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Ahriman said:

I'm happy to change the Screamers design to fill an aircraft role; it could be a weak, short-range bomber.
The disc doesn't really seem particularly sensible or useful.

As for Fell Bats, they're already in the design.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=291659

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Why do you insist on making air units weak. If anything, Sreamers should be increadably strong bomber units (comparable to vanila civ Stelth Bombers) and only avalable with the portal of change.

Isen't the entire point of chaos to have crazily strong late units (greater demons, demon princes,... and such) and to balance it, a weak economy and urban structure, weak city healt and the like.

PS. Have you decided on a model for the demon prince, couse I have aquired some models from the WH 40K pc game and the demons there are quite interesting if only someone could work them over to attach to normal unit models.

Why do you insist on making air units weak

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Because aircraft in the civ engine have the potential to be massively unbalanced, particularly when only a handful of civs have good access to them. Think how massively powerful bombers are in vanilla civ when the other player doesn't have access to any aircraft. They are a game-changing unit that can win you the game by themselves, basically making you immune to any invasion and making it so you hardly lose any units on offense; and, unlike magic or siege units, they have range and flexibility.

Also, keep in mind that the strength of a bomber unit matters only when it is intercepted; it doesn't really directly effect how much damage it does.
So, aircraft units need to be weak enough that they take significant damage or die when intercepted by archer or aircraft units.

Scereamers are in the same unit slot as the other demons (bloodletters, daemonettes, plaguebearers and screamers). The screamer thus needs to have similar power to the other 3 units - and no other single unit can be as game-changing as a bomber.

Isen't the entire point of chaos to have crazily strong late units (greater demons, demon princes,... and such) and to balance it, a weak economy and urban structure, weak city health and the like.

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No, chaos factions will have a similar economy to other factions (though without any of the nice booster traits like financial, agricultural, industrial, imperialistic, organized, etc.), and their late-game nits shouldn't be particularly more powerful than those of other factions. However, if they just go for the chaos magics line, then they miss out on economy things from the trade and infrastructure lines
Greater demons should be on an order of magnitude to dragons, and lesser demons to the other powerful tier3 units (knights, handgunners, etc.).

The most likely candiate for a demon prince model is the Hyborem model from FFH. If that thing isn't a Bloodthirster I don't know what is, but definitely post anything in particular that you have.

PS. Have you decided on a model for the demon prince, couse I have aquired some models from the WH 40K pc game and the demons there are quite interesting if only someone could work them over to attach to normal unit models.

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Please share! we only really have the pink horrors, and bloodthirster deamons at the moment. deamon models are going to be the hardest to find/make i think... (note to self: i really need to learn to rig a 3d model propperly...)

Psychic_Llamas said:

Please share! we only really have the pink horrors, and bloodthirster deamons at the moment. deamon models are going to be the hardest to find/make i think... (note to self: i really need to learn to rig a 3d model propperly...)

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I can extract the models but am unable to rig them. The game has a excelent horor unit, but also Blodthirster and Demon prince units. The demon prince is simply apocalipticly cool.
I am going to extract and upload them here if I can. But I need someone else to rig them to animations.

And Ahriman, when I say strong, I meen strong in terms of damage it can do to land units. Not strong in terms of interseption. All fliers should be cripling to unprotected ground units, but easy to intercept.

OK, I've been playing as Woodelves for just over 1100 turns and thought Id give some feedback.

Firstly, as woodelves get no catapult, they are quite disadvantaged in the early stages of the game - I know in the later game they get treekin etc that can bombard cities, but in the early stages, when everyones trying to secure some resources and war occurs when theres a lack of space, woodelves are not great at attacking cities - obviously all civs quickly get early game units and then with good fortification bonus (25% for unit, plus any land defence - plus city defence - plus any unit promotion defence - we have something where woodelves become little threat to other civs cities (if these civs are relatively strong or play sensibly). It would be nice if they had some sort of early seige unit or if an existing early-game unit could bombard city defences.

Secondly, I dont know what the prerequisite is for wartatoos, as theres no entry in the civpedia yet, but I cant get them. I dont know if woodelves are allowed to get wartatoos, which I was suspecting as I progressed through the game, but then when I got gladeguard - they're allowed to use wartatoos..but I dont have them or know how to get them if I can, so just thought Id mention it.

Thirdly, magic, my spellsinger, or weaver, cannot get access to magic I've researched. It has lore of Athel Loren and Raw Magic, but I've researched the other three (jade magic, lore of beasts and another) I was allowed to on the tech and cannot get my units to use that magic even though they keep getting promoted - every time the unit gets promoted I have to upgrade its physical strength and then thats it. Dont know whats going on there.

Fourthly, I know theres quite a lot of health around - but I've found that theres lots more happiness than health bonuses - yet quite a few buildings give unhealthy and if you dont have a large empire that encorporates a few of cows, pigs, sheep etc then it becomes a problem, even after trading resources because quite a few are +2 health if you own them and only +1 if you're importing - it would be nice if either slaughterhouse didnt give +1 unhealthy, or if trees gave some sort of health bonus - like a % of health (if thats possible), or if there was just another building that gave some sort of health. Just a suggestion - you guys may feel health is already adequate.

Finally, this is just a woodelf visual/cosmetic thing and may be changing already, but since woodelves can build farms on forests without destroying them - it would be nice to have some trees still showing after the build, instead of just the farm but stating on the land description that its still forest. No real worry there at all though.

In regards to the game, it flows really well so great stuff!!! Can't wait for patch b!

For wartatoos you need to have a dye resource.

Nice one, thanks!

It would be nice if they had some sort of early seige unit or if an existing early-game unit could bombard city defences.

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Well, this is a deliberate design... wood elves are very defensive, the whole point of not giving them catapults is to make them less offensive in the early game.

Though, as it stands, they still have incredibly offensive power by using the level 1 spells on their mages, which do stack damage (and probably still need to be toned down a little).

Thirdly, magic, my spellsinger, or weaver, cannot get access to magic I've researched

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This is a bug which should be fixed in the next patch; beast magic, life magic etc. currently requires High Magic I; it needs to be changed so that its High Magic I OR Athel Lore Magic I.

But Athel Loren magic is still pretty damn good!
Note that one of the level 2 spells also summons a unit that can bombard.

Finally, this is just a woodelf visual/cosmetic thing and may be changing already

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I'm no graphics expert, but my understanding is that this is actually annoying and difficult to fix. We're using the same forest/farm graphics as FFH; if that team can't fix it, I doubt we can either.

Firstly, as woodelves get no catapult,

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as ahriman says this is deliberate. their main city-braking power comes from the spells treesinging and fury of the forest and the twilight host (who can bombard fortifications)

Secondly, I dont know what the prerequisite is for wartatoos

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dyes

Thirdly, magic, my spellsinger, or weaver, cannot get access to magic I've researched

This is a bug which should be fixed in the next patch; beast magic, life magic etc. currently requires High Magic I; it needs to be changed so that its High Magic I OR Athel Lore Magic I.

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ah ill try get this fixed. ta

Finally, this is just a woodelf visual/cosmetic thing and may be changing already

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i did guve the WE a Orchard farm replacement that didnt get rid of any forest, but we decided against it for simplicities sake.

or if trees gave some sort of health bonus - like a % of health

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they already do, and ancient forests more so.

Hi, great mod in progress this one but I'm having some real difficulties playing. I'm using the 1.5 version with Patch A on the XP operating system, getting many instances where the game just closes down with no error message. I have done the python change so it should show errors.

Hi, great mod in progress this one but I'm having some real difficulties playing. I'm using the 1.5 version with Patch A on the XP operating system, getting many instances where the game just closes down with no error message. I have done the python change so it should show errors.

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hey Naxzulas, and welcome to civ fanatics!

how frequently does the game crash for you? is it usually after a common number of turns? i have noticed this too and many people have pointed out such crashes as well. for a short term solution ive found that reloading and changing what you did in that turn often prevents the CTD. if this is the case (which it sometimes is not) it would help us in tracking the bug if you posted what you changed to prevent the CTD.

im glad you like the mod

Thanks for the welcome, it always occurs at the change between turn ie. pressing end turn and it closes. I haven't been able to play as orcs since it seems like it just closes on the first turn by default, with sylvania I could play for a short while then I got the same error. I'm gonna give it a shot with an autosave each turn and see if I can affect it by doing something different.

Here are some screens I've taken of error messages.

I got a request, since Warhammer Online was already been released the past 3 months, will it be ok to change the title song to the Warhammer Online title song? I don't know how to get the song itself as all music is in this different file type.

I also recommand that we need a bit of darker graphics. If there is any chaos in the map, all the terrain around that area should transform into a "chaos infected lands". If you got Warhammer Online, and play as chaos, you know what I mean. When I was playing Warhammer 40K, the chaos lands causes a increase on health regain, and decreases morale, so if that's the case, I recommended that chaos lands here give a -10% heal to enemies that enter that land, and if your troops gain a health regain bonus.

also about water naval, The Dark Elves got this boat called "The Black Ark" and it' as big as a aircraft carrier but a bit more wide. If you can get your graphic artist team to develop that, then you can add it to the game. Also the Dark Elves cities have a unique architecture, if your graphic artist team have not done so, I recommend try to make those and place them to the Dark Elves cities and cottages and whatnot.

I got a request, since Warhammer Online was already been released the past 3 months, will it be ok to change the title song to the Warhammer Online title song? I don't know how to get the song itself as all music is in this different file type.

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ive never heard it, but i think i would agree to this if someone can get ahold of it for me. i dont own warhammer online dosnt really matter what format, i can convert it.

I also recommand that we need a bit of darker graphics. If there is any chaos in the map, all the terrain around that area should transform into a "chaos infected lands". If you got Warhammer Online, and play as chaos, you know what I mean. When I was playing Warhammer 40K, the chaos lands causes a increase on health regain, and decreases morale, so if that's the case, I recommended that chaos lands here give a -10% heal to enemies that enter that land, and if your troops gain a health regain bonus.

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this was decided a while ago, its just waiting to be implemented.

also about water naval, The Dark Elves got this boat called "The Black Ark" and it' as big as a aircraft carrier but a bit more wide. If you can get your graphic artist team to develop that, then you can add it to the game. Also the Dark Elves cities have a unique architecture, if your graphic artist team have not done so, I recommend try to make those and place them to the Dark Elves cities and cottages and whatnot.

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find me pictures of these and i (the current graphics team ) will make them.

I have an annoying problem that I know other people have mentioned on here as well. My game just stops whilst Im waiting for other civs to complete their turns. It doesn't crash, It actually snaps out of carrying out the AI's turn and then focuses on one particular spot on the map each time Ive tried to replay the turn, which is incidently a group of bretonian workers doing an automated task. When this happens I can move the mouse all around the map but not click on anything, however you can still click on the toolbar on the top right of the screen and change things there or even save the game at that point etc.
I did actually try and save the game but on reload it comes up as if its still processing the AI turn. It continuously happens on turn 1193 no matter what I change, unit moves, make peace, declare war....just really annoying!

very interesting Ronin. so mid way between the ai turn the game zooms to a group of automated bretonian workers (are they AI owned or yours?) no events pop up do they? this could potentially be very helpful.

@ Orlanth: are there any events that require bretonian workers? if so perhaps it is bugged.

View attachment Ed IC 2174.CivBeyondSwordSave

Here's the saved game of my turn just before it happens - you'll see how the loading of the AI's turn just seems to snap out and then focus on a group of bretonian workers. The workers are not doing anything in particular, just working the land - they are the AI's workers not mine and I have events disabled for this game so no event should cause this I dont think.

Anyway I hope the upload of my saved game worked properly, if not let me know.

I do have snap backs as well when I end my turns as well, the map turns to somewhere in the undiscovered land and snap back into my nation's capital... when that happens, I was expecting an event on something eerie. So I guess it was a minor bug then...

Also I will get the black ark pictures from both the game, and concept art that people made, just give me a second.

this picture is one of the screenshots taken on the ships that the dark elves use to assault the high elves grounds. The big ship in the background is part of the Black Ark.


another picture of the section to board and unboard


The base near the Black Ark



Left is the High Elf Swordmaster, and the right is a Dark Elf Corsair



A Witch Elf and another Ship

I do have snap backs as well when I end my turns as well, the map turns to somewhere in the undiscovered land and snap back into my nation's capital

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I'm fairly sure that this is caused by an event happening in someone else's territory, no?