nevertheless, take your point :goodjob: I'm simply throwing out some ideas for discussion
 
Signed up so far:

Nad
Meli
Aggie

do we agree that we definitely want to play a religious civ?
 
spain is great, as you cna use the UU or not (i.e. keep the GA back until you want it). imagine doing that with india or Japan........ impossible
 
Nad, I want to play religous, but we only need to be in one anarchy phase (to republic).

My choice of civs:

1. Egypt (Best traits)
2. Iroquois (I hate the expansionist trait if not on pangaea or with a lot of other expansionists. Great UU)
3. Korea (I like the idea of a late GA. Commercial is good for gpt and scientific is great because of the free techs)
4. Babylon (Good traits)
5. Greece (Strong early UU, good traits)

EDIT: 6. Spain (not my kind of UU, good traits)
 
I like your thinking there Aggie. So far, the ones I'm interested in are Egypt, Iroquois, Babylon, Spain. Egypt would be good because of the one turn anarchy and the fast workers rendering democracy superfluous, so only 1 revolution....Iroquois, cos 60% land means lots of huts, and also because I can't remember the last time there was an Iroquois SG.... Babylon, great traits, scientific could be very handy in this variant, also not used very often in SGs....Spain, quite fitting to have a commercial civ in a no-gold variant....so, still plenty of discussion to go wrt civ choice...will also see what other participants opinions are....
 
I want to join ! :cool:

This is gonna be a tough Deity game ! I'm looking forward to the end of the game, I hope it won't be boring too.

Civ : I think we need at least commercial or scientific, to have a real bonus in our science funds. If we take both, that leads us to... Greece or Korea. If we want to take another trait (religious is nice, but can someone says what happens during Anarchy again ? I once made a terrible mistake by buying a tech for some gpt just before...), we can pick Babylon, India (hum) or Spain. So my rank :
Greece
Korea
Babylon
Spain
India
Also could we have a special rule to survive Anarchy with a gpt deal without going bankrupt ? ;) If yes, then consider I really want Greece or Korea.
With an archipelago map, it might also be better to have Hoplites, so as to colonize many islands without much problem. Also, a late Korean golden age won't be very helpful, since corruption is high overseas, no ?

Nad, could you just explain the title of this game, I'm too lazy to find it out by myself... ;)

EDIT : It might be that Midas was rich, is this it ? Eh eh Midas is Greek IIRC, so it could be funny to play as Greece to kill Midas and rule at his place... :)
 
Hello Krys!!! The phase wars crew reuniting! A real pity Grimjack can't sign up or we'd have the same team again!

Signed up:

Nad
Meli
Aggie
Krys

Awaiting confirmation from Jack Merchant

1 or 2 more places are available still

The title: Midas was the legendary king who, because of his greed, was bestowed a special power, which he thought to be a blessing but which turned out to be a curse, that is everything he touched turned to gold. Since we won't have any gold, I thought non-Midas touch was quite fitting.

Krys, about the anarchy problem: during anarchy, you do not have any income; but if you have any outgoing gpt to other civs, you still have to pay. In normal games most players build their treasuries up before revolution so they can meet their outgoing gpt debts durinf the anarchy period: we can't do that because we cannot have a treasury, and I do not want to add special rules to make it easier for us during anarchy. We can still play a non-religious civ, but then we would have to make sure we had no deals before revolting, or we would have to hire loads of taxmen during anarchy and maybe let our cities starve...thus religious is helpful, though not essential.

So far one vote for Greece, one for Egypt. Meli, what's your top choice?
 
Hmm my choices...

I believe expansionist and scientific could be cool...

Expansionist would get lots of tech early game from huts.
Scientific would ensure our continued tech superiority...
Commercial would be too easy, kinda anti-anti-midas.. Not what I believe you are after.
Religious is OK, but taxmen soon sort out negative balances during our single Government change to Republic...
Militaristic... Do we wanna war? Nah...
Industrious.. Too easy ;)

So Sci and Expansionist means Russia....

Wierd huh?

Still Cossack lead GA at the end of the Middle Ages cant be sneezed at...

So?

Russia?

Melifluous
 
This is a fascinating concept and I wish you good luck. You'll need it... ;)
Oh, for the days of SMAC when you could "partially" rush something with credits INCLUDING Secret Projects (SMAC's wonders).

EDIT (I seem to make a bad habit of remembering stuff I wanted to say after I post):
Russia is an AWESOME civ. Scientific and Expansionistic make a great combo, as Meli said. Scientific gives you cheap libraries AND helps you get more for the same when you waste your money on research. Why? Well, since the 40-turn gambit is kind of out, you'll be doing your own research. And with the Scientific attribute, you get either discounts on tech costs when you research or more beakers (I don't remember). So when you run research at the break-even rate, you research faster and still make no money! Also, Nationalism will be your best friend for wars. Since you won't have enough money to cash-rush defenders in captured cities, you will need the draft!
Plus, the Cossack's extra d point helps it survive attacks from Cavs, and it can be reasonably used for defense in the newly-captured town until Nationalism comes in and you whip out the draft cards :D.
Wow, my edit's longer than my post. I need to remember to not NEED to edit in the future ;).
 
@ Stuck as a Mac: if you believe you can handle this game then you are welcome to join. I will point out that this is beyond typical deity so that might affect your thinking, in case you were looking for a standard deity game to cut your teeth at. If you are up for a serious challenge then you are very welcome, and you'll find this team very encouraging with plenty of discussion of strategy between turns (if you do wish to join, please could you let us know your opinion on the civ to play).


1 vote each for Russia, Egypt, and Greece so far. They are all very good civilizations and I think everyone has presented excellent cases. If needs be I will make a casting vote but as yet there are still votes to come from Jack Merchant (if he confirms he wishes to play...where is he?), Stuck, if he chooses to participate, and a maximum of one more person who wishes to join.

Tsukemono....thank you very much for your encouragement, reader opinions are always welcomed and appreciated :goodjob:
 
Your reputation being tainted is going to be a BIG problem. Not only are you going to have to buy using per turn payment, you are not going to be able to put luxuries or resources into the deal, because trade routes can be broken and you'll get the blame.

Even then, there's a good chance your reputation will get trashed at some point through no fault of your own.

I think this is an interesting-sounding variant, but the game's unfair judgement of deal-breaking risks ruining it.

-Sirp.
 
Originally posted by Sirp
Your reputation being tainted is going to be a BIG problem. Not only are you going to have to buy using per turn payment, you are not going to be able to put luxuries or resources into the deal, because trade routes can be broken and you'll get the blame.

Even then, there's a good chance your reputation will get trashed at some point through no fault of your own.

I think this is an interesting-sounding variant, but the game's unfair judgement of deal-breaking risks ruining it.

-Sirp.

I think Sirp puts his finge4r on THE point of the game: making SURE that deal do not get broken DESPITE the unfair judgement...... (whihc is one of the reasons I didn't ask to join ;))
 
But really, there's no way to guarantee that you're going to avoid that. In RBE1, we bought something or another off the Iroquois for gpt. The Iroquois were a powerful civ, probably the second most powerful in the world.

They got dogpiled on, and being surrounded by other civs, they collapsed quickly. They were destroyed one turn before our deal with them ran out. Our reputation got trashed.

There's no real way you can avoid things like that happening. I guess you could gift them some out-of-the-way city to keep them alive a little longer, but really...

-Sirp.
 
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