C3C - Government Breakdown

[Tavis]

Civilization III: Conquests Government Breakdown

Type C/U T/C/M WR DL MPL C/W Hurry WW Special
Feudalism 3 5/2/1 2 2 3 Prob. Force Low Req. Maint
Fascism 1 4/7/10 4 2 4 Nuis. Force None Xeno/Resettle
Republic 2 1/3/4 2 1 0 Nuis. Paid Low Maint/TradeBonus
Democracy 1 0/0/0 3 1 0 Min. Paid High Maint/TradeBonus
Communism 1 6/6/6 2 2 4 Comm. Force None Req. Maint
Monarchy 1 2/4/8 2 2 3 Prob. Paid None Req. Maint
Despotism 1 4/4/4 2 2 2 Ramp. Force None Maint/TilePenalty




C/U = Cost per Unit
T/C/M = Town/City/Metropolis
WR = Worker Rate
DL = Draft Limit
MPL = Military Police Limit
C/W = Corruption & Waste
Min = Minimal
Nuis = Nuisance
Prob = Problematic
Comm = Communal
Ramp = Rampant
Hurry = Hurrying Production Method
WW = War Weariness
Special = Special Attributes
Req. Maint/Maint = Must pay city improvement maintenance
TradeBonus = Standard Trade Bonus
TilePenalty = Standard Tile Penalty
Xenophobic = No culture growth in cities w/o 50%+ nation population
Resettle = Forced Resettlement, switching to gov't causes lose of population 1 in town, 2 in city, 3 in metropolis

Hope this helps clear up the debate!

Jesse Smith
Firaxis Games
Producer, C3C

(Edited: Added the table image for easy viewing. I'm leaving Jesse's original data intact just in case I make a mistake with the table. --TF)

[Paalikles]

Thanks a lot. Great to see such details.

Looks like it will be more difficult to choose one's government now
The xenophobic trait of government is definetly an addition to keep an eye on....

*Paalikles heads off to do some planning and scheeming*

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Feudalism 3 5/2/1 2 2 3 Prob. Force Low Req. Maint
Fascism 1 4/7/10 4 2 4 Nuis. Force None Xeno/Resettle

Wasn't the big deal that Feudalism requires no maintenance? With maintenance required, it is inferior to Monarchy on all counts...

And isn't Fascism overpowered with no maintenance, and a huge free unit support?

I was under the impression it would be the other way around.

[Tavis]

No maintenance with Feudalism had a very negative side effect - the AI wouldn't switch from it!! This is the must have gov't for players at the equator.

Fascism's no maintanence and free unit support is countered by the pop hit when switching to it and the inability to generate culture in new cities. If you expand to quickly your cities will revolt back to their original owner.

[Al Zan]

thank for the info!

[Paalikles]

Here is Jesse's work, inserted into Excel:

Spreadsheet compatible with win95 and newer

Edit: Hm...what did go wrong here....will try to fix the link
Edit 2: oops forgot to make a zip file. It should work now
Edit 3: Works perfectly

TF is a showoff

[Thunderfall]

TF is a showoff

hehe... image is more convenient than excel.

(table image added to the first post instead).

[MarineCorps]

Fascism for me. The resettle is a bad thing however, could throw a wrench in my multi point blitz attack with a huge miltary plan.

[toh6wy]

Feudalism seems to be only good for civs surrounded by poor terrain - deserts, tundra, and mountains especially, but also hills, jungle, probably marshes, and sometimes forests - and then only during the first two eras. The only redeeming quality of Feudalism (as compared to Monarchy) is that you get 3 extra free units per town, and the poor terrain keeps most towns from becoming cities. But when you research Communism, Feudalism essentially becomes obsolete, as Communism is better or equal in every way - unless your empire is really small and centered around your capital, in which case the corruption/waste of Feudalism would be less than Communism's communal corruption/waste.

[DAKjungF]

Wasn't it also that with fascism, you don't create any production? It was written on a page in this forum, that you had to rush everything you wanted to produce... -I think.

[SirPleb]

Originally posted by Tavis
Civilization III: Conquests Government Breakdown

Thanks very much for the info Jesse!

And here comes the inevitable request for more
Could you tell us which Civs will get the commerce bonus? I.e. the bonus which previously applied to Republic and Democracy - is it still the same for the previous governments, and does it apply to either of the new governments?

Also, is there a difference between "req. maint" and "maint"? Not sure if I'm missing something, they seem the same to me so far since Monarchy is "req. maint" and Republic is "maint"

[Grey Fox]

Seems like Feodalism will only be good when you have a lot of towns, and I kinda hoped it would have communal corruption. It's practically all the bad things from Monarchy and Republic combined

Although I can see it's usefulness.

[patronr383]

thanks for the info tavis. there has been quite a bit of discussion in my thread. i think this clears up the fog quite a bit.

[Roundman]

Originally posted by DAKjungF
Wasn't it also that with fascism, you don't create any production? It was written on a page in this forum, that you had to rush everything you wanted to produce... -I think.

No, that was a misinterpretation of a screenshot. What it meant was that Fascism was forced labor for rush jobs, not for all production.

[Intruder13]

Fascism looks like a war machine powerhouse, and it looks like the best peace government too especially if you believe in peace through strength! :soldier: Everything looks great except for feudalism; I don’t know how you could effectively use that one...

[SuperBeaverInc.]

Personally I think Fascism is a little powerful. So many free units and corruption the same as Republic, and no WW. Altough the loss of population is pretty bad.

[Tavis]

Maint. and Req. Maint are the same

Democracy and Republic are the only ones that get the Trade (Commerce) Bonus in the Epic Game

I look forward to reading your feedback once you have had some play time! We will definitely review suggestions for any future adjustments.

[player1 fanatic]

That Fascism looks too strong.

Due to high free unit support and no buildings maintaince, it could be good as peace govenement for civs with big standing army. Maybe even better then Rep. & Dem. in some cases.

Lose of pop due to change of goverment is not to serious (if cities were already maxed out before), and starving enemy cities to pop of 1 and adding one of your workers will give you 50% pop in conquered cities.


On the other hand, Feudalism got the shaft considering that it has both 3gp/per unit cost, war warriness and no usablity if you have more cities at size larger then 6.

Practicly it's only useful if 90% of your cities are up to size 6 (and no wars planned).
Too many penalties and very little bonuses (in fact just one: 5 free units in town).

[Civrules]

Originally posted by Intruder13
Fascism looks like a war machine powerhouse, and it looks like the best peace government too especially if you believe in peace through strength! :soldier: Everything looks great except for feudalism; I don’t know how you could effectively use that one...

Oh, it is a great government, very useful! Very nicely thought out.

[Gogf]

You forgot to say that Communism has an espionage bonus.