hg1: Rise of Egypt (Vanilla 1.29), Emperor

[homeyg]

This is ultimate training day game. Egypt under your control has chosen a nice looking spot and is ready to settle down. The goal of this TDG is to ease players stuck at Monarch into Emperor teaching them proper worker management, proper city management, proper trading tecniques, and so on. I have chosen the following settings to suit the purposes of this TDG. Settings: pangea 60% water for fast AI tech pace and trading, raging barbarians to disrupt anyone's expansion, map size- large for lots of powerful AIs, etc. Will you be able to tackle this challenge (with minimal help)?

I have 5 slots for people struggling with Emperor/Monarch, however, right now the roster is full. I will be one of the trainers and I'm hoping to have at least one more.

Trainers: Still looking for another trainer to help out!!
Trainees: dze27, Merlin, bigchief, SesnOfWthr, and King Alexander (roster full)

You guys know the drill; Trainees play and Trainers give tips and advice and try to correct whatever they are doing wrong.

Here is a screenie of the start:



And finally:the save.

[dze27]

Hi, I'd like to sign up as a trainee. I've won 2 out of my last 3 games on Monarch (currently in a close struggle in the Modern Age that could go either way) and feel reasonably comfortable at that level, but I would like to keep improving. I'm more of a warmonger than a builder, but I try to pay attention to building too.

I probably need to improve my strategies for keeping up in tech at the higher levels. Also, I feel my use of workers could be better, especially in the early game when it matters. One other thing I could use some help in is really working the MPPs, MAs and ROPs. I tend to go it alone a bit too much because I don't want to get drawn into unnecessary wars, but I realize this might be a necessary evil at times.

[homeyg]

Okay, I'll sign you up. (I thought this thread died without a single post! Guess I was wrong)

[Merlin]

I might like to play also. I do have beaten deity several times so don't really need the training. But I haven't played a succession game before, so I'd need the training there. I have read these forums and followed several succession games though.

Oh, forgot to say, that I don't own PTW or C3C so Vanilla is good for me...

[homeyg]

So that's two trainees (to tell you the truth, Merlin, I've never done a SG either).

[bigchief]

I'd like to play as a trainee. I usually play on Monarch (or Regent, if I want to have a fun game). I have played Emperor a few times. I think I am 2 for 3 on emperor games, though I don't enjoy them as much. I play more of a peaceful/builder type game, and I have trouble with the higher levels because I am not aggressive enough. I haven't ever played a SG, but I have the time for it, and it might help me with my GOTM scores.

[homeyg]

Okay, I'm going to wait for maybe two more people, and then we'll get going. It would also be great if I could get another trainer!

[Gogf]

I would possibly be a trainer, but I only play on C3C now, sorry.

[SesnOfWthr]

Well, I'm having some difficulties with emperor ATM, although I believe I finally have one going that I can win.

At any rate, I'd like to join and see what you guys can teach me.

@gogf -- did you figure out your patch situation?

[King Alexander]

Hi! Homeyg, you said that this game's gonna be at Monarch/Emperor. I haven't tried enough in either level but I'm willing to learn from the "veterans". I'd like to join.
EDIT: I've never played a SG, and I think I'll learn a lot.

[homeyg]

Originally posted by King Alexander
Hi! Homeyg, you said that this game's gonna be at Monarch/Emperor. I haven't tried enough in either level but I'm willing to learn from the "veterans". I'd like to join.
EDIT: I've never played a SG, and I think I'll learn a lot.

I wouldn't call myself a 'veteran' (well, maybe, I have been playing the game since it came out gradually moving up the ladder), however, I have beaten Emperor a number of times.

Edit: I do believe that we will learn alot from this experience.

Edit2: Roster's full, guys! It would be great though if I could get at least 1 more trainer.

[homeyg]

Before we go, there are some rules we will be following to help you with the higher difficulties.

1. No building the Great Library. This is a very bad habit if you always incorporate it into your strategy because it destroys your ability to trade techs early on. All other wonders are exceptable, however, including TOE. I might add that trading is the key to keeping up and even passing the AI tech wise on Emperor and that it is not nessecary to use the 0% science gambit. I don't use it on Emperor because I don't think you need it to keep up.

2. No automating workers. Another goal of this TDG is to teach you proper worker management. Also, no Governors, again we are trying to teach you proper worker and city management.

Thats all the rules, I think.

The format this game will be played will be is (same format used in GK2: The Training Day Experiment):

* pre-turn strategizing/suggestions
* a trainee will take his turn
* a trainer will shadow the turn(play the same turn)
* trainee will post a turn log plus ideas he has & plans for the future
* trainer will chime in with a critique of his turn(changes he could have made, suggestions for next time, ideas for the next player, ect)
* then we go on to discuss the next turn. Rinse and repeat.

Lurkers, feel free to post your own tips and advice!

Let the game begin!! I will post the turn roster soon. We need to discuss the first turn, though.

[King Alexander]

Hi again. homeyg I have a question: Are we allowed to save/reload between turns (in case of a corrupt save) or when the "enemy" demands sth-we deny-he declares(or when he declares without a warning?)
Of course, you'll inform us for specific restrictions, but I wanted to be sure.
EDIT: It seems we posted at the same time, sorry!!!

[SesnOfWthr]

King -- Just my opinion, but:

I would think if you're ready to refuse a demand, you'd better be ready to war with the civ in question.

If a civ declares without warning, well that's part of the game, right?

Also, do you have a lot of corrupt saves? Not sure i understand this.


EDIT: As for first moves, I would probably suggest moving worker 1 sw to BG. Since it's on a river, that seems to be the strongest tile. If I were playing it, I would move settler 1 ne to try to make it coastal, depending on what is seen when the worker moves. The western body of water looks like it could be a small lake, not sure about the eastern.

[King Alexander]

Originally posted by SesnOfWthr
Also, do you have a lot of corrupt saves? Not sure i understand this.

Not really: just in case anything happens.

My thoughs for the first moves: I agree with SesnOfWthr: I'd probably move the settler from the starting position.
I'm not sure if the nw tile is a lake but the ne tile seems to be coastal. Anyway, I'd take a gamble to move the settler into nw, because when the city we'll expand I'd want more grassland in my terittory with lesser desert tiles. Correct me if am wrong: crossing the river gives the defender greater defence bonus, I'd want the capital to have good resistance.
I'd move the worker on the BG, right left of the settler(as we see him, or do I see it from the wrong position? This is my first SG as you know.)
EDIT:I'd like to know what research steps you'd suggest to follow and what improvements we'll built first. Also, would it be wise to built walls early, because of the barbarians?

[dze27]

Game rules sound good to me. I never go for the GL anyway and I've stopped automating workers (OK, except for a few on Jungle- or Pollution-clearing detail).

We start with Masonry & Ceremonial Burial. We could start on Pottery first to get a Settler factory going. Or maybe take advantage of being religious and research Mysticism -> Polytheism and try to use that to trade techs. Or maybe just go Bronze Working -> Iron Working and try an early invasion? That might be rough on Emperor though. I don't actually pay much attention to tech order at the start (other than usually going for Pottery first) since the trading goes fast and furious and you often end up getting extra techs with goody huts.

Walls are cheap, only the cost of one spearman with the effect of raising defense by 50%, so I would say yes to a few, especially on our borders. Especially with low (can't remember the exact number) bonus against barbs.

First move suggestions by others sound fine.

Any thoughts on triggering our GA, which we could get really early in the game with the War Chariot? I would probably want to hold off on this for a while.

Also, how many game turns are we taking per turn? 10?

[homeyg]

Alexander, and everybody else: no reloading, what so ever. It doesn't matter what happens. Nobody learns from reloading. Just to warn, there are alot of AI demands on Emperor and just like SesnOfWthr said, you shouldn't deny them unless you are prepared to fight a war.

We (not including me, of course) will be taking 10 turns for each person's round. You have 24 hours to pick up the save (notify us you have it by posting 'got it' or something like that) and 48 hours to play the save and post your turn log (when it's your turn). If you don't reply within the 24 hour period, you will be skipped and whoever's next in the roster will play your turn. If you guys want me to PM you telling you when you're 'on deck', let me know.

The turn roster (I picked randomly):
1. dze27
2. King Alexander
3. bigchief
4. Merlin
5. SesnOfWthr

dze27, you're lead off! Play your turn and then post your turn log and the save for the next player to play. We will be following the format that I posted in my previous post above. Good luck!

[bigchief]

Since the roster hasn't been posted, I'm not sure if I'm in, or not, but if I am, then I would say move the worker SW to the BG, and see what is revealed. I would say we take the Mysticism-Polytheism route. We could trade for most of the other techs, and go straight to Monarchy. Try not to build and use the War Chariot, unless absolutely necessary. Build the Hanging Gardens, and then use Sistine to trigger the golden age at a good time.

As far as moving the settler, my style would be to move him only if it will help us produce more shields. I would rather have the Capital be as much of a production powerhouse as possible. I would prefer to move the settler away from the coast, and build the second city on the coast.

It's hard to tell what that water is to the north, but if it is coastal, it looks like we will either have a choke point or we will have our backs to the sea, so we should be safe on one side anyway.

That's my thoughts on the opening moves. The rules sound fine. I'm ready to go, if I'm in.

Edit: I guess I'm in. We posted at the same time.

[homeyg]

bigchief, we posted at the same time, sorry. Look above; I posted the roster. You're in.

[dze27]

Got it.