Vokarya's Workshop: Wonders

45°38'N-13°47'E;13057581 said:
Sure, and I think that's why it's not permitted. I meant I don't see a reason besides cheating.:)
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I got curious and did some research. It was Affores him self who turn that feature off.
May 24 2010 to be exactly;) There was founding hospital national wonder and possibility to abuse that made Affores change ctrl +A for NWs.

My point is that national wonders are really not wonders, most of the later ones are just buildings without any "wonder" in them. I understand that demolishing Heroic Epic sounds dumm but I see no reason why I cant replace my computer center or some health effect building etc..

National wonder build "prize" effects shouldnt be so powerful that demolishing and rebuilding just for them is smart but demolishing and rebuilding different location for example health or areal effect reasons should be possible. Thats what we do in RL:)
 
rtt4a said:
I got curious and did some research. It was Affores him self who turn that feature off.
May 24 2010 to be exactly;) There was founding hospital national wonder and possibility to abuse that made Affores change ctrl +A for NWs.

My point is that national wonders are really not wonders, most of the later ones are just buildings without any "wonder" in them. I understand that demolishing Heroic Epic sounds dumm but I see no reason why I cant replace my computer center or some health effect building etc..

National wonder build "prize" effects shouldnt be so powerful that demolishing and rebuilding just for them is smart but demolishing and rebuilding different location for example health or areal effect reasons should be possible. Thats what we do in RL:)
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Well, that way you would take away all the planning in developing your cities because of the wonders limit. But you can always play with Unlimited Wonders. ;)
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;13057646 said:
Well, that way you would take away all the planning in developing your cities because of the wonders limit. But you can always play with Unlimited Wonders. ;)
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True. Or you could tell me how I change that little thing in my personal AND2 final version in some distant future:) Better yet if you make it BUG option:lol: I play gigantic maps, in 100 city empire NW limits are not issue but bad placement often is..
 
rtt4a said:
True. Or you could tell me how I change that little thing in my personal AND2 final version in some distant future:) Better yet if you make it BUG option:lol: I play gigantic maps, in 100 city empire NW limits are not issue but bad placement often is..
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It's in the dll I fear... so either we revise every NW so that their effects can't be exploited by cheating discarding and rebuilding them somewhere else and we teach AI to use this feature, or you need to learn how to place NW better or live with your current placement ability. What do you think it's easier to happen? :p
 
Or it may be possible to get a new category of building, like "special buildings" which have the same limit as national wonders, but which can be destroyed ?
 
dbkblk said:
Or it may be possible to get a new category of building, like "special buildings" which have the same limit as national wonders, but which can be destroyed ?
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Something like that would be great. This is only an idea but maybe some "non-wonderish" national wonders could just work like palace? You could rebuild it in another city if certain prerequisites are met but you dont get any extra benefits for doing that and there can be only one in empire. Relocation is possible but need x-mount of prerequisite buildings and you pay hammercost again so careful planning is still important;)

I can contribute a list of national wonders that are merely special buildings (no symbol/cultural value etc.)? After that it would be only some 1 / 0 /-1 changes in building class infos:)
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;13057719 said:
It's in the dll I fear... so either we revise every NW so that their effects can't be exploited by cheating discarding and rebuilding them somewhere else and we teach AI to use this feature, or you need to learn how to place NW better or live with your current placement ability. What do you think it's easier to happen? :p
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I was under the belief that it was never possible to rebuild a destroyed National Wonder. That's why I wanted all of the resource-providers to have 3 copies available; if you lost one, you weren't stuck without that resource for the rest of the game. Is that built into the code at some level?
 
Vokarya said:
I was under the belief that it was never possible to rebuild a destroyed National Wonder. That's why I wanted all of the resource-providers to have 3 copies available; if you lost one, you weren't stuck without that resource for the rest of the game. Is that built into the code at some level?
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To tell the truth, I also thought it's not possible to rebuild a destroyed National Wonder. But given the previous discussion I've thought that someone has proven otherwise. I've never tried myself tough, but it should be quick enough to give it a try.
 
Here is another set of tweaks that I would like to do before my next upload, and that is to standardize the Great Person Points of wonders. The general rule is that World Wonders provide +2 GPP, Corporation HQ's provide +1, and National Wonders provide +1. I'd like to do the World Wonders and Corporations, because there are a lot of them that don't fit this system. Here is what I would be doing:

Adding Great Person Points
  • Global Stock Exchange: +2 Merchant
  • Nanite Defuser: +2 Engineer
  • Sun Tzu's Art of War: +2 Spy
  • Technological Capital: +2 Scientist
  • Terracotta Army: +2 Artist
  • The Brihadeeswarar Temple: +2 Prophet
  • Women's Suffrage: +2 Artist

Increase from 1 to 2 GPP
  • Alhambra
  • Circus Maximus
  • Masada
  • Olympic Games
  • Palace of Potala
  • Plato's Academy
  • Silk Road
  • Temple of Heaven
  • Theatre of Dionysus

Other
  • Lower National Shield from +4 to +2
  • Lower Piazza San Marco from +3 to +2 and switch from Artist to Merchant
  • Lower Red Curtains Theatre HQ from +2 to +1
  • Lower SnowCastle of Kemi from +6 to +2
  • Change Mapster to produce Great Spy points (it currently produces points towards a regular Spy)

I will leave Ascension Gate as the one Wonder that doesn't produce GPP, as it either wins you the game or gives you a huge bonus to a Mastery victory.

I'll do National Wonders next. I think the resource-producing National Wonders should be +0 GPP and the others +1 each.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;13068078 said:
To tell the truth, I also thought it's not possible to rebuild a destroyed National Wonder. But given the previous discussion I've thought that someone has proven otherwise. I've never tried myself tough, but it should be quick enough to give it a try.
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Of course you can rebuild. There is a reason why World Wonders are Nuke Immune but National ones are not.
 
(just moved this post over here)

One more brainstorming idea:

National Horsebreeder
  • NW (limit 1 or 3?)
  • requires horse
  • provides horse
  • +Xp for mounted units (in city / every city?)
  • put it somewhere in the renaissance era

It may look strange that it both requires and provides horse, but the aim in it is to provide all civs with horses if thay can get one, either by trade or by conquest.
What do you think of it?
 
2 more ideas based on Coldwar

Iron curtain
  • NW
  • requires Communism tech
  • works like The Great Wall
  • barbarians cannot enter borders on continent (I think at this point of the game they rearly mean serious threat anyway)
  • helps twart rival spies on continent
  • maybe +:espionage: point or %
  • -1or2 trade routes in all cities
  • req. civic to be active
I wonder if it could also provide a graphic affect similar to the Great Wall's. What would happen when one switches the required civic off than later on, but his borders have expanded. How would the walls behave?


KGB
World project
+:espionage: points or % in all cities
+1 GreatSpy
twarts all rival spies within borders (one time effect ofcourse)
 
Sogroon said:
2 more ideas based on Coldwar

Iron curtain
  • NW
  • requires Communism tech
  • works like The Great Wall
  • barbarians cannot enter borders on continent (I think at this point of the game they rearly mean serious threat anyway)
  • helps twart rival spies on continent
  • maybe +:espionage: point or %
  • -1or2 trade routes in all cities
  • req. civic to be active
I wonder if it could also provide a graphic affect similar to the Great Wall's. What would happen when one switches the required civic off than later on, but his borders have expanded. How would the walls behave?
Click to expand...

I don't want to do this one, but I do want to do Berlin Wall. It would actually appear at Globalization and require running the Fascist civic.

Sogroon said:
KGB
World project
+:espionage: points or % in all cities
+1 GreatSpy
twarts all rival spies within borders (one time effect ofcourse)
Click to expand...

The last ability is a good one, but the wonder I have in mind is The Agency (Call to Power II) and it comes available at Communication Networks.
 
So I went through the National Wonders as well. Leaving out the National Wonders that produce resources, there are a lot of National Wonders that are missing GPP and I would like to add them.

Here are the changes I would like to make in the next build.
Adding +GPP
  • Amusement Park: +1 Merchant
  • Communications Satellite: +1 Merchant
  • Computer Center: +1 Scientist
  • Crafts Guild Hall: +1 Engineer
  • Deep Space Research Institute: +1 Scientist
  • Flak Tower: +1 Engineer
  • Fusion Power Plant: +1 Engineer
  • Houses of Parliament: +1 Spy
  • Labor Union: +1 Engineer
  • Medical Clinic: +1 Scientist
  • Military Satellites: +1 Spy
  • Mind Storage: +1 Scientist
  • National Mint: +1 Merchant
  • National TV Station: +1 Artist
  • Orbital Hotel: +1 Merchant
  • Royal Tournament: +1 Artist
  • Secret Army Base: +1 Spy
  • Servants Guild Hall: +1 Merchant
  • Space Laboratory: +1 Scientist
  • Supreme Court: +1 Spy
  • Temple of Isis: +1 Prophet
  • Temple of Osiris: +1 Prophet
  • Temple of Set: +1 Prophet
  • The Manhattan Project: +1 Scientist
  • Treasury: +1 Merchant
  • Victuallers Guild Hall: +1 Merchant

Lower from 2 GPP to 1
  • Centers for Disease Control
  • National Weather Service
  • Radio Telescope
  • Silicon Valley
  • Supercollider
  • World Bank
 
Vokarya said:
(...)but I do want to do Berlin Wall. It would actually appear at Globalization and require running the Fascist civic.
Click to expand...
Well... err... err... I don't know...
I doubt that any civ wold build such a wonder for itself.
The wall was in Berlin but against Berlin and not by Berlin. It's like building a negative wonder in a foreign city, but in game that is not possible AFAIK.
So... what would it do?

The last ability is a good one, but the wonder I have in mind is The Agency (Call to Power II) and it comes available at Communication Networks.
Click to expand...
I am not familiar with Call to Power II.
 
Sogroon said:
Well... err... err... I don't know...
I doubt that any civ wold build such a wonder for itself.
The wall was in Berlin but against Berlin and not by Berlin. It's like building a negative wonder in a foreign city, but in game that is not possible AFAIK.
So... what would it do?
Click to expand...

If you're running Fascist, then it makes a bit more sense if you're running something like Democracy :)


That being said, the game never did really reflect history very well, i.e. building the Pyramids in Rome and the Hanging Gardens in Russia (In AD years!!) :lol:
 
Rezca said:
That being said, the game never did really reflect history very well, i.e. building the Pyramids in Rome and the Hanging Gardens in Russia (In AD years!!) :lol:
Click to expand...
... or to rule the world with Huayna Capac :D
 
dbkblk said:
... or to rule the world with Huayna Capac :D
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I remember enjoying playing as Monty in my early days on Civilization, watching him take over the world and having a chuckle seeing his "ancient aztec city" have railroads and airports and stuff :lol:

I always preferred the ancient (Or just old) leaders and civs to the new modern ones. :)
 
Rezca said:
If you're running Fascist, then it makes a bit more sense if you're running something like Democracy :)


That being said, the game never did really reflect history very well, i.e. building the Pyramids in Rome and the Hanging Gardens in Russia (In AD years!!) :lol:
Click to expand...

Of course it makes sense with Fascist, that's no question.
I just said that it is like building a prisson for yourself.
Let's see what vokarya is up to.

I always preferred the ancient (Or just old) leaders and civs to the new modern ones. :)
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Me too :)
 
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