SGOTM 15 - Xteam

Thanks for the input.

On Maces, we cannot research Civil Service as it blocks bulbing of Astro. Not sure how we get by this though as we will need some more firepower to get Liz, or even Hammy. We have discussed getting Engineering for Trebs by using the Great Engineer we are growing in Delhi.

Delhi cannot hire any other Great People without building a Library or other structure to support a specialist. It is set to Library now, but probably needs to build more Cats for Toku?

Timing for AP is going to be a problem. Do not see how we possibly take enough of Toku's cities between votes? :eek:
 
Maybe xBows will be sufficient? I guess it depends how big of an army we build. A pile of trebs will negate maces. On the other hand, I suspect we will have plenty of time to slow research Astro while we are slogging through conquering our continent. :rolleyes::D

RE: running the table on Tofu before an AP vote... this is a big issue. Maybe we need to preposition unit on all of his buddhist cities until the next vote. Then after the vote happens, we grab them all. Guess it depends on how many he has. Maybe we will get lucky and find he only has 2-3. If any of his core cities are non-Buddhist, we grab them immediately. Of course, he will be whipping and building units like crazy so I agree we need to continue to emphasize units.

We certainly need some intelligence. I would send some small stacks out to open up FOW.
 
There's one turn until the next vote and as they probably don't have any resolutions to vote for, they will skip the whole next round of waiting for next vote, and so on until next election for resident and that should be in 5 turns. (Or so it was in my testing. :crazyeye: )

Toku went from 6 to 14 votes in 4 turns, this indicates that he has 2 cities with Buddhism. He's down to 12 votes now, a bit odd, that is not a lot for 2 cities, him being a full member. :confused:

If my calculations are correct, we have 9 turns from T118 to capture all his Buddhist cities. You'll have to watch the victory screen as you go along. :scan:

Victory screen:

Spoiler :






 
So, if I understand correctly, in 9 turns, we have to either capture all of Toku's Bud cities or else we must not own any Bud cities. True?

We have Machinery (from our first Engineer, I think). Its research just hasn't been allowed to complete. Is there a tactic I'm unaware of in action here?

Don't think we should abandon bulbing Astro right now -- not until we know more of the map. Cats, swords, and crossbows might be adequate in sufficient numbers. If we capture about 150 more gold, we can reseach IW in four turns (though not advocating this yet, certainly not until we have iron).

Concur that not time for OR.

Vara does have +6 food, so prefer whipping there to robbing mines from Vij. What about completing the cat and growing to pop 5, then building/whipping a worker there?

Probably does make sense to let Bombay grow and whip a unit for two pop.

We will get a GProph in Bombay before a GE in Delhi, so we will have to build a library in Delhi or acquire CoL sometime in the next 20 turns so we can run a couple of scientists in Delhi to get a GPerson there first.

"the Cat cannot defeat the Warrior if we move it south of Osaka, it can lose health if it attacks and we could then counter with an Axe, if that is what you are saying?" No, I was playing Vanilla in my head. Does the AI ever attack with a cat when it has no other unit available to follow up?
 
So, if I understand correctly, in 9 turns, we have to either capture all of Toku's Bud cities or else we must not own any Bud cities. True?

That's my take on it. I'm thinking we should play to have units positioned near his Buddhist cities in 9 turns, then go for them after the vote. I don't see us healing, moving, and then capturing his two cities in 9 turns.

CP said:
We have Machinery (from our first Engineer, I think). Its research just hasn't been allowed to complete. Is there a tactic I'm unaware of in action here?

Yep, I missed this. I would finish Machinery immediately, then research IW next. Might as well get Xbows.

CP said:
Don't think we should abandon bulbing Astro right now -- not until we know more of the map.

Been thinking about this some more and I agree. Liz may go much, much easier if we drop in attack forces near London and York from Galleons. With the mountain chain, overland warfare is too painful.
 
Yep, I missed this. I would finish Machinery immediately, then research IW next. Might as well get Xbows.
One turn @ 50% (-33 Gold) to gain Machinery and then 4 turns at 100% (total 256 Gold) to gain IW. Then a prayer that Iron is visible somewhere. :please:
 
There does not appear to be any really desirable tech to gain from Toku for peace other than IW at the moment. (Not clear to me that Alpha does us much good right now.) Perhaps we should finish Machinery (not sure we need to rush it) and slow-tech Sailing before IW, look for iron, then once we've found it, judge how soon we can acquire it (seems unlikely it will be less than 4 turns, including getting out of anarchy and possibly expanding) as well as whether we can finish off Toku without it. (If Toku gains, say, Monarchy, then IW should certainly be researched.) IW for peace would save gold for researching the likes of Compass, CoL, and Monarchy.
 
Thinking I should play a couple of turns, at least until we have sight of Toku's Capital.

Troops:
Move healthy units SW of Osaka to the SE and then to the East, keeping them in the forests.
Wounded units into Osaka to heal.
Units on the grass hill SE of Bombay to Osaka.

Hope that Cat attacks Osaka units and we can take that tile next and move a second stack SE towards whatever awaits.

Cities:
Delhi - Switch to Cat. If Scout moves towards Japan, keep building Cats. If Scout remains, next build an Axe, then back to Cats.

Bombay - Grows this turn, so let it grow and whip next turn? Use overflow for another Cat.

Vijay - Cat, Cat

Patalip - Cat, Cat

Varanasi - Cat, Worker?

Worker Actions:
As we are working nearly all improved tiles, and our road network is pretty solid, thinking we should consider farming and cottaging a few tiles near each city to allow us to change worked tiles whether we need pop growth or commerce?

Research:
Not sure how we want to research Machinery, @10% = 5 turns, @ 20% = 3 turns, @30% = 2 turns, @40% = 2 turns and at 50% = 1 turn?

On tech selection, Elizagawa has CoL's, and Machinery, so is eligible to research CS and Maces. Thinking we cannot afford to delay IW too long as we may need XBows to defend should she join Toku? Opinions?

What have I missed?

Thinking about moving ahead in about 20 hours from this post. Probably play 2 to 3 turns?
 
Plan looks good to me.

leif said:
Not sure how we want to research Machinery, @10% = 5 turns, @ 20% = 3 turns, @30% = 2 turns, @40% = 2 turns and at 50% = 1 turn?

I tend to always binary research, so I would go 100% for a turn.

leif said:
On tech selection, Elizagawa has CoL's, and Machinery, so is eligible to research CS and Maces. Thinking we cannot afford to delay IW too long as we may need XBows to defend should she join Toku? Opinions?

Agreed. Would be nice to build some XBows soon. They can help attack cities as well. CP raises a good point about getting IW from Togu, but we are quite a few turns from peace. I would like to know where to find iron asap, especially if we need to found a city to gain it.
 
Agreed. Would be nice to build some XBows soon. They can help attack cities as well. CP raises a good point about getting IW from Togu, but we are quite a few turns from peace. I would like to know where to find iron asap, especially if we need to found a city to gain it.
Or capture a city to gain it? ;)
 
Troops:
Move healthy units SW of Osaka to the SE and then to the East, keeping them in the forests. May want to move badly wounded cat4 along with them to help bombard.
Wounded units into Osaka to heal.
Units on the grass hill SE of Bombay to Osaka.
Hope that Cat attacks Osaka units and we can take that tile next and move a second stack SE towards whatever awaits.
Don't forget to promote axe in Osaka to medic, and suggest the next vat out of Vij goes to Pat.

Cities:
Delhi - Switch to Cat. If Scout moves towards Japan, keep building Cats. If Scout remains, next build an Axe, then back to Cats. Suggest you go ahead and build the axe. The scout is just going to be an irritant and it will provide experience.

Bombay - Grows this turn, so let it grow and whip next turn? Use overflow for another Cat. Better to whip 2 pop, so suggest you take citizen off a mine and onto the corn this turn and next, complete the cat, start another and whip 2 citizens. (Think that works.)

Vijay - Cat, Cat

Patalip - Cat, Cat

Varanasi - Cat, Worker? Has my vote.

Worker Actions:
As we are working nearly all improved tiles, and our road network is pretty solid, thinking we should consider farming and cottaging a few tiles near each city to allow us to change worked tiles whether we need pop growth or commerce? There's a forest to chop and then a hill to mine near Pat, and the hill NE of Bombay needs to be mined. Would give those some priority. Then, hopefully, there will be some work to do around Osaka.

Research:

Have re-thought my earlier post regarding research and now favor researching IW right away (ahead of Machinery, which is no good without Archery), because:
Iron may already be in our cultural borders, even already mined.
Though we need both Machinery and Archery for crossbows, swords would be available and helpful.
Alpha would allow us to turn hammers into research, so we would still have several options of tech(s) for peace -- Archery, Alpha, Sailing, and even Med if we want to go the Pacifism route for bulbing. {If not, then we definitely don't want Med.}

[BTW, also realize my errors in (1) suggesting a need for Monarchy, given the options of Rep and PS, and (2) in stating that a GProphet would come before a GE.


Thinking about moving ahead in about 20 hours from this post. Probably play 2 to 3 turns?
Sounds good.
 
Sorry it was real late when I noted on the member screen, that 2 other unknown Civs along with us, did not have any votes listed. So either they have not been discovered by AP resident or they do not have AP religion.

neal would have thought of this situationm and would not want any team to loose without having a chance to come up with a counter.
 
Agree with the plan, Leif.

It would make sense to put an AI more isolated (preferable the AI-Team as it's not going to fall behind that much), this would mean that we are pretty safe until Eliza finds them via optics or astro, i don't know if religion needs contact to spread, or astro, or both, or nothing.

Because we can't be 100% sure that this is the case we should proceed with the plan and be happy if we don't have to rely on the AI with this. Seeing the techpace of eliza i'd say we don't have that much time regardless.
 
Sorry it was real late when I noted on the member screen, that 2 other unknown Civs along with us, did not have any votes listed. So either they have not been discovered by AP resident or they do not have AP religion.

neal would have thought of this situationm and would not want any team to loose without having a chance to come up with a counter.
zamint's testing revealed that completing the AP means that the AP resident meets all the civs of the AP religion. Are you saying that the two unknown civs must not have the religion because they have not been met? :hmm:

What do you think z?
 
We can complete research on Machinery if we set the slider to 50% and consume 33 gold. Thinking the increase in power might help our overall situation?
Agree with this, Machinery counts as much as 4 spears (without the upkeep ;) )
I don't think binary research is important this late in the game in BTS.


Worker Actions:
As we are working nearly all improved tiles, and our road network is pretty solid, thinking we should consider farming and cottaging a few tiles near each city to allow us to change worked tiles whether we need pop growth or commerce?
Let the worker up north finish the defensive roading (deer and grass N of Pat) before moving on.
I suggest a cottage in the cities at the happy cap (Bombay and Delhi)
The two workers not moved could start a cottage SW of Delhi this turn and after that move on and farm around Vij where I would finish the cat and then, after 1 turn, 2-pop whip the already started library (OR or not :mischief:) and start running some scientists. :)


Bombay - Grows this turn, so let it grow and whip next turn? Use overflow for another Cat. Better to whip 2 pop, so suggest you take citizen off a mine and onto the corn this turn and next, complete the cat, start another and whip 2 citizens. (Think that works.)
I think you need to remove citizens from 2 mines for this to work. :crazyeye:


Thinking I should play a couple of turns, at least until we have sight of Toku's Capital.
Go ahead!
 
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