Prehistoric Era [BNW] - Total Conversion

beewyka819 said:

When will a functional release of the soon to be newest update be out?

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I have a 66% functional version.

I committed a terrible Software Development sin and tried to do too much at once, knowing I had so many other things on my plate. After working two decades building startups and working in Agile and other methodologies, I decided to break everything I've learned because I got excited.

Now I am deep into it.

So ask this: Do you think anyone would be interested in being a tester for a partially working mod?

As an example, some building will do nothing. All units work, half don't have the 3-d graphics -- but all icons are done. Only 1/4 of the wonders are functional.

The complete tech tree works.

The AI gets a little stuck sometimes, and some of the new game concepts haven't been finished (e.g. I am adding SOCIETY as a new top-level point (gold, faith, science, etc). Since early man really didn't really develop much of the others (to make gameplay effective) I've added SOCIETY points and even EVOLUTION points. THIS IS NOT WORKING.

Any testers out there?

carloscodex said:

Any testers out there?

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I could do some game-testing for you. Just let me know exactly what kind of feedback you are looking for.

I am having problems with reloading the Civ 5 when I use the "Prehistoric Era v .5" mod. I works fine when I start the game but when I save and quit, then come later to play again the game never loads, it just hangs then my Win 7 tells me that Civ 5 stopped working. Anyone else having the problem? What can I do to fix this problem?http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Moderator Action: Welcome to Civfanatics. Please in future post in the thread belonging to the mod you have a question about rather than starting a new thread.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

ksgates99 said:

I am having problems with reloading the Civ 5 when I use the "Prehistoric Era v .5" mod. I works fine when I start the game but when I save and quit, then come later to play again the game never loads, it just hangs then my Win 7 tells me that Civ 5 stopped working. Anyone else having the problem? What can I do to fix this problem?http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Moderator Action: Welcome to Civfanatics. Please in future post in the thread belonging to the mod you have a question about rather than starting a new thread.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

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It sounds like you are playing the original G&K version, is that correct? What other mods do you have loaded? Which civilization are you playing?

Wow, I am absolutely amazed at the scope of this mod. I had a vision of what I thought would be a cool mod to spice up the beginning portions of this game in Neo-Rev ( a mod I hoped to create), but unfortunately I am very limited in code-speak. I was pointed in your direction and immediately subscribed and played and I take my hat off to you. Your research, planning, and implementation is amazing.
If I could humbly offer some advice I would only change one thing...
The very beginning:
I think the Settler unit should be made available once you reach Agriculture.
You should begin with a 'Band' or 'Tribe' unit that allows a one hex city to be constructed and unable to grow or expand until you advance through the tech tree as you have it currently. Also, the art should be more along the lines of a Barbarian Encampment rather than a City.
Furthermore, another mod that allows a hex to be claimed after a unit fortifies is out there and could be included to simulate rival bands and/or tribes fighting over territory.
Lastly, I think a large number of civs should begin at the start and be hostile towards one another until a certain tech allows peace and cooperation to be an option.
Anyways, just my two cents...Great job!

SilentStorm73 said:

Wow, I am absolutely amazed at the scope of this mod. I had a vision of what I thought would be a cool mod to spice up the beginning portions of this game in Neo-Rev ( a mod I hoped to create), but unfortunately I am very limited in code-speak. I was pointed in your direction and immediately subscribed and played and I take my hat off to you. Your research, planning, and implementation is amazing.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I could use the help. I have an enormous amount of project note and research which I have in Google Docs and I've yet to transfer to CivFanatics or the GitHub site.

https://github.com/carlosfhernandez/civ5-prehistoric

Essentially, any detailed research and game planning would be fantastic. I supposed I should organize the notes a little and add them here so that anyone can start helping out. I'd prefer GitHub since it has the perfect collaborative system (it's GitHub!) and a wiki but Fanatics will work just as well as a summary spot. Please send me your suggestions and gameplay experiences!

SilentStorm73 said:

If I could humbly offer some advice I would only change one thing...
The very beginning:
I think the Settler unit should be made available once you reach Agriculture.
You should begin with a 'Band' or 'Tribe' unit that allows a one hex city to be constructed and unable to grow or expand until you advance through the tech tree as you have it currently. Also, the art should be more along the lines of a Barbarian Encampment rather than a City.

Click to expand...

I already have something very similar in my v0.3alpha-experimental mod.

The concept is that there were NO SETTLEMENTS. Man was fairly nomadic. Thus I've created a "Great Leader unit type" which acts as your "home base". The units (tribe) follows him/her as they provide bonuses like a settlement. Leaders can be improved and follow different improvement paths.

The huge problem I have is that the death of this leader ends the game. Some may like this type of difficulty and others may not, so I may add the option of death of a leader resetting their improvements. The other problem is getting the AI to work properly. That is the most difficult part since it is a NEW type of behavior. Death of Great Leaders for AI is handled differently (more on that in my Google Docs).

Settle Units ("Found" attribute in the game core) have a progression like you mentioned.

Since settlingrequires a settlement, the first Settle unit is called a "Tribe Split" which actually will reduce your current settlement (tribe settlement) by -1. This is very costly at the beginning but reflects the problems of splitting you tribe and going off and settling somewhere else.

They are also very limited (e.g. 1 movement). "Leader" traits or certain Buildings will provide a bonus to them like +1 Movement or removing the -1 Population penalty.

SilentStorm73 said:

Furthermore, another mod that allows a hex to be claimed after a unit fortifies is out there and could be included to simulate rival bands and/or tribes fighting over territory.

Click to expand...

I'd like to explore this more. The gameplay could become a little too powerful unless it is very hard to claim that hex.

The first settlement, the tribe settlement, only has two hexes, the center one where the settlement is located and one more.

Please send me more ideas and how you think this could work -- the hex claiming -- and keep the game somewhat balanced.

SilentStorm73 said:

Lastly, I think a large number of civs should begin at the start and be hostile towards one another until a certain tech allows peace and cooperation to be an option.
Anyways, just my two cents...Great job!

Click to expand...

This is a wonderful idea I hadn't thought of. I could make it so that the earliest forms of communication (one of the techs) could eliminate this permanent hostility.

I'll explore more. In reality, I am not sure if different "tribes" were all hostile towards each other so I may have to limit that.


Thanks for the suggestions!!

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=157861825
It's called Military Occupy Territory and I use it in every game of Civ that I play. The only thing that seems to be wrong with it is that the AI doesn't seem to use it for gains...It does work when the AI fortifies a hex and you will see random hex's scattered throughout the map where a battle occurred in the past, but it will need to be tweaked for it to be of use in your mod.

carloscodex said:

Thanks. I could use the help. I have an enormous amount of project note and research which I have in Google Docs and I've yet to transfer to CivFanatics or the GitHub site.

https://github.com/carlosfhernandez/civ5-prehistoric

Essentially, any detailed research and game planning would be fantastic. I supposed I should organize the notes a little and add them here so that anyone can start helping out. I'd prefer GitHub since it has the perfect collaborative system (it's GitHub!) and a wiki but Fanatics will work just as well as a summary spot. Please send me your suggestions and gameplay experiences!



I already have something very similar in my v0.3alpha-experimental mod.

The concept is that there were NO SETTLEMENTS. Man was fairly nomadic. Thus I've created a "Great Leader unit type" which acts as your "home base". The units (tribe) follows him/her as they provide bonuses like a settlement. Leaders can be improved and follow different improvement paths.

The huge problem I have is that the death of this leader ends the game. Some may like this type of difficulty and others may not, so I may add the option of death of a leader resetting their improvements. The other problem is getting the AI to work properly. That is the most difficult part since it is a NEW type of behavior. Death of Great Leaders for AI is handled differently (more on that in my Google Docs).

Settle Units ("Found" attribute in the game core) have a progression like you mentioned.

Since settlingrequires a settlement, the first Settle unit is called a "Tribe Split" which actually will reduce your current settlement (tribe settlement) by -1. This is very costly at the beginning but reflects the problems of splitting you tribe and going off and settling somewhere else.

They are also very limited (e.g. 1 movement). "Leader" traits or certain Buildings will provide a bonus to them like +1 Movement or removing the -1 Population penalty.



I'd like to explore this more. The gameplay could become a little too powerful unless it is very hard to claim that hex.

The first settlement, the tribe settlement, only has two hexes, the center one where the settlement is located and one more.

Please send me more ideas and how you think this could work -- the hex claiming -- and keep the game somewhat balanced.



This is a wonderful idea I hadn't thought of. I could make it so that the earliest forms of communication (one of the techs) could eliminate this permanent hostility.

I'll explore more. In reality, I am not sure if different "tribes" were all hostile towards each other so I may have to limit that.


Thanks for the suggestions!!

Click to expand...

Perhaps for the hex claiming it can only be claimed if next to your civs current border and if at war then next to or in the civs borders that you're at war with. Also should take a few turns to claim it if the hex you're trying to claim is next to or in another civs borders that you're at war with.

actually injures your unit to depict the native populations resistance, so in a circumstance where you are in or near enemy territory, you would most definitely want to consider this or you will lose that unit.
I really think this could add to this mod because it will provide an additional set of objectives for your tribe...to control hunting grounds and lush fertile areas. It is worth fighting for because it is the only way to ensure your survival, especially if the 'Leader' unit is incorporated. Also interesting is the fact that certain resources don't appear until a tech is revealed, so what once was prime territory may change once you discover new techs.

So, how is the mod coming along? Still %66 progress or?

Please tell me more about how you plan to implement the 'Leader' (Tribe)unit.
Can it be made into a 'Great' unit a la a Great General? That builds an encampment?
Also can that unit provide sustenance (science, production, culture, food, gold) without a city?
Can the cultural borders of a city be only the settled hex when prompted to build? Not a +1 around the settled tile?
Can this 'encampment' (or one hex city) be made to be nomadic and move to a more desirable location once tech tree advances reveal more fertile land and leave ruins or archaeological sights behind? And restore your Tribe unit?
I feel like I have some great ideas, but I don't know what is and isn't possible to mod.
By the way, I really think that all tribes should begin hostile to one another in order to depict the struggles to find and defend fertile lands. And if you lose your tribe, then your civ should definitely fail to survive.
I will post a full explanation for my reasons, but I just wanted to have these questions answered.
Looking forward to your response.

SilentStorm73 said:

Please tell me more about how you plan to implement the 'Leader' (Tribe)unit.
Can it be made into a 'Great' unit a la a Great General? That builds an encampment?
Also can that unit provide sustenance (science, production, culture, food, gold) without a city?
Can the cultural borders of a city be only the settled hex when prompted to build? Not a +1 around the settled tile?
Can this 'encampment' (or one hex city) be made to be nomadic and move to a more desirable location once tech tree advances reveal more fertile land and leave ruins or archaeological sights behind? And restore your Tribe unit?
I feel like I have some great ideas, but I don't know what is and isn't possible to mod.
By the way, I really think that all tribes should begin hostile to one another in order to depict the struggles to find and defend fertile lands. And if you lose your tribe, then your civ should definitely fail to survive.
I will post a full explanation for my reasons, but I just wanted to have these questions answered.
Looking forward to your response.

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I'm sure it's possible, as Civ V is apparently more moddable than previous games, people just don't realize this because people haven't done amazingly mind blowing things like this nomadic feature that apshai/carloscodex plans to implement!

Well yes, people don't realize it because there hasn't been any mods in the scale of Caveman2Cosmos or even Rhyse and Fall. As far as I can see, the modding community consists of a bunch of new civilizations, a couple new buildings and oh look, Changes to Policies! We simply need a proof of concept that shows Civ 5 is much more moddable than Civ 4 for example. Until then, people will keep talking about how bad Civ 5 is in terms of modding and how it ruined the modding comunity.

SilentStorm73 said:

Please tell me more about how you plan to implement the 'Leader' (Tribe)unit.
Can it be made into a 'Great' unit a la a Great General? That builds an encampment?
Also can that unit provide sustenance (science, production, culture, food, gold) without a city?

Click to expand...

That's exactly what a leader is for. It is a replacement for settlements which man did not really have early on since they were somewhat nomadic and didn't really building things. So the "Great Leader" unit will BE THE SETTLEMENT (with limited movement).

This is all working fine, already. But the biggest problem is programming the AI to learn how this new concept works. I have tried a few "workarounds" that simulate settlements (hidden) for the AI that are on par with the Great Leader (while they still have great leader that does not provide the bonuses). The settlement "moves" as the Leader moves. It's a complete hack but seems to be working so far. This is the easiest way without having to write huge amounts of AI code and concepts and even change the DLL.

SilentStorm73 said:

Can the cultural borders of a city be only the settled hex when prompted to build? Not a +1 around the settled tile?
Can this 'encampment' (or one hex city) be made to be nomadic and move to a more desirable location once tech tree advances reveal more fertile land and leave ruins or archaeological sights behind? And restore your Tribe unit?

Click to expand...

Yup. Great Leader start with one hex. It has the ability to only add hexes within one radius (via experience). It is difficult to do this (in game -- in other words, it's not that easy to acquire new tiles in your "cultural boundaries").

I started playing with the idea of two new "Points Types" (Don't know what to call them). We have Gold, Faith, Culture, etc. I am adding [ICON_SOCIETY] Society and [ICON_INFLUENCE] Influence (for Great Leaders). Via experience and other methods a Great Leaders (your civilization/settlement) gains influence and thus can expand "borders".

Again, the issue is the AI, but I do have workarounds in mind (but not tested).

Society will be used to "purchase" things early on since, let's face it, trade and gold was fairly non-existent back then.

SilentStorm73 said:

I feel like I have some great ideas, but I don't know what is and isn't possible to mod.
By the way, I really think that all tribes should begin hostile to one another in order to depict the struggles to find and defend fertile lands. And if you lose your tribe, then your civ should definitely fail to survive.
I will post a full explanation for my reasons, but I just wanted to have these questions answered.
Looking forward to your response.

Click to expand...

There is also a concept of a regular Leader UnitClass, of which each civilization will have their Unit. This is an early unit.

How do you vision early skill adaptation and discovering technologies? Can a player set a research goal or are technologies discovered by chance? Or maybe even by geological influence?!

Am I doing something wrong?
My Primitive Archer unit doesn't do a range attack. It says "Ranged Attack" in the pre-battle odds pop-up, but when I click, it runs toward the enemy and engages in melee. Even if an enemy is in adjacent tile.

Hyronymus said:

How do you vision early skill adaptation and discovering technologies? Can a player set a research goal or are technologies discovered by chance? Or maybe even by geological influence?!

Click to expand...

I had thought about this. It would make great gameplay to add certain prereqs for certain technologies (like geological, number of units, etc).

The big issue is the AI and coding the AI to understand this. I could simply just have the AI not have these prereqs, giving it a slight advantage.

I also have to ensure that prereqs are NOT difficult and that they wouldn't completely prevent a player from advancing in era. The hard prereqs could be one-off technologies that provide small bonuses.

saamohod said:

Am I doing something wrong?
My Primitive Archer unit doesn't do a range attack. It says "Ranged Attack" in the pre-battle odds pop-up, but when I click, it runs toward the enemy and engages in melee. Even if an enemy is in adjacent tile.

Click to expand...

The primitive archer has a short range (1 space). So it needs to be next to the enemy unit. The only advantage SHOULD be that they still range attack, and this the enemy will not immediately retaliate/defend and cause damage (not until the next turn when they have an opportunity to attack).

I made this so that early range attacks weren't that effective (since it longer range attacks came about later).

LET ME KNOW IF THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR YOU.

Do you have any plans to change city states so they either: Don't spawn till later (Doesn't really make sense how this could work because there may not be any land left for them because of people settling but of course they can spawn right before you can settle actual cities) or just make it so their borders don't grow until a certain stage

Also, how's it coming along, last I heard it was 66% functional, so how functional is it now and what percentage close to actual release is it?