Challenge VII-09

[Ozbenno]

While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we are running a series of ten games called the Hall of Fame Challenge Series. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings of one of the games will be counted towards the Challenge.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Space Colony (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Emperor
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Standard
• Map Type: Pangaea
• Speed: Normal
• Required: One City Challenge, No Tribal Villages, No Random Events
• Must Not Be Checked: No Barbarians, Permanent Alliances
• Civ: Rome (Augustus Caesar)
• Opponents: Must include Byzantium (Justinian), England (Elizabeth), France (De Gaulle), Mali (Mansa Musa), Persia (Darius), Russia (Catherine)
• Version: 3.19.003
• Date: 7th February to 7th June 2012

The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

[AgedOne]

So ... Shulec ... You are the early leader!
Care to tell us about your game? How did it go? Did you smite anyone, or just outstrip em all on research? Or perhaps you kept them all in the stone age with constant attacks while you headed for the stars?
Just interested.

[shulec]

At AgedOne's prompting, I will share my strategy. I will not go into the basics, refer to these threads for the basics: Challenge I-Game 7, Challeng VI-Game 8, and G-Minor 133. Challenge I-Game 7 is the most similar to this game.

Mapfinder
I ran mapfinder for about 24 hours to get saves to choose from.

Game setup:

AI Opponents
Required Jerks: Catherine, DeGaulle, Justinian
Required Friends: Elizabeth, Darius, Mansa Musa

Following a dictum used in medicine: "The solution to pollution is dilution.", I added Gandhi, Frederick, Wang Kon and Pacal to dilute the jerks. Wang Kon and Pacal aren't overly friendly, but they are good tech traders.

Map Settings:

Since I added 4 AI, I chose low sea level to give the AI some space to expand and prosper so they could research well and trade me some techs. I chose the natural pangeaea setting (I am not sure if it is called "natural", but not "solid" or "pressed") to decrease the chances of multiple shared borders with the AI early on.

Diplomacy

I bribed anybody I could to war with Catherine. I was her worst enemy early on for trading with her worst emenies, then for religion. I joined the war when I was sure I was safe. (I had only two warriors and an archer for the whole game.) I also bribed war onto DeGaulle and Justinian when I had a firm tech lead. I became friendly or pleased with everybody else from trades and mutual wars.

Unique Building, Forum

I delayed aesthetics and Literature to research Currency to build the Forum for 25% more GPP. It timed out perfectly and I built the forum after the Pyramids and finished it the turn I got Literature. The was probably a bad idea and I should have let the AI research it for me.

Teching:
I got liberlism at 700 AD (T145 and selected Biology).
I got Medicine at 1000 AD on T 160
I researched Astromony after Medicine. This may have been a mistake.
I then went for Superconductors, then Rocketry. I built the Thrusters while researching Assembly Line, Industrialism, Plastics...

Great People and Golden Ages
I got only GScientists and GEngineers. I skipped Music, Economics and Communism. I missed the Taj Mahal. This hurt because I did build the MoM, and only got two GA.

Overall this was a fun game that I am sure I will do a few more times.

[AgedOne]

Thanks for such a clear and comprehensive write-up, shulec More than I expected!
(24 hours of MapFinder! My PCs would most likely melt. Hope it found you something to your liking.)

That's something I'm really not that experienced at: carefully controlled manipulation of wars against the selected Jerks. I really must have a practice!

[neilmeister]

24 hours of Mapfinder.....

I bet you had 10 river tiles, 2 corn, stone, 2 gold.... at least. Maybe throw in another gold and/or corn.

[Bugio]

GMinor 133 was really fun. I believe best time was late 1500's, granted was with best leader but i believe 1700something should be doable here. It's amazing how good micro can do, you'll never realize that till you push it to the extreme with OCC.

[shulec]

Originally Posted by neilmeister

24 hours of Mapfinder.....

I bet you had 10 river tiles, 2 corn, stone, 2 gold.... at least. Maybe throw in another gold and/or corn.

I had a good, but not phenomenal start.

Spoiler:

[neilmeister]

Originally Posted by shulec

I had a good, but not phenomenal start.

Spoiler:

I was close

11 river tiles, 2 corn/wheat, 2 gold, but no stone.......

I have tried this a few times, and DeGaulle or Justinian conquer me while I am building parts.

None of my attempts would beat your date though, even if no-one ever invaded me.

Back to the drawing board....

[neilmeister]

Had another attempt, 1904.

Bloody Catherine & DeGaulle keep attacking me...... just because I am trying to get the world to dogpile on them.

[Pollina]

I am cursed.

My start looked promising:

Spoiler:

1 corn, 3 riverside elephants, 4 riverside gems and copper in BFC, iron close enough, Cathy and de Gaulle in a comfortable distance

All was well until
- My first worker decided to suicide around 2000 BC.
- I got 5 Great Artists and a Great Prophet, each at probabilities below 10%.
- Wang Kong DOWed me when I had but a warrior as city garrison.

I still won the game (not too difficult with a start like that), but my finish date could have been so much better…

[AgedOne]

I got round to trying this one, but it didn't work out well.

Start was 2xGold, Cow, 2xSeafood, some hills, rivers, floodplains - so middling rather than good.

Didn't add any extras, forgetting shulec's good advice. My location was at the western end of the continent, and Liz was my nearest neighbour. She was some distance away, and had space to expand into. This was a benefit for her, as she ended up a massive civ, dominating everyone else.

I built the Gt Wall to keep the barbs off. This could have been a time waste, but the pollution of the GP pool wasn't a factor. I went on to miss out on Oracle to someone who had marble . I did get the Gt Library and Gt Lighthouse, but missed the Colossus by 2 turns .

Altogether, my research was just too slow. I could have had Liberalism, but only taking Astro, so I continued research in the hope of taking Sci Method or even Biology from it, but then very suddenly everyone else had finished Education and I had to cut and run. Too late!! I was pipped the Liberalism by 2 turns . This was 1100AD, you realise, so I hadn't been over rapid on the research.

As expected, the 3 friends continually warred with the 3 jerks. I joined in the wars, being ideally placed behind the protective mass of Elizabeth's troops. The 3 friends were friendly virtually throughout, and the 3 jerks were furious.
Maybe I messed up again, right at the start, by allowing vassals. This led to a complicated series of vassalisations, both voluntary and otherwise - all the way through. I think only Louis got wiped out. Justinian and Catherine ended up capitulating to Elizabeth.
Mansa and Darius were vassals of Liz at one time or another, but ended up free.

I still thought I was doing reasonably, but Liz completed her Apollo about 6 turns ahead of me, and then she just ran away with the end game! Her empire consisted of about 20 large cities, and I couldn't compete.
Chasing a lost cause, I tried to get the Internet, but she swiped that from under my nose too.
I got to Fusion first, but it was all over by then really.

She launched in about 1905, and won the game when I just had a cockpit & a half-constructed engine to my name. Sad ending.

Looking at the finish dates that have been posted so far, I can see that a couple of them would have been OK but another couple would have lost to Liz in my game.
I need to slow the AI down somehow, or have the game won by 1900 if I don't!

I'm wondering about the additional AI, and turning off Vassals, for my next attempt.

[cas]

Originally Posted by shulec

Diplomacy

I bribed anybody I could to war with Catherine. I was her worst enemy early on for trading with her worst emenies, then for religion. I joined the war when I was sure I was safe. (I had only two warriors and an archer for the whole game.) I also bribed war onto DeGaulle and Justinian when I had a firm tech lead. I became friendly or pleased with everybody else from trades and mutual wars.

Teching:
I got liberlism at 700 AD (T145 and selected Biology).
I got Medicine at 1000 AD on T 160
I researched Astromony after Medicine. This may have been a mistake.
I then went for Superconductors, then Rocketry. I built the Thrusters while researching Assembly Line, Industrialism, Plastics...

That bribe to war strat works well to avoid AI DoW and increase the tech trades, but can have a bad ending since all the AI get overly friendly with each other. Had a late 1800's game on track for the win and got blind-sided with a diplo loss ~1820AD. This strat might require building the UN in some games to control the diplo voting.

Your dates on Bio/Med are tough to beat. Especially only 15 turns between the two. Did you burn GS for bulbs or settle all ? I only burned the one for partial Education bulb.

cas

[shulec]

Originally Posted by cas

That bribe to war strat works well to avoid AI DoW and increase the tech trades, but can have a bad ending since all the AI get overly friendly with each other. Had a late 1800's game on track for the win and got blind-sided with a diplo loss ~1820AD. This strat might require building the UN in some games to control the diplo voting.

Your dates on Bio/Med are tough to beat. Especially only 15 turns between the two. Did you burn GS for bulbs or settle all ? I only burned the one for partial Education bulb.

cas

I settled most, if not all GS. I played the game so long ago I don't remember. It took me 9 turns to get Education, if I bulbed, this would have been the only one. I am sure you know the numbers better than I do and can tell me if I bulbed toward education or not! I am thinking with 9 turns, I didn't bulb education.

[cas]

Originally Posted by shulec

I settled most, if not all GS. I played the game so long ago I don't remember. It took me 9 turns to get Education, if I bulbed, this would have been the only one. I am sure you know the numbers better than I do and can tell me if I bulbed toward education or not! I am thinking with 9 turns, I didn't bulb education.

9 turn Edu would require (edit) ~310bpt...not sure that's possible at that point in the game. Probably 1 bulb for Edu in there.

cas

[shulec]

Originally Posted by cas

9 turn Edu would require (edit) ~310bpt...not sure that's possible at that point in the game. Probably 1 bulb for Edu in there.

cas

I confirmed in the 1AD save I had one settled GS, and an academy from three GS. So I did bulb Education.

[lymond]

arrrgh! I had a game close to Neil's finish but I gambled on 1 casing/10 turns. The mission failed. First time I've ever failed a mission, but then I usually build all the parts. Had a pretty sweet start and aluminum, but did some things wrong. I'm just not get the Lib/Bio setup fast enough. Ok...now for attempt number 47. I do much better with Philo leaders. The wonder whoring I think really detracts from the game, other than the key wonders, ofc.

Dealing with Cathy and DeG is hilarious.

[cas]

I squeezed into (currently) 2nd place by using only 4 casings / 80% chance of success. I considered risking 1 casing / 20% chance to beat WastinTime by 1 turn, but wanted to get a score on the board.

The start had 4 gems, stone, rivers, forest...but only one food resource (grass cow) so not ideal. Science was fast, but I was really hurting for specs until Bio and sushi.

On the plus side, Eliz had two marble so I was able to get the marble wonders I wanted faster...except for Taj because DeGaulle pillaged the quarries.

Wars against DeGaulle / Cathy / WK made for friendly status with most AI and kept everyone off my back. Built UN this time and controlled the secretary seat so I wouldn't lose to diplo again. Justinian spread his religion like crazy but not to 1-2 AI...otherwise I'd have lost to AP in the middle ages.

I'll definitely play this one again if I can roll a slightly better BFC (less gem / more food).

cas