CFC TG1: Calling All Settler, Chieftain, and Warlord Players

lurker's comment:

lurker's comment:
I'm dubious about the value of that road. It's going to cost 5 gpt maintenance, and for the initial small cities it only generates 3 gpt. As mentioned, cash is limiting still. It's not a military concern, as all the horses will be on Siam's border already when hostilities start.

Something I do like doing with early workers (once worked tiles are improved) is clear random forests. They're 30 resources each, even if they're not yet within your cultural borders.

Since you'll have a second city soon, you'll probably want a second worker pretty soon. Now, I like building a monument first in newly founded cities, so that city won't be able to build a worker for a long time. That's why I often build a second worker in my starting city right after building the settler.

Yeah this is true. There's also the whole "prechop" deal. You can start chopping 2 turns before your settler drops the city, and when you do finish chopping, those production go to that city.


Edit: however, pretty sure forests are only 20, and only give 13 or less when outside borders.
 
Once the worker has completed the road it should head to the horse tile to improve the horse. Remember, we'll have to buy that tile, assuming we go with the spot the warrior is at.

One thing that needs to be discussed is where to place our second city. If everyone could please take a look at either the save, or the screenshot below and state where you feel we should settle and why? Remember, Sukhothai will soon be our third city, so take that into consideration.



Something else to consider is how best to attack Sukhothai. Open tiles provide a -33% to our combat strength and hills provide +25%. While I don't expect to have to deal with many units, we'll still have to deal with the city's ability to bombard. What's nice is it has another four horses, bringing us up to eight.



Another thing to consider is our build plans. Recall that we will be pushing for an invasion very quickly. What do you all feel would be the units we would want to invade with and how would you plan the invasion?

Current Roster
  • Methos
  • Centerfinger
  • Aldor - Just Played
  • Sindri Pink - Up!
  • shanodin - On Deck
  • eris
 
I think that we should settle where the warrior is, since we'll eventually get access to some hills if we do. The horse tile won't be very expensive to buy since better hexes are cheaper. We don't want to get too near to Rio because there will be the issue of who expands into the space first. Coming at Sukhothai from the North/West would be best, otherwise we'd be attacking across a river on open tiles.

As for build queue, we need to make sure that Rome can start building units asap. for our invasion force. Our second city will probably want a monument, and a granary never goes amiss either.
 
Ok, I've got the save, but I'm a bit to tired right now to even think, so I'll look into everything tomorrow morning and start playing as soon as we've agreed on what to do.
 
lurker's comment: Personally I would attack sukhotai from the southwest. What you want is to be able to have several plains in between you and the city, ideally ending turn on the hills.Just make sure you declare war AFTER you cross the river. This may involve taking a slight detour or paying for open borders. Attacking via north is more of a legions way of doing it.
 
Coming at Sukhothai from the North/West would be best, otherwise we'd be attacking across a river on open tiles.

Remember, you're attacking with horses. If you come in from the southwest, then you start outside his territory. (One horse on a forest, one on a hill, two tiles away from the city). Declare war. The horses move in, attack, and move out, beyond retaliatory range. Second turn, they move in and attack again, and that should get the city.
 
How many horses do we want to build for the attack? Two, three? Or all four? That'd take a rather long time, and he might build another city in the meantime. I think we'll need at least 3 units, but we might have a warrior in there too.

We have 9 turns left before HBR. Building a monument would take 10 turns. Warrior should be 7-8 turns. I'd love a monument but if we're going to war it can't hurt to have an extra unit around, so I'd vote for the warrior.

I'd attack Sukhotai mainly from the east. Park one horse on the forest east of the river, another south of it. First horse moves over river (2 turns left), attacks and then moves to forest or hill northeast of Sukhotai. Then other repeats that. A third horse (and/or warrior?) can attack from the south.
 
lurker's comment: Two horses should be enough. Rome could produce the third one in case. If you follow Creepy advice you should take the city in two turns.
 
lurker's comment:
Personally, I would settle SW of the horses, to allow for another city inbetween later. That's going for a densely packed citygrid though.

As for attacking Sukhotai, remember that the horses' main strength is being able to run away after attacking. use those plains to come storming in, strike the city, and move to defensive terrain. Never leave your horses in a position where they can be counterattacked by units (city bombard doesn't really hurt that bad).

As for number of attackers; three horsemen can take a city in one round; two horses should be enough for a first blitz.
 
Quite an interesting game here.Will be lurking.Lets see if it will come close to my first rome game on King :)
 
I am still going to argue for a monument in Rome. I heard reinforcement from one lurker that monument is first or early build in new cities. Building one in Rome saves all those other cities hammers to build their monuments. You gotta take advantage of your UA or why have one?

I probably would settle where the warrior is. I am open on that discussion for any clues. From the general pace of things, we would be able to put out horse units right after the monument. Does anyone like horse archers as siege that can keep up with other horses?

Setting up a road this early is really strange to me. I have never done that.
 
About the road: its how I played so far, on warlord level, building roads asap. However, I learned (from this game!) that on warlord level you only pay 75% road maintainence, while from prince up its 100%. The trade route gives 1gpt + (1.25gpt * number of citizens in the connected city), so with five length (5gpt maint.) our second city needs 4 citizens for the route to become profitable. I didn't realize this when I started the road, sorry.
 
I concur with settling where the warrior is at or a tile or two south. Not sure what to build while we are waiting for HBR, I suppose a warrior would be good and would be done in time to get going on a horseman right in time. I generally don't use warriors much at all, but I'd hate to overlap a couple of turns waiting for a monument to finish before getting going on the horseman. I think the horseman from Rome attacks from the north and the new cities horseman comes in from the south. I'm pretty sure 2 horseman will be fine to take the city.
 
Remember that our goal is an early attack against one of our neighbors and building a monument before our invasion forces only gives our opponent more time to build more units and/or a second city.

Out of curiosity I tried a deity game with Greece using the horse rush and after taking the capital (turn 56) and their second city on I believe turn 59 or 60, I found Monte had two other cities besides the two I had just conquered. While we're only playing on king difficulty level, remember that the AI has bonuses towards production and other stuff compared to us.
 
lurker's comment:
Spoiler RE: Pact of Secrecy: :
I have read someone mention that the pact hurts your relationship with the civ it is formed against (i.e. pact with Monty against Lizzy makes Lizzy mad.) Based on my experience this seems to be true. I have noticed marked declines in relationships with civs I formed pacts against. As an aside, this appears to be an instant penalty, so apparently no one's government is worth a d*** at keeping a secret.


Spoiler Monument in Rome :
I am still going to argue for a monument in Rome. I heard reinforcement from one lurker that monument is first or early build in new cities. Building one in Rome saves all those other cities hammers to build their monuments. You gotta take advantage of your UA or why have one?

I think the intention is for early production to all go toward units. After the early conquest wraps up, I agree that starting with a build in Rome would likely be wise, of course it begs the question about whether the savings in build time is worth the potential waste in capital production.


Spoiler RE: location of second city: :
I lean toward placement ON the horses. This allows the group to leave the worker around the capital while immediately allowing work to begin on the horsemen, creates one side of a land lock between the CS to the SE and Mt. Fuji (?) (the other side being a city placed on the plains west of Fuji), allows you four hexes of production, and leaves space for another city northeast of the second town. The combination makes a very defensible position to the south which could be important to beat Bismark.

In fact, another city on the opposite side of the those mountains could totally lock Bismark south, forcing a break through if he wishes to continue growth. The entire area could be defended by two to four units being supported by the cities.


Spoiler RE: War: :
Siam has a good location and is not as easily contained as Germany. I'd start with Siam with military forces, while blocking in Germany if possible.


FYI: I did win my first King game over the weekend, so I guess I can now feel secure in the fact that I should NOT be on your docket of players.
 
I'd attack Sukhotai mainly from the east. Park one horse on the forest east of the river, another south of it. First horse moves over river (2 turns left), attacks and then moves to forest or hill northeast of Sukhotai. Then other repeats that. A third horse (and/or warrior?) can attack from the south.

lurker's comment:
Crossing a river removes all movement points from a unit. You'd end up on the tile immediately west of the river and be unable to move farther. That's why it's so important to cross rivers prior to Dow, if possible.
 
If we're not building a monument while waiting for HBR, what are we building? I'm not convinced one more warrior is going to help the plan. I leave it to group opinion and the turn owner.

I wouldn't have done it that way, but I like the plan to attack from the south east and using the open land as a run in, attack, and retreat field. It might take a turn or two to set up, but it could be well worth it. I would like four horses. (Or else three horses and another well on the way.) If there is a second city, we should be able to take that one, too. It might be a good thing, especially if that second city is somewhere along that river.
 
Personally, I'd build another warrior, as we'll want one warrior at the front to deal with any units Siam throws at us. Other units I'd take would be a chariot archer and at least two horsemen. The archer isn't really needed, as I tend to find the horsemen do more damage then the chariot archer does. The reason I'd build a second warrior is so that we have one warrior hanging around our cities just in case Siam has a unit nearby, or barbs come calling.
 
lurker's comment:
The reason I'd build a second warrior is so that we have one warrior hanging around our cities just in case Siam has a unit nearby, or barbs come calling.

That plus the warrior can be upgraded later to make a legion, so opportunities to get XP now can be huge later.
 
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