RSG4 NOW Emperor Spain

Hey temp. Thanks for your comment. I knew I was in trouble when I saw Seville.

I never play All War games, and I never play on maps the size of a dime. I'm here to learn.

my comment was not especially directed at you, or anyone else, just the situation you are in. of course individual moves led you there, but hey, this is a succession game, and there are experienced players in this team. really, you should have some discussion about what the plans are for the next player. CKS put that right.

the one thing i would have expected if i were a team member is that you pause and ask back if you feel insecure about what to do with that settler. however, since there was not much of a discussion about anything in this game until now, you probably did not consider that.

t_x
 
You're right, templar_X. I should have discussed it with the rest of the team.

Speaking of which, as far as trades go, I too like IW & Pottery and 22 gold from the Babs. Then see if we can get The Wheel and 51 gold from the Mayans, then Writing from the Chinese.

What are we going to do about the wandering Hoplite? Pull the freshly made Cat out of Madrid and then hit him with the Archer? Maybe pull the Warrior out of Barcelona as back up?
 
I think that the point has been made that we need more communication and I'll take responsibility for my share of that. I should have dot mapped as soon as we had a clear picture of the surrounding back when CKS asked the question.

That said, we live and we learn and I'm don't think its time to throw in the towel just yet. Here is the second attempt at a dot map after looking at what everyone said and a little more thought. How does this look?



Regarding the settler, I"ll see if I can get him to the grey dot - sorry, I cut him off a little at the top. If not, we'll see what can happen.

I think if we don't grab writing immediately then we won't have that option anymore. I think we can grab writing from the Chinese, IW (we've only got 5 turns left of it) and pottery. Maybe the Wheel and some gold. Myst will be out, I think. Or we can probably clean up on everything but writing; miss some gold. We'll have to research writing on our own or we go straight for construction or currency and use it for trading to get us closer to republic (if that is where we are going).

Regarding the hoplite, I think knocking a single hit point off him will make him retreat to neutral terriroty to heal. I don't think I want to hit him until he is redlined unless we get some horses or swords. I'll use the cat to ping the archer if I can, but I'll wait until he's off the hill. Once we have some cats it will make defense much easier. When we have the invaders under control we can look at forming on offensive. It looks like this weird landmass has everyone shoved together. I don't think anyone is going to grow much without packing in the cities.
 
What do you think about my moving the red dot over 1SW? I don't know if it matters? That is a lake to the north, so fresh water. We could even go 2 NE instead? I'm not sure what's best there. I guess it depends on what we plan for disbanding cities. Make the green dot a worker/Cat factory? Same for the Brown (?) if we found that city. Or we found the brown dot and use the purple for workers and cats and disband later?
 
Heavens forbid that I of all people would say it's too tight now, but unless we disband later, there would be about 8-10 weak little 4 pop cities. To the nitty-gritty of things, no pink dot, brown moves 1 nw, no red dot, green goes 1nw, yellow x is perfect, grey dot is fine, teal dot is fine. blue and purple should merge in the middle, and we'll need lots of settlers, whatever and wherever we put them.
 
TO, the teal dot you are referring to is the light blue dot (to me, anyway) 2 tiles south of the purple dot? I gree with TO's assessment, but I'd lose the green and move that red dot 1 NE back up to that lakeshore.
 
Okay, I only used the one settler to put down on the gray dot. Things are still really dicey.

Turn 60 [1500BC]

MM Madrid back to wheat for additional growth, shields not needed here.
MM Barcelona to grass to gain growth this turn.

Trades
I decide I want to lift writing. I think we can leverage the rest and I don’t fancy leaving it behind.
China – Math gets us Writing & 9gp.
Babys – Math gets us IW, Pottery & 22gp.
Mayans – Math gets us TW & 30gp.

Netherlands is still up Myst, MM & HBR.
No one has phil, head there at 100% science, 11t @ -2gpt, 102gp in the bank.

IBT – Archer joins other archer by Seville.
Hoplite moves on road towards road with ivory.
Barb runs away somewhere off the screen. Breath a sigh of relief.

Turn 61 [1475BC]

Madrid: Cat=>Cat

Cat rolls out. -1hp to hoplite. Cover with spear from Madrid.
Now that there are two archers by Seville I doubt I have time to cut the forest. Retreat the worker back to the city.
Settler SE.
Need 10% lux in Madrid because I moved the spear.

IBT – Babylon demands 24gp and we are in no position to refuse. Cough up the money.
Apologize to Mayans for invading their coastal waters.
Every Greek unit moves towards Seville. We’re in trouble. Hoplite treats from Cat.

Turn 62 [1450BC]

Move settler SE.
Move cat & spear back to Madrid.
Science to 100%, phil due in 7t.
Worker stays in Seville. With 3 archers advancing, change cat to spear and rush. It hurts but it has to happen. MM to Wheat for growth in 7t. I may join worker and rush again, but then again, may not have time.

IBT – 4 Greek archers advance on Seville, only 3 in range this turn. :sad:


Turn 63 [1425BC]

Seville: Spear=>Spear. Keep worker in garrison. Greek need to win every battle to take Seville.
Found Toledo but if Seville falls, Toledo is toast.

IBT – Our spears earn their pay. 4/4 spear fends off an attack and goes elite but 2/5hp. Our 3/3 spear fends off two attacks and is promote vet, 2/4hp.
The hoplite moves towards Toledo.

Turn 64 [1400BC]

Madrid: Cat=>Spear
I move Seconds Please to garrison the city and pray that Seville can garrison another unit before more archers arrive.
Swap Barcelona’s cat to a spear. I’m going to chop some forests here and then start Zues.

IBT – Greek hoplite moves onto road/irrigated sugar. Nothing I can do to stop him. We now have 2 archers outside Seville again.

Turn 65 [1375BC]

We meet Arabia and they are down writing, up myst. Give them writing for Myst & 68gp.
Madrid is size 5 and can go 10spt now. Don’t swap yet because spear will still take 2t. Maintain growth.

IBT – China demands 25gp. We can’t afford a war, so I give it up.
Hoplite pillages, as expected.
Hittites finish the Oracle.
Two archers are next to Seville again.

Turn 66 [1350BC]

Barcelona: Spear=>Cat
Pray.

IBT – no attack – one of the Greek archers decides to attack a barb instead.


Turn 67 [1325BC]

Madrid: Spear=>Spear
Cats advance and bomb an incoming archer to 2/4. 3/3 archer finishes him off and promotes to vet.

IBT – Hoplite advances on Madrid workers. Another archer peels off to join invasion of Madrid.

Turn 68 [1300BC]

Move archers and cats back towards Madrid.
Meet Hittites. They are down Math. Math gets us HBR & 25gp.
Science to 80%, phil in 2t.
Seville is in trouble again. 3 archers and 1 hoplite on the move. Join the worker and rush a Cat. Next turn I will rush a spear.

China has a monopoly on poly and won’t give it up.

IBT – Archer consolidate on Seville but Hoplite leaves? 2nd Hoplite moves towards Barcelona while a new archer advances on Madrid. No rest for the wicked.

Turn 69 [1250BC]

Madrid: Spear=>Cat
Barcelona: Cat=>Cat
Seville: Cat=>Spear

Cat at Seville bombs archer stack & takes a point off lead archer.
Cats from Madrid take 1 point off a hoplite.

IBT – Two archers suicide on our 5/5 spear and we get a GL! Name him the Grand Spear.
Pull in Phil first. Go to trade screen. Offer China Phil for 10gp & Poly. Set our research to Monarchy.
Go to Babs and give them HBR & Phil for MM & 15gp.
We learn Monarchy from Phil. Set to Literature but not sure what we want to do now. Lit will make good trade bait, but we’ve got Monarchy now.

Turn 70 [1240BC]

Not revolt. Up to next player. Seville riots for some dumb reason – I was rushing here but apparently the growth took place on the IBT and I couldn’t catch it in time.

Stop here for next player. All units are unmoved.


Civilian units:
Settler 0
Workers 3
Slaves 0

Military units:
Archer 1
Warriors 3
Spear 7
Cats: 4
Curragh 1

Unit Support:
Total Units: 20
Allowed Units: 16
Support Cost: 4 gpt

Enemies/Hit list:
Greece=>Despotism=> Weak compared to=>8 cities
Mayan=>Despotism=> Average compared to=>7 cities
Babylon=>Despotism=> Strong compared to=>5 cities
China=>Despotism=> Strong compared to=>3 cities
Netherlands=>Despotism=> Strong compared to=>4 cities
Hittites=>Despotism=> Weak compared to=>7 cities
Arabia=>Despotism=>Average compared to=>6 cities

We have 4 cities.

Victory
Spain % of World Area: 5
Spain % of World Population: 12

Research: Sciene: 90%, Literature (0 turns invested), 14 turns @ -5gpt, 158gp in the bank.


Our GL is in Seville where he spawned. Not sure what we want to use him on since we can’t rush wonders.

We have Monarchy. I decided that was the best path to take given the course of the game. We can always revolt again later since we are religious. Maybe we can start kicking Greek butt now. I know the tech choice wasn't discussed but it seems like too great an opportunity to pass up. The chance to leave despotism behind 50+ turns before Greece can make the switch was just too strong a factor. CoL was not available for trade. Hope everyone is okay with this. As we are religious, we can swap later if we want and Monarchy will be great trade bait.

I haven’t been able to start the SoZ and there is Ivory over by the Mayans. :sad: I think Madrid is big enough for us to peel off a settler now if we want and growth will see an improvement with Monarchy. :D

Good luck to the next player!



**Edit**

Completed the hit list on the OP now that we know everyone.

Roster
Raliuven (just played)
CKS (Playing)
Toxicman007 (on deck)
TheOverseer714 (warming up)
Cyc (waiting)
 

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lurker's comment:
I'd make an Army with your Leader. Colonize one of the Iron sources ASAP, and fill it with Swords. That should give you an edge in the struggle against Greece.
 
Well, this is an interesting situation. Great job getting a leader. I'll turn it into an army immediately. Colonizing some iron sounds like a good possibility. It can't be the western iron, because Akkad's borders will pop quickly, so we need to protect it from the Greeks. If we should get an SGL for lit before our iron comes online, we should rush SoZ and wait for an AC army, though.

Revolting to monarchy sounds good to me.

I've got the save.
 
Considering we're going to be constantly at war, we may as well treat this like an AW game and focus everything on military.
 
I see a new Greek city down South. There goes the neighborhood... :D

Yes, Leader to Army.

We can secure the western Iron by placing a city on the plains between it and the fish.

Try to get the Seville Dyes connected now.
 
Connecting the dyes is not going to happen until after we get control of the approach to Seville itself - or until they pick a different target. Currently it doesn't look so bad but they have 3-4 archers in the area at all times. We'll see a storm once we attack and fail to kill the first hoplite. With their base and a GA, we'll be drowning in archers (if not worse).

On the plus side, our catapults will start pulling them down. A single point off any unit causes it to retreat. That's good and bad, since they'll just be back with friends later. We need to start making archers/swords as the case may be so we can start attacking those exposed archers.
 
Turn 0:
Turn leader into army. Leave unfilled for now.
Hire a scientist in Seville rather than upping lux to 30%. Switch to a worker there.
Move cats and spears, road, bombard hoplite but miss.
IBT: Hoplite moves to the gold hill, causing Madrid to riot. Another archer appears.

Turn 1:
Bomb archer, bomb hoplite on gold for 1 hp each. Bomb other hoplite but miss. Move a spear from Madrid to help cover near archer. Lux to 20%. Move warrior out of Barcelona.
IBT: Mayans demand philosophy. They are pretty far away and our advisor says their military is about the same size as ours, so I refuse. They declare anyway. The hoplite on the gold retreats!?! Madrid builds a cat and starts SoZ. We can't afford to start it, but we can't afford not to, either.

Turn 2:
Cats go 1/3 against hoplites. Warrior forts on ivory.
IBT: Hoplite advances on Madrid, archers head toward Seville.

Turn 3:
Cats go 1/4. Worker and escort moves toward Seville. Warrior from Toledo heads toward Seville.
IBT: Archer dies to spear. Hoplite retreats. Another archer appears near Madrid.

Turn 4:
Cats get two hits on the archer near Madrid and our archer goes 2/4 finishing it off. Road toward Seville. Revolt.
IBT: Archer dies to spear escorting worker. Hoplites move around. Another archer near Madrid.

Turn 5:
Cats hit hoplite. Move archer back toward Madrid.
IBT: Nothing significant.

Turn 6:
We are a monarchy. MM. Trade Arabia MapMaking for 6 g plus 2 workers. Redline hoplites with cats.
IBT: Lots of archer motion.

Turn 7:
Bomb hoplites.
IBT: Archers come for Madrid.

Turn 8:
Bomb hoplites, switch Barcelona to archer, Seville to barracks.
IBT: Archers advance, hoplites retreat.

Turn 9:
Cats hit archer once. Archer redlines but kills other archer at Madrid. Warrior comes out of Seville, but shouldn't have, so it needs a scientist until the warrior goes back or the road is connected.
IBT: Archers move around a bunch. The Dutch learn construction. Barcelona finishes an archer and starts on a barracks.

Turn 10:
Move warrior back to Seville and put the scientist back to work. Rearrange worked tiles in Madrid. Leave other units unmoved.


Statue of Zeus is due in 9 turns. Then Madrid can build a settler.

We can connect the dyes soon. Seville is defended well enough that the Greeks are targeting Madrid now.

I just realized that the Akkad iron might be keepable if we built a temple in Barcelona. It would be faster to hook up. We need swords and AC to go on the offensive, but we've been able to play defensively with cats and an archer thanks to the stupidity of the AI.
 

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The hoplite on the gold retreats!?!

An example of AW philosophy, why catapults are so useful: When an enemy unit is wounded, it will generally retreat to neutral territory to heal rather than attack or pillage. If you lack the troops to kill them, wound them, buying time to build more troops.

We are still in a pickle, having so little troops, but the cats can keep us going. I will begin playing Saturday.
 
Well, Overseer is psychic and knows I'm going away for the weekend. Technically I can play, but then there won't be an update until Monday evening, when I get home.
 
Oops, had the order wrong! I can't play during the week, so maybe we could consider it a swap? I can have the save ready by Monday and Toxic can take it from there. Whatever works best is what I want, so if my accidental plan is a problem, I can wait my turn.
 
I think it would be better to make the swap. Better use of time. Civ on the fly.

I'd like to see Seville connected. What's your plan on getting any Iron hooked up? Would it be better to get the Greeks started on their GA now or in the near future?
 
Things got rough on me, the Maya screwed up the Iron hookup, the Greeks started their GA, and they now have Swords. The SOZ is about to finish, so we can start cranking troops out of Madrid, but Toxic will have his hands full. We need peace with the Maya ASAP, so we can have Swords. Anyway, here is the turn-log:
Spoiler :

Pre-flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Get the save loaded. Change Barcelona to a Temple, due in 10 turns. Ping Greek Archer.

Non-Combat
Workers 3
Slaves 2

Military units:
Warriors 4
Archers 2
Spears 7
Catapults 5
Army 1 (empty)
Curragh 1

B]Unit Support:[/B]
Total Units: 23
Allowed Units: 10
Support Cost: 13 gpt

Contacts-Target list
1: Greece=>War Despotism, Weak to
2: Babylon=>Peace Despotism, Average to
3: China=>Peace Despotism, Strong to
4: Maya=>War Despotism, Weak to
5: Netherlands=>Peace Despotism, Average to
6: Arabia=>Peace Despotism, Weak to
7: Hittites=>Peace Despotism, Weak to

Capital Size 7, grows in 4 turns, Statue of Zeus in 9 turns

Sliders2/7/1, Literature in 3 turns at -9 gpt, 107 gold in the bank.

Press Enter:

IBT: No attacks, wounded Hoplite moves onto wheat. 2 Greek Archers move in. Arab pre-boot.

Turn 1, 975 BC: ping 2 Greek Archers and Hoplite.

IBT: Maya far away? 4 Warriors show up near Barcelona…

Turn 2, 950 BC: Take a risk, pursue and kill a red-lined Greek Archer. Reluctantly rush Spear in Barcelona.

IBT: Mayans move in, Lots of Greeks running around. Arabs boot our Warrior. Literature researched, Code of Laws next in 13 turns.

Turn 3, 925 BC : At Madrid, Archer wins but red-lines, Warrior wins clean.

IBT: 3 Spears win at Barcelona, 4 the Maya chickens out. 3 Greek Archers move into our territory.

Turn 4, 900 BC:Ping 3 Archers, they should retreat. Another Hoplite thinks about pillaging, put a Spear on the Ivory to erase that notion…

IBT: You must be kidding me! Hoplite kills Warrior guarding Worker, that was very unprecedented. Guess who got their GA? Archers retreat.
Toledo Worker =>Spear.

Turn 5, 875 BC: Red-line and kill a Greek Archer, red-line offending Hoplite.

IBT: One Archer steps in.

Turn 6, 850 BC: Red-line a Greek Archer, Disband Me First, we can’t afford the upkeep.

IBT: 6 Greek Archers move in.

Turn 7, 825 BC : Cats miss 3 of 4, we could lose this game right here, 5 Archers vs 3 Spears and 2 Archers, our whole arsenal is in jeopardy.

IBT: Whew! They decided to not attack and went for the Wheat, Madrid riots as a result. Still dicey though. Another Archer appears in the south. Almost an afterthought, Maya Warrior suicides at Barcelona.

Turn 8, 800 BC: Cats do better, 4 for 4.

IBT: North Archers retreat but guess what shows up? A Sword, that’s right, Greeks have Swords. South Archers step up. Maya Javelin shows up.
Seville Barracks=>Archer.

Turn 9, 775 BC: Cats miss 2 of 4, move Spears to guard Madrid.

IBT: 2 Hoplites move onto north Wheat, nothing we can do yet. Another Maya Warrior shows up.

Turn 10, 750 BC: Leave units unmoved, next player can decide the next defensive steps.
I recommend shopping Monarchy around for techs, money and peace with the Maya, they are blocking the Iron. The Dutch have the most techs and money, Babylon has some cash too. Get every penny!
Non-Combat
Workers 3
Slaves 2

Military units:
Warriors 2
Archers 2
Spears 7
Catapults 5
Army 1 (empty)
Curragh 1

B]Unit Support:[/B]
Total Units: 22
Allowed Units: 10
Support Cost: 12 gpt

Contacts-Target list
1: Greece=>War Despotism, Weak to
2: Babylon=>Peace Despotism, Average to
3: China=>Peace Despotism, Strong to
4: Maya=>War Despotism, Weak to
5: Netherlands=>Peace Despotism, Average to
6: Arabia=>Peace Despotism, Weak to
7: Hittites=>Peace Despotism, Weak to

Capital Size 8, grows in 4 turns, Archer in 2 turns

Sliders2/7/1, Code of Laws in 4 turns at -5 gpt, 29 gold in the bank.


The save:
 
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