[BNW] Tradition: Three Cities Approaches (BNW)

This strategy is even greater with a culture ruin. Just kind not stand 25 turns to open the first SP.

Thanks for the guide Tab! I was off playing other games for a while and the game has been patched/updated a couple of times since then.

I do have a question though - are you advocating NEVER building any more cities than the initial 3? Or should I expand later as needs/circumstances dictate?

Another question - how do you deal with the unhappiness penalty from lots of population?

The reason I ask these questions is that in a recent game I have been going for a CV and/or DV with The Incas. I was trucking along fine with happiness at 4 cities. I built a 5th city next to a faith-giving natural wonder on an island just off my coast. Soon I was deeply unhappy and can't seem to dig my way out of it - I've built every happiness building I can build. Only by working out a trade for a little more luxury variety was I able to get under 10 unhappiness and, of course, that's only temporary.

I would love to un-build that 5th city but I'm not sure I wouldn't have had problems anyway. I generally prefer to go tall as opposed to wide, even in a domination game (I just puppet in that case). I don't remember having this kind of problem with unhappiness in tall empires before.

I suggest to not go over than 3 if you are gone for a Xbow or Chivalry UU rush. Play as the map dictates of course. Sometimes you wanna rush your neighbor asap and maybe stay with 2 cities to rush CBs.

marlowe221 said:

I do have a question though - are you advocating NEVER building any more cities than the initial 3? Or should I expand later as needs/circumstances dictate?

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The thread title is a little misleading. It’s three cities before NC, with possibility for forth after that. That detail is easy to miss. Also, except for trade routes of course, it works well for GnK (prolly vanilla too).

beetle said:

The thread title is a little misleading. It’s three cities before NC, with possibility for forth after that. That detail is easy to miss. Also, except for trade routes of course, it works well for GnK (prolly vanilla too).

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Agreed about the thread title and what this tactic is really about, but 2 city NC works better in G&K and Vanilla, but the main extremely early gold sources was shut down in BNW which result in it taking so long to get 400 gold that a second city could have hand built a library anyway.

Nothing can stop the player to build as much cities as he want right after the NC completion. The simulation roughly covers the first 80-90 turns only.

Tabarnak said:

Nothing can stop the player to build as much cities as he want right after the NC completion. The simulation roughly covers the first 80-90 turns only.

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Global Happiness will prevent too many cities being built back to back to back. And along with when you do decide to built the national wonders (say Circus Maximus) having that many more cities needing a copy of each and every building.

I'm just wondering what is the optimal turn for completing the NC with this opening? I cant ever seem to do it before turn 85-90. And that tends to snowball into not being able to get rationalism early.

i_imperator said:

I'm just wondering what is the optimal turn for completing the NC with this opening? I cant ever seem to do it before turn 85-90. And that tends to snowball into not being able to get rationalism early.

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NC can be delayed a bit as long as you can give max growth to your cities. 8-6-4 cities with NC turn 72 is not that much different than 11-8-5 turn 82 NC. I still prefer the second empire due to extra production/gold set up.

It's a matter of perspective. But no matter what you should finish before 90.

Tabarnak said:

NC can be delayed a bit as long as you can give max growth to your cities. 8-6-4 cities with NC turn 72 is not that much different than 11-8-5 turn 82 NC. I still prefer the second empire due to extra production/gold set up.

It's a matter of perspective. But no matter what you should finish before 90.

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Perfect!

For myself its very dooable with two cities, but when i go to three i generally finish it around turn 95 to 100, depending on the production i have in the captial.
There has been some talk on the fourms of sending the caravans to the capital instead of sending them to the satellite cities, do you think this approach is optimal? Ive seen games in the TSG series where you are able to have a population of 17 in the capital by turn 120 and i can barely get to pop 12 by that time

Settling near granary ressources is a good way to save a caravan for your capital. Faster you will send your first caravan faster you will have it back for your capital around the NC completion.

Tabarnak, in your video why didn't you build cities 2&3 on coast since cargo ships give more food. Also, do you advise sending food to the capital for the Monarchy bonus?

Hey Tabarnak - great guide!

So, I have a couple questions for you.

I'm currently trying to do a 3 City Tradition start with the Shoshone on Immortal difficulty, and I'm wondering what to build first.

1. A Pathfinder: The equivalent to the scout you recommend. Getting the Pathfinders out, snatching up ruins, is a recipe for a strong start.

2. A Settler. It doesn't take long at all for my first Pathfinder to find a ruin and get that free Pop. This would allow me to create a Settler much quicker.

3. A granary. I have a Wheat next to my capitol, and you do mention that if you have a Wheat start you should build a granary before your first Settler.

So would you recommend a Pathfinder, Granary (once you have pottery after AH - another great thing about Shoshone is that you can get a pantheon through the ruins, no need for shrines) and then the first Settler? Or should I have that Settler out as early as possible (which will be very damn early, since I can start building it right after I find my first ruin)?

But I can tell already that this strategy is pretty strong. My first time playing Immortal, and after thirty turns I'm at the lead in front of the AI, where I tend to struggle a bit at the beginning in Prince and King. I'm looking forward to seeing how the rest of the game goes!

W4H

Writer4Hire said:

and you do mention that if you have a Wheat start you should build a granary before your first Settler.

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Multiple wheat/deer/banana tiles. Not only one, it doesn't worth it

Shoshones make life easier. My personnal pathfinder combo is: 1)Culture 2)Pop 3)gold or upgrade depending of situation.

I should have thought of that. I realized when trying it that doing Granary before Settler puts you a bit further behind than if you waited to build a Granary after you have the Settler made. So the only reason to go that route is if by making the Granary you'll be getting some massive food from your wheat/bananas/deer.

So the order should be:

Pathfinder: Culture, pop and then gold/upgrade to comp. bowman

BO: Pathfinder, Settler then Granary.

OldEarthRelic said:

Tabarnak, in your video why didn't you build cities 2&3 on coast since cargo ships give more food. Also, do you advise sending food to the capital for the Monarchy bonus?

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They take longer to build and research however. Precious early game turns during which you want your capital to produce units, buildings (and maybe wonders too).

I think up through King at least, the Honor opener should be the first policy, and then go to Tradition as normal. The point being that the AI will expand more slowly. Because of that, there will be more Barbarians around for longer and there will be goody huts to find for much longer. Honor lets your initial Warrior takeout fortified Barbarians Warriors on Hills, lets your Scouts enter hexes that would otherwise be too risky, and will give you a ton of Culture over the course of the game.

neilkaz said:

Thx Tab,

Do you have any advice for expanding this to 4 cities for SP play vs AI's? I hate wasting that 4th early free monument and duct. However, sometimes playing Immortal (likely more than sometimes at Deity) there's no decent 4th city site left.

Thx .. neilkaz ..

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From my experience going with 3 tall cities and saving that 4th city with a free monument and aqueduct for when you get in to the industrial era and you know where the coal and aluminum can be found is usually a winning strategy. And I kind of like settling a remote location like an island or a tundra peninsula in the later stages of the game to get some strategic resources. By then the economy is often rather strong and I have cash saved up so that food and production buildings can be bought along with a worker upon settling the new city. There is no better feeling then seeing a new city grow when it have a granary, water mill, aqueduct and perhaps a work boat and perhaps a food trade route going to it.

Is the one horse for 2gpt thing considered as an exploit or not? Since the AI doesn't give that much gold if you sell in bulk.

Some regard it as an exploit, and refrain from using it, while others view it as a legitimate game mechanic due to rounding. It is not a prohibited exploit in HOF or GOTM games.