Punishment Strategy

As opposed to the previous Civs, you cannot or should not aim at occupying all cities on the planet; corruption and reconstructing the infrastructure makes it unworthy. However, as the winner is always relative to the other participants, dispatching smaller "punishment expeditions" do work if you are about to maim, hinder and set back an opposing civilization. This includes:

- destroying their roads to resources;
- burning down their city improvements;
- killing population;
- stopping their shipping to prevent expansion.

All the above can be done by a generally isolationist state, by sending out contingents of 2-3 ships, one transporting artillery pieces and defenders (Artillyery and Infantry is the best choice) and the rest escorting the transport.

Upon arrival, you unload the saboteurs onto a hill or mountain (to provide better defense and a prolonged stay) near the target area, which should be a resource site, a traffic node or some large cities. If llucky, your artillery can fire at 3-4 targets of your choice. You can take a worker too, he will build a fortress if needed. Then you start pounding the improvements, then the cities, and any approaching enemy unit. If you have a faster unit at hand, you can even capture workers; transport them home with the vessel if you want.

Meanwhile, the gunships will visit some coastal cities and bombard; they can also kill transport vessels to do more economic damage.

I have tried this strategy against large and distant empires. Although I cannot be sure about the economic balance, I guess the vast damage was worth the 2 Infantry and 2 Artillery: they "leveled" 2 cities of size 11, blocked their Iron source and defended against countless attacking units.

As I did not need their cities, that was more than enough to cripple a rival and ensure my triumph. Did anyone try things like that?

What level of AI did you do this agains? Was it the lowest level (Chieftan)? For all I know tha AI is very fond of revenge for such tactics.

ironfang

Yes. It was Regent, and they did try to be mean, even tried to launch a beach landing, but as I mentioned, I play isolationist, and the incoming ships were held up and sunk. They're on a separate continent, and mine is blockaded tightly.

Fortified Infantry on a mountain, especially in a fortress, is exceptionally hard to beat, and as they are guarding the artillery, I can hit whatever I want. Well, until bombers arrive, I think...

I'd like to read about more punishment/diversion tactics/strategies, with few units, low budget, but high damage, large setback, blood, sweat and tears on the other side. Cruise missiles are a bit too expensive for that, and appear too late.

von Brumi:

Welcome to the CivFanatics forums. I hope that you stay a spell and continue to be involved with posting srategies and ideas.

Your plan sounds like a fun one, and one that can certainly hobble an opponent a great deal. A few thoughts, however:

1. Putting forth an effort such as this would likely be best used if you and one other civ were neck-and-neck in terms of power and advancement while the rest of the world civs are non-issues. It may give you that added boost to take a lead somewhere and hold it. However, if there are more civs out there that could pose a threat, this seems like a difficult strategy to perform on 2 or more fronts.

2. War weariness is bound to be an issue. Extended campaigns like you mention will wear on most government types and cause unhappiness and production loss. It can work if you plan to stay in a militant government and win the game by conquest, but you run the risk of having other civs dust you in terms of technology while in a protracted bombardment campaigns.

In my VAST experience of about a week and a half , I've found it better to set up an attack to do the most damage in the shortest amount of turns. I'd rather take a tech lead, be the first to something like cavalry, then load a bunch in transports and position them where I can strike quickly. Then, when war is declared (better if you can make them declare on you), strike at 2-4 (or even more) cities and take them in a single turn. Either raze them or try to keep them - that always depends. Then I try to get peace back right away. Even if you give a city back to keep the peace, the damage from actually removing a few cities can be devastating - especially if they are on the civ's main continent. This can work early with swordmen or knights (or various unique units) or later if you can be first to get tanks.

In this way, I hope that weariness is minimal and I can get back to the business of furthering a tech lead before a different civ becomes a problem.

Yes, you're right about weariness; it is a problem, but most of the time there is only one Civ that poses a real future threat, and they also suffer from war discontent. Thus, I can wait for their armies to come one day; or I can assemble a force and invade their country (long-long fight); or I can do what you suggested. Problem is that if I take a few cities on the other side of the globe, it's unlikely I can hold against a full scale attack - which is usually going to come.

Razing cities... soooo evil! Andf it does not solve the resource blockade: they can reclaim their ore with a single settler fabricating a microvillage next to it.

Bah! Playing on Regent level on a large map I went to war as soon as the game began. I started cranking out warriors, then spearmen and I took the Germans out completely. I then started attacking the English. The war raged on while I changed to a Monarchy. The war raged on as I build Knights, then Cavalry then Infantry. I allied with America and then the Indians and the Japanese declared war on me. We're talking about a war that has raged from 4000 BC until 1700 AD at the time of this writing. Right now the Indians are off of my super continent and so are the Japanese. The Germans and the English are DEAD. I control somewhere around 200 cities and am the envy of the world. I tried changing to Democracy but the war weariness is devastating when I switch governments. I'm immediately plunged back into Anarchy if I try it. The only CIVs left are the Romans, who are about my level, the Americans, who are my allies, and the Persians. My army is bigger than all of them. I'm just crushing everyone. My allies, the Americans, have been great through it all. Pretty soon I'll crush them too!

--Avenger

Of course, you can play for score or you can play for fun, for beauty and history modeling.

Originally posted by von Brumi
Of course, you can play for score or you can play for fun, for beauty and history modeling.

Click to expand...

Well said.

Basically, the term "it depends" creeps in to just about all of these discussions. One reason that a game such as this is so rich with options and so replayable.

von Brumi: In the example where you mention the rival civ counter-attacking full scale - it's true that in this case they likely WOULD be able to get back their resources. But, hey, nothing says you can't set up shop on a nearby mountain or right on the resource and defend it like in your first example. And if you are able to keep a city or two and keep it from revolting back, then the enemy would have to declare war on you to take it back. In the mean time, you'd have a base where your troops can heal, and you can build walls and the like to help your efforts. War weariness is not as bad nor strikes as early if the OTHER civ declares the war. And if it looks like you may lose the battle and the city - you could always sell improvements and then offer it to a 3rd civ as a gift or for some cash. This can actually be kind of funny - especially if the civ you sell it to has a treaty with the original one. Ah, the options are endless.

Avenger: As I wrote, you can stay in a war with a militant government for quite a good long while without any huge adverse effects of weariness. I've done this with a despotism all the way to the A.D.'s on Regent level. Must have used up several hundred citizens in the mass building and training of troops. Mwahahaha.

I can be a fun way to play, but a bit one-dimensional at times and eventually I do feel like doing some research or producing some culture.

And if it looks like you may lose the battle and the city - you could always sell improvements and then offer it to a 3rd civ as a gift or for some cash.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, how do you sell _improvements_ to another civ? you cannot wrap a temple and ship it ready-made. So what should this be? did I miss something?

What I meant was sell improvements for cash and then sell the ENTIRE CITY to a 3rd civ. I did this in a game where I took some cities from the Americans and later sold Atlanta to the Iriquois. This city ended up being a buffer between myself and the Americans, and I eventually watched them go to war while I retooled.

now that's fine! selling out the city for cash.

Has anyone tried diversion by helicopter-carried troops? What can and what should I pack into a chopper?

You can carry any foot soldier unit in a helicopter. The copters have a range of only 4 though, and you cant put them on carriers. If im punishing someone, i will usually just first blockade them to piss them off, let their ships burn to my delight, and bombard their shores. Next, i will transport troops and raze their cities, EVERY LAST ONE:flamedevi


:tank: :tank: :tank: Perhaps there is a less diplomatic approach.

To go a step further on cities sales you can move your troops out of them when you sell them and sign a right of passage treaty leaving your troops there to warranty their "neutrality" in a posible full scale attack of that criminal civ...

As you all know, when you give up a city they go with a "Troops not included" tag. If you give them up to easily, they nasty civ will take them back.

I like your idea von Brumi. Iwill keep it in mind, but will not be using it in my current game unless I happen to go to war as it would kill my empire to do such a ting. My empire is right now set to 100% science and relies on the gold gained by trading all the advances that I get before everyone else. Gaining 290+gold a turn with 100% science is a sweet sight. I haven't built a city in ages but keep getting culture city victories

I think the best would be bombarding the cities until size 1, and then take the city, sell the improvements, and sell it back. The computer will pay loads for it, but the city will be disabled for a very long time. It probably will not be any help to their cash flow or science rate, so I might try this one tonight. Or maybe even nuking the city right before taking it, there would be pollution by the city too, even more bother for the computer

:tank: :tank: :tank: Perhaps there is a less diplomatic approach.

Something like this can be very useful in situations where the enemy has a resource and you don't. I didn't realize until too late that I did not possess aluminum, and lost a space race, but I think I could have forestalled it had I gotten the enemy embroiled in a conflict at a few key points...utilizing them to crush resistance, and at times, run my offense through their cities to raze them (as it was, I was too late...the freaking English!).

Even diplomatic players need this in their arsenal.

WOW you guys got interesting strategies over there. Well, this is what I like to do.
Usually I will start ou the game in an isolation because it gives me a chance to discover stuff quickly and get ahead of everyone.
If I meet someone I try to stay in peace, esp if they got the luxuries and resources I need. Yet I try to keep the army strong and fortif my units in the cities (at least 2 to 3) just in case they get too cocky. Anyway, in regard to capturing or razing cities, it really depends on a situation. If your are fighting over seas, which I usually am, I take the first city for strategic purposes, so that I can start basing my units there and they can heal faster inside a city. I usually bring a few defensive units with me too so they can protect the city. However, I raza most cities, because I don't want to constantly run the risk of losing them. I like to destroy and move on. As far as the effect of razing a city, who cares!? It may ruin your rep a bit, but if you are at war your rep is pretty bad already. If someone wants to declare a war on you, too bad for them, because if you survive your first war by razing cities, then you are powerul enough to sustain a second one. AI seems to be smart in this game, and even if your rep sucks, then AI would be smart enough not to declare a war on you in the fear of losing it!

What I would do is start with small scale bombardment from naval units (Iconclads/Frigates/Destroyers). Cities start producing tanks and head for the frontline. Push back the enemy units and hold the line.

Start second pharase of heavy bombardment (Battleships, carriers and bombers). Tanks beeline to a city and raze it. The culture territory will shrink and troops stay outside it to heal and pillage surrounding improvements. Then beeline to the next city raze it and pillage everything. Repeat the process until the civ wants peace.

Now I set about 15 gold/ turn (war reparations) for the peace treaty, more if possible. That way he/she pays for the peace until war is declared again. Withdraw troops from his/her territory and pillage all remaining improvements in the netural territory. That way it will take a long time for the civ to rebuild all the improvements and the cities ensuring that he/she will never bother you again.

So , Reagent , huge map, pangea, only 8 civs ... lots of space for everyone.

I'm egypt and with a fast but conventionally grown empire core with many very old temples in in the lead culture wise and slightly tech wise. The Indians are the closest competition and also my neigbours.

I make the mistake of letting them get a whole load of settle through me an crappy little coastal and tundra towns are sewn inside my empire, sometimwe stealing colonies of resources. The cabinet is assmeble... goal : kick the indians back to their natural borders while staying a democra and keeping the science and city improvememts at the max. After a few short wars which claimed a city or two back but cost too much in lost developement ( The Romans started catching up with both of us.) I hit on the following. Every other time I ask his units to leave my territory he decalres war, so I'm obviously going to have to close the border by force if I ever want to have war to my schedule. Result 1 strip of 12 forts, next to each other along the whole border. Each fort has railroad and 2 infantry, + 1 atrillery. There are a few cavalry scattered around as well. 1 square is left "unforted". This is grassland and the killing zone, and lies 2 tiles deep into my terriroty down a forted corridor.

So , get a peace , build up artilery stocks and a few more cavalry. Open the one gap. First he ours through workers as his crappy little isolate townsa re in need of population and terrain work. I let a few through them at the first sign of a military escaot I ask them to leave. He declares war. I steal all of the workers and atriller the lone unit. He mobilised, along with greek allies and throws huge stacks of cavalty , riflemen, war elephants and all his old obselete units at me. I simply have 20 + artillery running up and down the ralroaded fort strip ,reducing all untis in range to 1 hit point, then elite cavalry to pick off a few units from the bigger stacks hunting for great leaders. occassionaly a stack would get to attack with a few units not down to 1 hp , but their eithr hit a fort with fortified infantry or have to walk 2 tiles down the corridor of death. I can keep this up for ever , I'm simply not loosing any resources, and _he declared war_ , so war weariness is minimal for the first 5 turns or so. After 5 turns hes had enough losses to listen to diplomacy and we sign a peace deal with a little gold for me. He spends the next few turns trying to rebuild to his former military strength, and building the lost workers. After 5 - 7 turns I "open the border" let the workers in , close the border , ask the workers to leave , he decalres war and we do it all again. I never have to rebuild my military , and hge always does. I can just carry on my merry way as a peaceloving cultural diplomatic science broking democracy to the rest of the world and keep my nearest rival in a perpetual state of military rebuild. Every war I have a shock force of 4 artillery , 1 infantry and 2 cavalry very close to the next tundra city in my borders and the turn he decalres war it falls. 10 iterations later the whole world has tanks and railroads exept india, thay are the most backwards tech , I have trade embargoes against them with ecery other civ and they are STILL throwing war elephants aginast my dug in mech inf.

So ... I won this game... ´right ?

Ummm... no oops. Romans build UN and they aparrently where even more loved than I was.

BIG lesson there for an old Civ II player.

Selling cities to rival civs is not as easy as you all make it out to be. Perhaps the AI is jsut ******ed on the easier difficulties but i find that the AI is pretty apt at determining a cities value. I've attempted to GIVE cities away for the express purpose of starting wars between civs yet the advisor says theyll never accept this deal even if i offer it as a gift. The AI is much improved from civ2, it will refuse cities that appear to be near one of their friends or have belonged to their friends in the past. The AI also sneak attacks using RoPs, alas Athens is no more. Damned Japanese... nothing changes...