Whither the Zoroastrians? - Page 2

aneeshm · Sep 30, 2003, 08:14 AM

No , their roots are from Mesopotamia(I think , not at all sure) . Their marriage rituals may be a problem to the community , though .

Tathlum · Sep 30, 2003, 08:29 AM

I'm pretty sure Aheru Mazda at least started in India. Don't know where the Zoroastrian faith itself comes from, but Mesopotamia certainly doesn't sound unfeasable.

Ozz · Sep 30, 2003, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aphex_Twin
If the Roman Empire wouldn't have gone Christian, Zoroastrism would have been a close second option. IIRC emperor Julian tried, and failed to introduce Zoroastrism.

Miltiarism would have been second, it also was #1 in the army
switch carrys a lot of weight in the late empire.

Vrylakas · Sep 30, 2003, 11:57 AM

I strongly recommend anyone interested in the evolution of monotheism and Western concepts of religion to check out Paul Kriwaczek's book In Search of Zarathustra, which just came out a couple years ago. An excellent read, and he makes a convincing case for linking Zoarastrians to Bogomilism, the Cathars, and other insideous heresies in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

And indeed, Zoarastrianism was the official religion of Persia for much of its pre-Islamic history.

Mescalhead · Sep 30, 2003, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tathlum
Don't their roots go back to India, with the Aryans?

The ancient Persians were an indo-european people believed to be closely related to the east-Aryans, and possibly the Hittites.

Mescalhead · Sep 30, 2003, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tathlum
I'm pretty sure Aheru Mazda at least started in India. Don't know where the Zoroastrian faith itself comes from, but Mesopotamia certainly doesn't sound unfeasable.

Every Near-Eastern and eastern Mediterranean religion, aside from maybe Egypt, has major tenets that can be traced back to Sumer.

SeleucusNicator · Sep 30, 2003, 04:54 PM

[edit] deleted annoying terminology nitpicking post, ignore [/edit]

andrewgprv · Sep 30, 2003, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aphex_Twin
Zoroastrism never had a powerfull state to support it, like Christianity did (the Roman Empire, the Bizantines, Charlemagne) or the Mahomedanism (the Arab, Ottoman).

Persia one of the greatest Empires of the ancient world was zoroastriam.

andrewgprv · Sep 30, 2003, 05:15 PM

Now if I remeber correctly there was a time that Jerusalem was lawless and chaotic, it was currently under the rule of Persia. Persia sent a man to bring order to Jerusalem. He taught the city inhabitants The Writings of their Ancesters "The Torah/Old Testament" he helped to establish order through religous means. Couldn't it have been probable that in doing so Judaism picked up quite a few Zoroastrium traits?

andrewgprv · Sep 30, 2003, 05:20 PM

Intresting link

http://www.meta-religion.com/World_R..._religions.htm

Houman · Jul 17, 2004, 12:12 AM

Hello everyone,

As a Persian and someone who practice the Zoroastrian faith, I would like to help you to understand us and our religion.

Zarahustra was the Prophet of the Zoroastrians he is born 3700 ago in near of Urmia-sea in Iran. His real name is Spitama. As a child he was very interested in religion and philosophy. In that time, the country was under the iron rule of the Mithra Priests who oppressed the people for high tributes and sacrifices to the temples. In the time as he was 15 years old he left the daily life to concentrate and communicate with his creator.

As he was 20 years old he went completely into the abstinence by moving to the mountains. He meditated every day to understand god through the philosophical understanding of the existence of the truth. Meanwhile he was disturbed by the evil ghost, which wanted to stop him from his way.

This fight between bad and good is the main aspect of the Zoroastrian doctrine. After ten years as he was thirty years old he went back to the city. He was not welcome in the city. The Mithra priests were skeptical because of his revolutionist way and the doctrine of monotheism.

A long time he had just one follower of the new religion of Zoroastrian. After years of hard work he could convince King Vishtaspa in east Bacria (todays Afganistan) of his doctrine. After long discussions with Vishtaspa about philosophy and the new doctrine Vishtaspa started his fight against the lie and the bad and for the truth and the good. This is the time where the Zoroastrian Religion started to spread all over Iran (which was much bigger tha nowadays). The prophet Zoroaster spread the word for 47 years and died in age of 77.

The Zoroastrian Doctrine was the first monotheism religion of humanity. It influenced the Judaism in it's today's version, Christianity and Islam. e.g. The idea of Paradise and Hell comes from Zoroastrians. Paradise is derived from the Persian word 'Pardis'.

Zoroastrian at a glance:

Monotheism:

Zarahustra (or Zoroaster) accepts 'Ahura Mazda' as the only god and declined all other gods from the Mithraism inclusive Mithra herself. Many other Polytheistic Religions from that time tried to resist the Monotheism.

Understanding the role of God

You have to distinguish the role of God in Zoroastrian from Judaism, Christianily and Islam. Zoroastirasm which is an old Arian religion has a different view.

Ahura Mazda is not like the jewish Jahwe, whom you have to be scared of as an believer nor is Ahura Mazda the Jevoha from Christianity, where you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins since your day of birth, nor is Ahura Mazda Allah, who rules strict and almighty and Allah's own will is the main point of everything in someone’s life.

Ahura Mazda has a different picture. It represents the truth and wisdom, who reveals to someone through good thoughts, good words and good deeds. Ahura Mazda is the Good and creator of this world and everything which is Good. A Zoroastrian communicate with Ahura Mazda like with a wise friend, who reminds him of the right way in someone's life.

Good and Evil

The world is a place of a battle between the two counteractive powers of Good and Evil, which are represented by the good ghost "Spenda Mainyu" and the ghost of Evil "Angro Mainyu". But these 'ghosts' are not a living thing but they have be understood as virtue and burden in someone. Everyone should believe the final victory of Good against the Evil and should work hard in his/her life to choose the Good way and resist the Evil.

This dualism is typical for Zoroastrians and continues in every aspect of the Zoroastrians philosophy.

Goal

3700 years ago It was a radical move to change the whole Polytheistic world into the Monotheism. The highest goal of Zoroastrism is the final victory of Good against the Evil, which might first seem to be impossible.

Zarahutra lived in a time of oppression and corruption, in a time of exploiting and lies. Mainly 'Lies' are the main reason for the destruction of the society. The Mithra Priests had the people with lies and superstitions under control. They exploited the peasants and stopped the productive advancement of the country. Zarahustra believed in the truth as the only way to God and the only way which bring the humanity to the happiness and advancement. For this reason the righteousness is main virtue in this religion.

The prophet and his followers try to change the world and revivel it through righteousness and truth ness. He tries to create a world, where people don't lie and don’t betray each other; to create a world where everyone improves the evolution of humanity.

For this reason it is understandable to see the first Persian dynasty the Achamenids reached a golden age and glory in humanity's civilization (King Cyrus who fought the Babylonians and released all slaves and gave back the freedom to the Jews and rebuilt their temple. From that time everyone could believe even in any god they have wished to praise. Tolerance was the key!)

I have few more topics like ‘everyone's responsibility’, ‘Ethics’ and ‘Paradise and Hell’.

If you are interested in them, I am glad to explain them to you. If you still have questions about why we don't (can't) intermarry or why we are vanishing or any kind of questions, I am glad to answer your questions.

Houman

Archer 007 · Jul 17, 2004, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeleucusNicator

http://www.toolong.org/ is an interesting site on Zoroastrian/Mithracian influences in Christianity. It is actually a Christian organization seeking to expel those elements from the religion.

Ive read that site before. I dont really get it.

Archer 007 · Jul 17, 2004, 12:25 AM

Houman, nice post!

zjl56 · Jul 17, 2004, 12:29 AM

This religion seems to have had major influences in the Middle East. I know that Judaism and Zoroastrism have alot in common. I have heard some things about this religion and it seems like it goes along with alot of teachings that are taught in Christianity and Judaism. I have even heard some speculation as to such that the three wise men who visited Jesus at his birth were Zoroastrism.

Vietcong · Jul 17, 2004, 12:54 AM

the odds are thay whear zoroasterian*sp*, if not that some trible religon from arabia (ther is evadence to saport them not comeing from persia, but from places suchs as bablyon, or arabia)

it started out in iran, but zoroaster was a out cast, he flad to a kingdom thats in afghanistan whear he found a home and falowers. ther it spred (i think from what i read a while back)

the first monothistest religon?? are u sure, it whold have been about the year 1600-600 (i read ther is unseratanty about is acaly birth, to be u can even say 3000-600 bc). but what about aktin(spelling) the father of king tut, he founded a sect of egyption relgion with one god (the sun god), tho it never realy coght on

Archer 007 · Jul 17, 2004, 01:03 AM

Vietcong, I think your right about Tut's dad. IIRC, the name of the diety was Anon.

The Last Conformist · Jul 17, 2004, 01:12 AM

Avestan, the language of the Zoroastrian canon, is East Iranian. Should be a pretty good clue to where Zarathustra came from.

Perfection · Jul 17, 2004, 01:17 AM

Zoroastrism is good and all but needs a little bit more...

That's why I propose Zorroastrism!

It's like regular Zoroastrism except with Zorro!

If Zorro won't entice more followers then I don't anything else would!

Blasphemy, you ask? Well, just think of this, it's better than scientology!

Now tell me that this isn't a good idea! Zorroastrism will carry over the spiritual philosophy of Zoroastrism and add an awesome spokesman!

Houman · Jul 17, 2004, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer 007

Houman, nice post!

Thank you Archer.

Houman

Houman · Jul 17, 2004, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vietcong

the odds are thay whear zoroasterian*sp*, if not that some trible religon from arabia (ther is evadence to saport them not comeing from persia, but from places suchs as bablyon, or arabia)
it started out in iran, but zoroaster was a out cast, he flad to a kingdom thats in afghanistan whear he found a home and falowers. ther it spred (i think from what i read a while back)

This is what I wrote in my Posting! And please understand that Afghanistan exists just since few hundred years. Before it was a Part of Iran for thousands of years. It is historically wrong saying Zoroaster has spread the word from Afghanistan, correct is Bacria which was a part of Iran in that time.

Quote:

the first monothistest religon?? are u sure, it whold have been about the year 1600-600 (i read ther is unseratanty about is acaly birth, to be u can even say 3000-600 bc). but what about aktin(spelling) the father of king tut, he founded a sect of egyption relgion with one god (the sun god), tho it never realy coght on

I don't know about this sub culture in egypt. Fact is that this sun god didn't spread as a Monotheistic Religion. It couldn't even unite the whole egypt, how could it ever spread to other countries to influence them?

Yes I am sure that Zoroastrism is the first monotheism Religion. You can read that from many historical and Archeological books about that time period. The word Paradise is Persian and not egyptian, this is another proof of the Zoroastrian influence on later religions in middle east.

Regards
Houman

Sep 30, 2003, 11:57 AM	#24
Vrylakas The Verbose Lord Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bostonia Posts: 1,947	I strongly recommend anyone interested in the evolution of monotheism and Western concepts of religion to check out Paul Kriwaczek's book In Search of Zarathustra, which just came out a couple years ago. An excellent read, and he makes a convincing case for linking Zoarastrians to Bogomilism, the Cathars, and other insideous heresies in the Judeo-Christian tradition. And indeed, Zoarastrianism was the official religion of Persia for much of its pre-Islamic history. __________________ ************************* "We seek a past from which we may spring, rather than that past from which we appear to have derived." - F. Nietzsche, The Use and Abuse of History

Sep 30, 2003, 04:54 PM	#27
SeleucusNicator Diadoch Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: America Posts: 5,454	[edit] deleted annoying terminology nitpicking post, ignore [/edit] __________________ "I bring not peace, but the sword." -- Matthew 10:34

Sep 30, 2003, 05:15 PM	#29
andrewgprv Second Class Citizen Join Date: May 2002 Location: Idaho Falls, USA Posts: 3,541	Now if I remeber correctly there was a time that Jerusalem was lawless and chaotic, it was currently under the rule of Persia. Persia sent a man to bring order to Jerusalem. He taught the city inhabitants The Writings of their Ancesters "The Torah/Old Testament" he helped to establish order through religous means. Couldn't it have been probable that in doing so Judaism picked up quite a few Zoroastrium traits? __________________ Are You Donating To The Republican Party Without Knowing It? www.choosetheblue.com

Sep 30, 2003, 05:20 PM	#30
andrewgprv Second Class Citizen Join Date: May 2002 Location: Idaho Falls, USA Posts: 3,541	Intresting link http://www.meta-religion.com/World_R..._religions.htm __________________ Are You Donating To The Republican Party Without Knowing It? www.choosetheblue.com

Jul 17, 2004, 12:12 AM	#31
Houman TR Team Leader Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,082	The truth about Zoroastrism Hello everyone, As a Persian and someone who practice the Zoroastrian faith, I would like to help you to understand us and our religion. Zarahustra was the Prophet of the Zoroastrians he is born 3700 ago in near of Urmia-sea in Iran. His real name is Spitama. As a child he was very interested in religion and philosophy. In that time, the country was under the iron rule of the Mithra Priests who oppressed the people for high tributes and sacrifices to the temples. In the time as he was 15 years old he left the daily life to concentrate and communicate with his creator. As he was 20 years old he went completely into the abstinence by moving to the mountains. He meditated every day to understand god through the philosophical understanding of the existence of the truth. Meanwhile he was disturbed by the evil ghost, which wanted to stop him from his way. This fight between bad and good is the main aspect of the Zoroastrian doctrine. After ten years as he was thirty years old he went back to the city. He was not welcome in the city. The Mithra priests were skeptical because of his revolutionist way and the doctrine of monotheism. A long time he had just one follower of the new religion of Zoroastrian. After years of hard work he could convince King Vishtaspa in east Bacria (todays Afganistan) of his doctrine. After long discussions with Vishtaspa about philosophy and the new doctrine Vishtaspa started his fight against the lie and the bad and for the truth and the good. This is the time where the Zoroastrian Religion started to spread all over Iran (which was much bigger tha nowadays). The prophet Zoroaster spread the word for 47 years and died in age of 77. The Zoroastrian Doctrine was the first monotheism religion of humanity. It influenced the Judaism in it's today's version, Christianity and Islam. e.g. The idea of Paradise and Hell comes from Zoroastrians. Paradise is derived from the Persian word 'Pardis'. Zoroastrian at a glance: Monotheism: Zarahustra (or Zoroaster) accepts 'Ahura Mazda' as the only god and declined all other gods from the Mithraism inclusive Mithra herself. Many other Polytheistic Religions from that time tried to resist the Monotheism. Understanding the role of God You have to distinguish the role of God in Zoroastrian from Judaism, Christianily and Islam. Zoroastirasm which is an old Arian religion has a different view. Ahura Mazda is not like the jewish Jahwe, whom you have to be scared of as an believer nor is Ahura Mazda the Jevoha from Christianity, where you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins since your day of birth, nor is Ahura Mazda Allah, who rules strict and almighty and Allah's own will is the main point of everything in someone’s life. Ahura Mazda has a different picture. It represents the truth and wisdom, who reveals to someone through good thoughts, good words and good deeds. Ahura Mazda is the Good and creator of this world and everything which is Good. A Zoroastrian communicate with Ahura Mazda like with a wise friend, who reminds him of the right way in someone's life. Good and Evil The world is a place of a battle between the two counteractive powers of Good and Evil, which are represented by the good ghost "Spenda Mainyu" and the ghost of Evil "Angro Mainyu". But these 'ghosts' are not a living thing but they have be understood as virtue and burden in someone. Everyone should believe the final victory of Good against the Evil and should work hard in his/her life to choose the Good way and resist the Evil. This dualism is typical for Zoroastrians and continues in every aspect of the Zoroastrians philosophy. Goal 3700 years ago It was a radical move to change the whole Polytheistic world into the Monotheism. The highest goal of Zoroastrism is the final victory of Good against the Evil, which might first seem to be impossible. Zarahutra lived in a time of oppression and corruption, in a time of exploiting and lies. Mainly 'Lies' are the main reason for the destruction of the society. The Mithra Priests had the people with lies and superstitions under control. They exploited the peasants and stopped the productive advancement of the country. Zarahustra believed in the truth as the only way to God and the only way which bring the humanity to the happiness and advancement. For this reason the righteousness is main virtue in this religion. The prophet and his followers try to change the world and revivel it through righteousness and truth ness. He tries to create a world, where people don't lie and don’t betray each other; to create a world where everyone improves the evolution of humanity. For this reason it is understandable to see the first Persian dynasty the Achamenids reached a golden age and glory in humanity's civilization (King Cyrus who fought the Babylonians and released all slaves and gave back the freedom to the Jews and rebuilt their temple. From that time everyone could believe even in any god they have wished to praise. Tolerance was the key!) I have few more topics like ‘everyone's responsibility’, ‘Ethics’ and ‘Paradise and Hell’. If you are interested in them, I am glad to explain them to you. If you still have questions about why we don't (can't) intermarry or why we are vanishing or any kind of questions, I am glad to answer your questions. Houman

Sep 30, 2003, 08:14 AM	#21
aneeshm Deity Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Pune, Maharashtra, India Posts: 6,237	No , their roots are from Mesopotamia(I think , not at all sure) . Their marriage rituals may be a problem to the community , though .

Sep 30, 2003, 08:29 AM	#22
Tathlum Gallowglacht Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Deise Posts: 580	I'm pretty sure Aheru Mazda at least started in India. Don't know where the Zoroastrian faith itself comes from, but Mesopotamia certainly doesn't sound unfeasable.

Jul 17, 2004, 12:25 AM	#33
Archer 007 Rebirth Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Empire State of the South Posts: 9,472	Houman, nice post!

Jul 17, 2004, 12:29 AM	#34
zjl56 Emperor Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,126	This religion seems to have had major influences in the Middle East. I know that Judaism and Zoroastrism have alot in common. I have heard some things about this religion and it seems like it goes along with alot of teachings that are taught in Christianity and Judaism. I have even heard some speculation as to such that the three wise men who visited Jesus at his birth were Zoroastrism.

Jul 17, 2004, 12:54 AM	#35
Vietcong Deity Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ho Chi Mhin City, Vietnam Posts: 2,564	the odds are thay whear zoroasteriansp, if not that some trible religon from arabia (ther is evadence to saport them not comeing from persia, but from places suchs as bablyon, or arabia) it started out in iran, but zoroaster was a out cast, he flad to a kingdom thats in afghanistan whear he found a home and falowers. ther it spred (i think from what i read a while back) the first monothistest religon?? are u sure, it whold have been about the year 1600-600 (i read ther is unseratanty about is acaly birth, to be u can even say 3000-600 bc). but what about aktin(spelling) the father of king tut, he founded a sect of egyption relgion with one god (the sun god), tho it never realy coght on __________________ "WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH" The party is all knowing, and allways liveing!! sorry for my bad spelling, i am autistick(spelling :P) its a disablity and i have probs with spelling.. Last edited by Vietcong; Jul 17, 2004 at 12:58 AM.*

Jul 17, 2004, 01:03 AM	#36
Archer 007 Rebirth Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Empire State of the South Posts: 9,472	Vietcong, I think your right about Tut's dad. IIRC, the name of the diety was Anon.

Jul 17, 2004, 01:12 AM	#37
The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Not on your side Posts: 27,800	Avestan, the language of the Zoroastrian canon, is East Iranian. Should be a pretty good clue to where Zarathustra came from. __________________ Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else? CivIII stuff: Hexette (16x16 World Map), The Classic Maya Scenario, Resource gfx, Other gfx, ACW C3C I won't, under any circumstances, lend Mise a feeling.

Jul 17, 2004, 01:17 AM	#38
Perfection The sun is puking on me. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Covered in solar vomit Posts: 39,891 Images: 30	Zoroastrism is good and all but needs a little bit more... That's why I propose Zorroastrism! It's like regular Zoroastrism except with Zorro! If Zorro won't entice more followers then I don't anything else would! Blasphemy, you ask? Well, just think of this, it's better than scientology! Now tell me that this isn't a good idea! Zorroastrism will carry over the spiritual philosophy of Zoroastrism and add an awesome spokesman! __________________ We are star spew -Carlos Esagan Make your area in MountCFC - Download My Sim City 2000 Cities! - Don't like me? Click here to put me on ignore! Astronomy Picture Thread - Civ 4 Idea: Giant Death Robots - Watch me KO creationism DO YOU LIKE FUN? JOIN FIFTYCHAT

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