This is great. Playing CIV takes a lot of time and these few changes save hours of clicking through leader screens. Love it!
First Impressions
- Thread starter rastak
- Start date
This is great. Playing CIV takes a lot of time and these few changes save hours of clicking through leader screens. Love it!
Chronicles
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2009
- Messages
- 48
Bit of a trivial question, but does liberating previously defeated civs make any sense now?
This was on King, and in Vanilla I typically annihilate Emperor games with no prob. Back to the drawing board.
Good to know. I find EMP similar, and look to immortal as my personal challenge level depending on start conditions. I think I'll try to play back a level as well and just enjoy the ride. Now if only the download would finish.
DysprosiumJudas
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2010
- Messages
- 18
Just got done with a 5 1/2 session. I haven't been this lost in the game since when I first started!
Overall, the expansion is better than I'd hoped it would be. Here's some highlights:
-Songhai UA is now special upgrade on all units that make them stronger when embarked as well as an upgrade on all units that removes penalty for attacking over river. They still have the pillage bit too. Ottomans UA is now if you kill a naval unit with one of your melee navy units, you get an exact copy of that naval unit as your own. They still have the 1/3 naval unit upkeep bit. Siam now gets bonus faith from CSes as well, and like everyone knows England gets the extra spy.
-OMG is the AI miles better! They're still not perfect and if you have a lot of impassable terrain near your cities (like lakes and mountains) then they will screw up massively but other than that they will definitely keep you on your toes. Their defense is also a lot better. Usually on King I can take an entire civ with only like a unit or two lost due to laziness but here it took five wars (admittedly, two of those wars weren't very intense at all) for me to take the Ottomans down. What an improvement!
-Combat is much better. The slower pace makes you actually have to think of tactics instead of just "swordsmen in front archers in back" type of stuff. I don't really know what to say here because you kinda just gotta see it for yourself, but it's an improvement for sure.
-Diplomacy makes much more sense now, but people will go from being at war with you to Friendly in a single turn still. There's room for improvement, but it's a big step forward from Civ V vanilla.
-Religion is pretty cool. I actually didn't play around much with religion in my play sessions, but my brother who was in the game with me played the Celts and said there was a lot of tactics and decision making in it, so you have his word on it.
-Espionage is actually remarkably boring. There just isn't as much to do with it as I thought, and what there is to do is mostly just automated and run in the background. It's something you have to be aware of as you play the game, but espionage feels like such a backburner thing that you'll probably forget about it a lot.
-Finally, Austria is so hilariously OP. I'm serious. Just ridiculously OP.
And just for the info: I played up to the end of the Modern Era when you get the WWI units so I don't know anything past there. I didn't get to use much of the WWI units though because I snowballed so hard that the only enemy on my continent (Suleiman) was dead by the time I got the units, and I didn't want to invade Sweden because he was helping me out a lot with luxuries and his UA. I played on Small with Continents.
Overall, the expansion is better than I'd hoped it would be. Here's some highlights:
-Songhai UA is now special upgrade on all units that make them stronger when embarked as well as an upgrade on all units that removes penalty for attacking over river. They still have the pillage bit too. Ottomans UA is now if you kill a naval unit with one of your melee navy units, you get an exact copy of that naval unit as your own. They still have the 1/3 naval unit upkeep bit. Siam now gets bonus faith from CSes as well, and like everyone knows England gets the extra spy.
-OMG is the AI miles better! They're still not perfect and if you have a lot of impassable terrain near your cities (like lakes and mountains) then they will screw up massively but other than that they will definitely keep you on your toes. Their defense is also a lot better. Usually on King I can take an entire civ with only like a unit or two lost due to laziness but here it took five wars (admittedly, two of those wars weren't very intense at all) for me to take the Ottomans down. What an improvement!
-Combat is much better. The slower pace makes you actually have to think of tactics instead of just "swordsmen in front archers in back" type of stuff. I don't really know what to say here because you kinda just gotta see it for yourself, but it's an improvement for sure.
-Diplomacy makes much more sense now, but people will go from being at war with you to Friendly in a single turn still. There's room for improvement, but it's a big step forward from Civ V vanilla.
-Religion is pretty cool. I actually didn't play around much with religion in my play sessions, but my brother who was in the game with me played the Celts and said there was a lot of tactics and decision making in it, so you have his word on it.
-Espionage is actually remarkably boring. There just isn't as much to do with it as I thought, and what there is to do is mostly just automated and run in the background. It's something you have to be aware of as you play the game, but espionage feels like such a backburner thing that you'll probably forget about it a lot.
-Finally, Austria is so hilariously OP. I'm serious. Just ridiculously OP.
And just for the info: I played up to the end of the Modern Era when you get the WWI units so I don't know anything past there. I didn't get to use much of the WWI units though because I snowballed so hard that the only enemy on my continent (Suleiman) was dead by the time I got the units, and I didn't want to invade Sweden because he was helping me out a lot with luxuries and his UA. I played on Small with Continents.
Look, its bad enough that she bought off all the CSes in my game and turned them into production cities. Its even worse that she got pissed off at me that she DOWed 300 years ago. Its a nightmare that she's already in Atomics just as I got to my first Great War Infantry.
DysprosiumJudas
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2010
- Messages
- 18
I was playing her on King and I was like 600 or so victory points above the closest AI. It was dumb. She just snowballs for so cheap and when she snowballs she removes the chance for other people to catch up by eating away the city-states. It's like playing Genghis Khan but you get all you conquests without having to lift a finger.
AI is better at tech, even at Prince they are keeping somewhat pace, now I have not been playing optimally but still an improvement. They also spam more units tyhan before and siege are really weak. Cities just mow people down and fighting Germany with ENDLESS supplies of useful landsknechts actually required significant investment. Still seeing a city 2 shot the most advanced siege unit in the world at full health is really annoying.
Religion is not as nice as I thought, bonuses are ok but its mainly useful for city-states and even there doesn't do much even with papal primacy. Unless you go holy warriors or gain faith buildings faith really has little to do. Just stockpiling 1500plus for a great scientist or two is nice but not al that great.
I do not like espionage at all. Being advanced means Ive faced 10 tech steal attempts just getting from renaissance to Industrial. Add that to mass spies couping and counter-couping, and rigging and city-states are REALLY hard to ally with. A few can be done with spy back-up but randomn quest influence and mass Ai espionage makes it far more of a chore. In vanilla I KNEW I had an ally here, maybe and it takes a lot more effort. RAs are heavily nerfed reliant on BPT and ally BPT.
I also really dislike that free GP increase global GP counter. They're not free now and does it even say that in documentation. Byzantine bonus can be anything I believe. I saw pantheon enhancer and founder at least, so there is a wide selection.
Love the new unit tree matching longswordsman to musketmen really removes dead paths. Between that and ranged and various other tweaks the unit progression feels a lot better.
Overall an improvement, but religion underwhelms and espionage is a chore with mass ai numbers sniping at your resources outweighing advantages, but its still an improvement on CIV IV espionage,
Religion is not as nice as I thought, bonuses are ok but its mainly useful for city-states and even there doesn't do much even with papal primacy. Unless you go holy warriors or gain faith buildings faith really has little to do. Just stockpiling 1500plus for a great scientist or two is nice but not al that great.
I do not like espionage at all. Being advanced means Ive faced 10 tech steal attempts just getting from renaissance to Industrial. Add that to mass spies couping and counter-couping, and rigging and city-states are REALLY hard to ally with. A few can be done with spy back-up but randomn quest influence and mass Ai espionage makes it far more of a chore. In vanilla I KNEW I had an ally here, maybe and it takes a lot more effort. RAs are heavily nerfed reliant on BPT and ally BPT.
I also really dislike that free GP increase global GP counter. They're not free now and does it even say that in documentation. Byzantine bonus can be anything I believe. I saw pantheon enhancer and founder at least, so there is a wide selection.
Love the new unit tree matching longswordsman to musketmen really removes dead paths. Between that and ranged and various other tweaks the unit progression feels a lot better.
Overall an improvement, but religion underwhelms and espionage is a chore with mass ai numbers sniping at your resources outweighing advantages, but its still an improvement on CIV IV espionage,
Yeah I figure having her again on another map where I start out on another isolated continent but with 3 or 4 CSes wouldn't be the happy joyride it was in Vanilla.
Now I'm going to have to rebuild my Renaissance navy (with ironclads!) and watch the western seas between me continent and hers.
I can feel she's getting Manhattan soon. Anytime now.
Can people go into a little more detail on the naval improvements? There were a couple of posts that said the AI got better at using its navy, but nothing really concrete. Can we expect to face a reasonably large fleets? How effectively/intelligently are they used? Has anyone seen the AI perform a reasonably decent amphibious invasion?
DysprosiumJudas
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2010
- Messages
- 18
I haven't played a full naval game, but I have seen an AI take its capital city back with its navy after its land forces got wiped out, and I have seen even a backwards, bottom-list civ running like four naval units at once.
I've had a desperation siege on one of my coastal cities with three units, but it didn't go anywhere and it was that same bottom-list civ just trying to do anything to change its luck.
I have no idea how it plays on the high seas.
Zhahz
PC Gamer
First impression - quite a bit changed. Lotsa new stuff and lotsa tweaks.
I'm enjoying it so far.
Combat AI is a little better so far. Decent use of generals and guarding them. Attempts at withdrawing damaged units. Range attacks before melee. Focused fire.
I'm more of a builder but ended up tyring Attila since the battering ram looked interesting (and seems insane - I'd imagine pro warmongers will love it). Horse archers are pretty nice too.
In liberty republic (production) and collective rule (settlers) swapped places.
Completing tradition now also gives free aquaducts in your first 4 cities (I think this is new).
Piety got some tweaks for faith, including organized religion giving a faith bonus instead of happy.
Commerce got a few tweaks - haven't tried it but it looks a bit more interesting. Completing also allow buying great merch for faith. I haven't done commerce in ages so I'm not sure if protectionism changed (+2 happy per lux - seems powerful enough that I would remember but who knows).
Completing order lets you buy great engineers for faith. Not sure if anything else was tweaked.
Completing autocracy enables purchase of GGs and admirals for faith. Probably some other minor tweaks.
Freedom - artists for faith;
Rationalishm - scientists for faith - which is somewhat amusing
Mud pyramid mosque gives 2 culture and 2 faith for no upkeep. Askia is still 3x pillage/plunder and land units get promotions to make them stronger when embarked.
Burial tomb gives 2 gold and 2 failth with the same capture penalty.
I'm enjoying it so far.
Combat AI is a little better so far. Decent use of generals and guarding them. Attempts at withdrawing damaged units. Range attacks before melee. Focused fire.
I'm more of a builder but ended up tyring Attila since the battering ram looked interesting (and seems insane - I'd imagine pro warmongers will love it). Horse archers are pretty nice too.
In liberty republic (production) and collective rule (settlers) swapped places.
Completing tradition now also gives free aquaducts in your first 4 cities (I think this is new).
Piety got some tweaks for faith, including organized religion giving a faith bonus instead of happy.
Commerce got a few tweaks - haven't tried it but it looks a bit more interesting. Completing also allow buying great merch for faith. I haven't done commerce in ages so I'm not sure if protectionism changed (+2 happy per lux - seems powerful enough that I would remember but who knows).
Completing order lets you buy great engineers for faith. Not sure if anything else was tweaked.
Completing autocracy enables purchase of GGs and admirals for faith. Probably some other minor tweaks.
Freedom - artists for faith;
Rationalishm - scientists for faith - which is somewhat amusing
Can someone tell me the state of Songhai's ability as well as the status of the buildings that replaced Temples (Mud Temple Mosque and Burial Tomb)? Thanks
Mud pyramid mosque gives 2 culture and 2 faith for no upkeep. Askia is still 3x pillage/plunder and land units get promotions to make them stronger when embarked.
Burial tomb gives 2 gold and 2 failth with the same capture penalty.
Thus far, no massive invasions yet. Maria Theresa tried sending in Minutemen, Keshiks and threatening my cities with Privateers/Frigates, but I haven't seen anything that would indicate she is getting all serious about taking me out.
Then again, she is in the score and tech lead
Also, AI won't blindly charge into your machineguns. They will keep out of range and pull back if they can't break through, and they will brutally focus fire chop your units one by one - even if they are embarked.
They will also escort most of their embarked units under Privateers and Frigates.
Recapturing it's capital with naval units and a coastal raid? That sounds rather promising. I'm not expecting wonders from it but if it has a decent awareness for building a navy and using it that'd be pretty sweet. Much more so than what it does currently at any rate.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
I really must thank you guys for this thread. As someone with 2 more days to wait, it's been great reading all of your stories, & is definitely giving me hope that this XP pack definitely comes close to living up to the hype-especially regarding the AI ;-).
Aussie.
Aussie.
TM Moot
King
quick query - is instaheal still allowed as a promotion?
No, you only get 50 HP back.
TM Moot
King
Hmm... that doesn't bode particularly well. While it does seem to have a fleet, they seem to be sailing almost independently of the embarked land forces behind them. At least the combat fleet seems to be in some kind of formation, however, that alone should make naval combat more interesting.
Did something happen to Austria that sent it on that CS spree, or is this something you reckon we should expect to happen when facing her?
Also, I echo Aussie Lurker's comments. I suspect this thread (amongst others) will keep me going until it becomes available here on Friday. Many thanks to all.
Did something happen to Austria that sent it on that CS spree, or is this something you reckon we should expect to happen when facing her?
Also, I echo Aussie Lurker's comments. I suspect this thread (amongst others) will keep me going until it becomes available here on Friday. Many thanks to all.
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