More savegames!!

I like the GOTM. It makes you learn a lot of tactics etc.
What I would like, is that people save more savegames and send in. I am very interested in the beginning of the game, like 2000 BC and 1000 BC. If people send in those savegames too, it would show pretty good how you develop yourselves.

What do you think of my suggestion?

I know myself and starlifter have always offered additional saved games to those who would like to see how we play. I think the required games for the GOTM are more of a way to check that the game was actually played out correctly than anything else. I know many of us use them the see the progress accomplished by other players.

Not all players want to show others how they play. They might feel they have some 'trick' they use that they don't want anyone to know about, or something like that.

I would have no problem with offereing more saves for the GOTM, but I am not sure if it should be a requirement for all players.

I won't make it a requirement. A lot of people already have troubles saving the game at 1 and 1000 AD. But if you like you could just send in more savegames and I'll include them. Especially the 'big' players, since people will like to learn from them.

As for the people who don't want to show their tactics: that would be weak! I would actually call it a requirement to show how you played to the public. That's for most people even what it's all about. So such behavior won't be appreciated. :ak47:

Hi el_kalkylus, welcome to the GOTM threads! I see you've come on over after our discussions in the other Forums and threads. Don't forget that the GOTM deadline is 2 October to submit this month's game to Matrix.

Go to the GOTM 6 Spoiler thread, and I've got a bunch of savegames already uploaded to it. There didn't seem to be much interest in them one way or the other, so I haven't been continuing to upload games on all my updates. People like the logs I make better, and they provide much more info about stragegy... plus, if you get "ahead of the curve" in my log, you will know you're doing "well"... at least relative to my own particular game.

But it is a coincidence that I finally have started my GOTM 8 again today after only playing it once since the bombing (I'm in 1 AD at the moment). Well actually, not a real coincidence... it sort of came out of the detailed strategy stuff in our other thread.


I'm planning to make a "puzzle" out of building a SS in one turn, because I had to use some fairly fancy gyrations from the Starlifter School of Trade to get it done, LOL. It took me over an hour to work out the exact details of getting a flyable SS built in one turn with the resources available, and it demonstrates the physical aspects, as well as many other principles of trade bonuses, to get the job done. I'll probably finish the turn tonight (and hope it flies) and make a file of it soon.

I like the GOTM. It makes you learn a lot of tactics etc. What I would like, is that people save more savegames and send in. I am very interested in the beginning of the game, like 2000 BC and 1000 BC. If people send in those savegames too, it would show pretty good how you develop yourselves.

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The only current requirement is 1 AD and 1000 AD, but I favor at least 1000 BC and 1500 AD also. However, we're all in the middle of a big discussion about GOTM scoring in another thread at the moment, so I'm putting off making too many more suggesting and "overloading" those who are having a difficulty thinking about a pile of stuff over there.

The one thing to be careful about is your last few savegames. As myself and others have found out when parts of our posts get deleted, it would violate the intent of Matrix and Thunderfall's ground rules to tell people how you did at the end of the game, or even post savegames at the end. But after a GOTM is over (generally, when the results by Matrix are done or almost done), no worries.

People's strategies make different parts of the game more interesting than others. In my own games, the cool stuff starts happening at about Industrialization. For others, like Shadowdale, Smash, Cactus Pete, and the "conquerors", the coolest stuff happens early on. If you're developing a strategy, it might be best to take/learn the best of several styles before you get set in your ways too much .

Not all players want to show others how they play. They might feel they have some 'trick' they use that they don't want anyone to know about, or something like that.

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Remember, one need only share what one wants . I think just about anyone will talk about their games if you ask directly. Shadowdale and Smash post info in other threads scattered thru CivFanatics, for instance. One more thing I would like, but you can't legislate it, is that everyone should post about their games. I personally like reading about what happened to everyone, not just the highest scorers.

PS, You may never get to read this thread if the "Post Police" decide it is too long, LOL!!

PPS, I'm sort of in the "doghouse" for availing myself of the 10,000 character post limit in recent days, hehe... and there is a new 2-scroll screen "delete" rule which might apply in some of these GOTM threads starting yesterday!! But since I have a high-resolution, tiny font computer and have stretched my browser width to the max, my 2 screenfulls are equal to about 10 for some folks,

Public Service Message: This message is shortened to 4,178 characters long.

While I have long since finished with #8,I intend to play "normally"(whatever that is) in #9 and try to keep something of a log.I would like to go for a fast SS,and log important events and possibly what I was thinkin at the time,but we'll have to wait and see what is in store.

Over at Apolyton.Scouse Gits has a turn by turn comparison game going.Some are logging and saving every turn for others scrutiny.There are comparisons at different dates checking different levels including something interesting called Build Power.The formula is Sheilds-support=total call that X.Then set taxes just maintain order and max the rest in to taxes.The amount of gold generated minus maintainence is Y.

so
X+(1/2Y)=BP

My civs produces 50 sheilds.10 are needed for support.Net 40

Taxes generate 400 gold.30 needed for maintainence.so Y is 370

40+185=225

Matrix: Yes it would be good if people wanted to do that. Hope there isn't extra work for you because of it.

starlifter: I would like to see these games you upgraded. I didn't find any GOTM6 SPOILERS thread with any links or files on it, and when I downloaded from the GOTM-archive, it was the same savegames as before and no new ones.
Good luck with that "SS in one turn" -thing, and try to write less than 10,000 characters next time. We all missed, your probably very informative and amusing, 4178 characters this time.

Originally posted by el_kalkylus

I would like to see these games you upgraded. I didn't find any GOTM6 SPOILERS thread with any links or files on it, and when I downloaded from the GOTM-archive, it was the same savegames as before and no new ones.
Good luck with that "SS in one turn" -thing, and try to write less than 10,000 characters next time. We all missed, your probably very informative and amusing, 4178 characters this time.

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I can see my choice of words was bad. Matrix did not edit my prior post, but I can see how my own last sentence "Public Service Message:" could be read that way. It was subtle humor because Matrix sent me a PM telling me I yammer on too long in some of my posts, and wants me to "summarize", LOL. But I write in detail, and figure people can skim if the want.

But he left me alone (he didn't censor me... yet ), and he's a really pretty cool dude, even though I've been having some rather spirited discussions in the "Cap" thread for the last 2 days. I'm going to have to send Matrix thru the "Evelyn Wood Speedreading Course for the Dutch", I think... so he can read my posts!


I just checked the GOTM 6 thread and Holy Cow, all my uploaded save games from it are totally gone!! I know Thunderfall and Matrix edited (censored) some of my posts when someone complained about seein maps in the spoiler thread, so I uploaded a bunch of savegames instead. They wre there in July, but I had to leave for almost 6 weeks, until returning in Late August, and neverwent back to make sure they were still there.

I think, however, that all the links were destroyed by Thunderfall's conversion from the old database last week. I think if TF or Matrix cut all those uploads out of my posts, they would have said so. I don't think they will censor in secret, and no one complained at the time. So I will go back and find my old zip files which I hope are still in my backup archive. I'll upload them with links tonight or tomorrow.

Here is the thread and page where they used to be: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5122&perpage=15&pagenumber=4

Mark the thread and when it pops back up to the top, the save games and links will be restored.

All such attachments appear to have been lost or temporarily relocated to an undislosed location

vb has that ability.I think it will return in some form.Lost stuff may be just that...lost.

Posted by el_kalkylus:

I would like to see these games you upgraded. I didn't find any GOTM6 SPOILERS thread with any links or files on it, and when I downloaded from the GOTM-archive, it was the same savegames as before and no new ones.

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I had to go to a backup archive to find these saves... my own 4th hard drive (my Multimedia/Zips drive) evidently got corrupted by Windows and messed up most of my TIFFs, and the bad CRCs make Zips unextractable. But I did find a 2nd set of backups, so anyway, now maybe these links will remain online!

Years 1, 1000, and 1890: Use Matrix' archived copies.

For the Uploads, see the following post because there is no way to add the upload to an edited post that I can see .

PS, GOTM 6 is really not a model game, esp. until Democracy, which did not happen until 1824 as I recall. The empire should have been switched to Republic/Democracy much earlier, despite the military costs!!!

General critique:

Stayed in Monarchy/Commie way way too long. "Rationalized" this stupidity by whining about the terrain and seemingly ceaseless fighting. Continual overoptimism about the changeover date (which kept delaying) wound up costing about 50 years.

I'd say the biggest lesson for some to learn from is how to grow quickly when transitioning from Commie/Fundy. You have to plan. All cities were grown with their natural food supplies, and lots also got joined engineers. The FCT was not used, but some food caravans were in the last few years, if grown cities were in danger of eating the rood reserve to zero before the SS landed.

Engineers were almost always joined to cities founded after 1860. Once it became pretty clear that about 1890 was a realistic SS land date, all city planning and clearing was done backed up from that date.

Airfields and Engineer Stacks are critical to keeping cities growing simultaneously, as well as massive engineer shuffles and food sharing. Without massive commodity freight, growth will stagnate... it may not be obvious at first glance, but the real secret to growing in uninterrupted WLTP days is gold... and more gold.

A "trade secret" I use is to get a city of 40 shields cranking out one engineer per day, which then joins cities and makes them begin instant WLTP. The city essentially "grows" another city with no rush buying, and compounds new cities' WLTP days! E.g., 18 engineers per turn equals 60 cities from size 3 to size 16 in 10 years. Plus a few scrap engineers as they become expendable. That's because, in general, you can get a size 16 city in 10 years if you got tons of gold (build an improvement every turn=80 gold penalty).



Added note: I can see the years 1500, 1700, 1800, 1850 are now installed as links correctly (below)... Glad to see the "upload" function works, but you can't add an upload with an edit, and you can only upload one file per post, as far as I can see.

Bonus for newer players: FWIW, I have made a Word document of the posts describing the game from the GOTM 6 thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=74039#post74039

Its in Word2000 format, but if someone needs .TXT, I can convert it and upload it in a day or two. Now you don't have to go find them all and wait for downloads.

This is the uploaded narrative of GOTM 6 (I think).

Archived Years 1500, 1700, 1800, 1850 (All 4 .SAV files are Zipped in this one file):

Nice! I checked them out. I found it odd that you didn't establish any trade-routes like you did in your GOTM7 game, but I have my ideas why.

I have more or less studied yours, smash's and shadowdale's games (and some others) and tried to copy your game-styles. Every game I played to 1 AD has been unsuccessful, but I start feeling more secure now. Trading is getting less of a mystery for me now.

This game is getting more fun by the minute. I am just waiting for that perfect start, then I can concentrate on the other parts of the game (like starlifters "trading secret" etc (nice btw!)).

BTW, I hate barbarians (raging hordes) and huts. They always take my cities! ...and they never lose a battle!!! Next time I will build barracks too...hmmmm.

PS. It's really hard to get into this forum. It seems like the server is always down.

Nice! I checked them out. I found it odd that you didn't establish any trade-routes like you did in your GOTM7 game, but I have my ideas why.

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In GOTM6, the continent was large and I immediately got into a war with the Vikings, who had expanded beyond one city. Wars are better handled in a Monarchy in early game. Then a big war with the Celts, and then the Persians and English. It just never ended!

In GOTM 7, I was able to easily control the expansion of the Celts in England. I did not go for early Mapmaking, and so did not get into an early war in Europe and divert critical resources. I made all the shields I could in England to crank out a base economy and selected Wonders, then sent some trade, settlers, and Diplomats to expand. The early "foriegn" bonus of the Celt city was nice to have, which was in part why I kept them around.

The big disadvantage to the GOTM 7 method (perfection) is that expansion is slowed once you go to Republic, and are building improvements and wonders. You also can't bribe as many cities when your gold goes back into perfecting.

BTW, I hate barbarians (raging hordes) and huts. They always take my cities! ...and they never lose a battle!!! Next time I will build barracks too...hmmmm.

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That is not the way I personally handle it. Make barbs an advantage not a liability!!! Use DIPLOMATS to defend by bribing!!! Fortify on defensible terrain to soak up the first attack!!!

Barbs CANNOT defeat your first city, until you have founded a 2nd. Once you build a 2nd city, however, all bets are off. To repeat... EVEN a barb vet. howitzer cannot defeat a defending unfortified warrior, if you have never founded a 2nd city!

So make barbs an advantage. I hate settings other than Raging Hordes, because my early economy takes a HUGE hit by not getting the 150g from the barb leader ransoms!! One leader is worth about 2 caravans, or half an early wonder!!

Originally posted by starlifter
That is not the way I personally handle it. Make barbs an advantage not a liability!!! Use DIPLOMATS to defend by bribing!!! Fortify on defensible terrain to soak up the first attack!!!

Barbs CANNOT defeat your first city, until you have founded a 2nd. Once you build a 2nd city, however, all bets are off. To repeat... EVEN a barb vet. howitzer cannot defeat a defending unfortified warrior, if you have never founded a 2nd city!

So make barbs an advantage. I hate settings other than Raging Hordes, because my early economy takes a HUGE hit by not getting the 150g from the barb leader ransoms!! One leader is worth about 2 caravans, or half an early wonder!!

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I ususally don't have writing when the barbarians come, but when I do, the barbarians are too expensive. I don't usually have the money because I hurry buying troops in the beginning. They cost 55gp+ a piece. It's cheaper buying horsemen in the cities. About the defensive terrain...sometimes the barbarians come just next to your city with boat. Usually they take the city then. Barbarians can take every city except the capital.

I ususally don't have writing when the barbarians come, but when I do, the barbarians are too expensive. I don't usually have the money because I hurry buying troops in the beginning. They cost 55gp+ a piece. It's cheaper buying horsemen in the cities. About the defensive terrain...sometimes the barbarians come just next to your city with boat. Usually they take the city then. Barbarians can take every city except the capital.

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Writing is one of my very top early priorities!! I personally don't rush troops at first. I get and keep about 100g in the bank for bribes of the 41g barb horsemen. Their leaders are worth 150g! Sea barbs are the most dangerous, since they can appear next to your city and walk right in. That is why I put at least something in all the coastal cities I can. Even a caravan/warrior/horseman/diplomat.

I presume barbs can take your capital... they take the AI capitals. Are you saying a barb can NEVER take the human capital? I'd have to test that. I have never lost a capital, except in test cases to see how the whole "rebel faction" split works.

Originally posted by starlifter
I presume barbs can take your capital... they take the AI capitals. Are you saying a barb can NEVER take the human capital? I'd have to test that. I have never lost a capital, except in test cases to see how the whole "rebel faction" split works.

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Sorry, I don't know if barbarians can take your capital, it's just that I never lost my capital.

My top priority in the beginning is to get the monarchy. Without monarchy I get so much waste and corruption that totally destroys my progression. I once chose writing, map-making, bronze working, horseback riding and masonry before the important ceremonial burial and code of laws, and I was stuck with depotism (and all its waste) until 25 BC!! I didn't have anything other than settlers and horsemen to build, so that was a pretty bad game.

I find it really hard to get the right balance between expansion and development. How many settlers are appropriate? That question is always nagging back in my head.

well I have heard its 2 cities.3 cities and 4 cities.All I know is 1 is fairly safe.

I have lost my only city twice.This appears to be a mac only thing.2 others have reported it and they are also on the mac version.Only on Raging.The mac version also has barbs from huts before founding(rare and only after awhile-2000 bc and later) and barbs before the magic turn.16 iirc.

This is another good example of why the mac sucks!!

OK, Chofritz and el_kalkylus, et. al., a few GOTM saves are up on the spoiler thread now, along with the little "SS in 1 turn" challenge, with a before and after save to see how, plus a text timeline:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5145&perpage=15&pagenumber=8

Oh nice!

However I can't watch your saves here on macintosh scince I don't have MGE, Will check it out on sunday. Well, I made my ss in 1 turn too. But stupid me didn't build it right away, Waited until 540! Also I was stupid enough to go into fundamentalism for about 30 turns,

BTW when are you on ICQ? If you have a cable connection why dont you just keep ICQ running?