Why add orthodoxy and protestantism but not an African or Native american religion?

jabbawackybacky

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I was just curious about this - obviously all 3 Christian sects are very different from one another but they are all a part of the same broader religious community. Wouldn't it have been more interesting to add a Mesoamerican or North American indigenous religion, or an African one, to reflect the world's religious diversity a little better? Just a thought ... especially when the sects of Buddhism and Islam are not recognized despite being quite distinctive.
 
There is a somewhat lengthy discussion of this topic, use the search function and you'll get to read about 12 pages worth of discussion.
 
Just like every other questionable decision, it's all about the gameplay.

Prior to BNW half the civs in the game had Christianity set as their default religion preference. So Firaxis split Christianity into three sects in order to diversify the default preferences. That was the most effective way to diversify the preferences. Adding something like Ghost Dance or Vodun would only have changed one or two civs' preferences. Adding Eastern Orthodox and Protestantism changes several.
 
I agree with the OP. It sickens me that the New World civs (Aztecs, Incans, etc.) have to resort to Christianity. It makes no sense.

If the developers don't want to get so specific, may I recommend an ANIMISM religion to cover most of the in-game religions?
 
I agree with the OP. It sickens me that the New World civs (Aztecs, Incans, etc.) have to resort to Christianity. It makes no sense.

If the developers don't want to get so specific, may I recommend an ANIMISM religion to cover most of the in-game religions?

I guess it has something to do with them not being as much of an 'organized religion' as it is multiple parthenons collected to satisfy the people. The same reason Scandinavian, Roman and Greek mythology is not included.
 
name an African or Native American religion off the top of your head.

That's why.
 
Just a thought ... especially when the sects of Buddhism and Islam are not recognized despite being quite distinctive.

Ah yes. Because splitting the Shia sect and Sunni sects would be a worthwhile time. Why? Because every civilization that goes Islam now would go Sunni.

The Christian split makes sense because there are a lot of Christian-oriented civilizations in the game.
 
Ah yes. Because splitting the Shia sect and Sunni sects would be a worthwhile time. Why? Because every civilization that goes Islam now would go Sunni.

The Christian split makes sense because there are a lot of Christian-oriented civilizations in the game.

And they didn't need to even create the symbols for the split Christian denominations as they were just ported from the scenario in BNW.
 
AND.. it didn't cost them anything to make, because of the Into the Renaissance scenario they already had ALL the assets, all they needed to do it is add the two religions into the Religions.XML and copy & paste the tags.

If they were to add Animalism and split Islam, that would actually be costly (eve if minimal costs).

And, the main reason is that the demand for Christianity was extremly high.
 
ok resipsa thanks to you I get to go cast some dark thread necromancy spells ...

I guess it has something to do with them not being as much of an 'organized religion' as it is multiple parthenons collected to satisfy the people. The same reason Scandinavian, Roman and Greek mythology is not included.

Hinduism, Tengriism, Confucianism and Taoism aren't exactly organized religions either.

name an African or Native American religion off the top of your head.

That's why.

Voodun, Yoruba tradition, Bwiti, Ghost Dance, the Longhouse religions, the Sun Dance, Wakantanka Inti/Pachamama worship by the Inca, Quetzalcoatl/Nagual worship (from the Mayans and Aztecs)

Ah yes. Because splitting the Shia sect and Sunni sects would be a worthwhile time. Why? Because every civilization that goes Islam now would go Sunni.

The Christian split makes sense because there are a lot of Christian-oriented civilizations in the game.

I see - I guess then it is because Persia goes Zoroastrian by default?

Whether or not a lot of countries go one way or another seems to be a judgement call - Spain is obviously Catholic but England was Catholic for a thousand years before it became Protestant, as was Germany. I guess they are protestant by default but

Buddhism would still have varying sects though. Therevada for Siam, Mahayana for Korea, etc
 
Hinduism, Tengriism, Confucianism and Taoism aren't exactly organized religions either.

I don't know much about the latter three apart from their point of origin, but I would call Hinduism an organized religion.


Whether or not a lot of countries go one way or another seems to be a judgement call - Spain is obviously Catholic but England was Catholic for a thousand years before it became Protestant, as was Germany. I guess they are protestant by default but

I guess these are based on the civ leader =)
 
Could Firaxis possibly add those other minor religious branch like Calvinism and Anglicanism?
 
the branching of the christian religion is really welcomed by me!! native american religions maybe better called "beliefs" does not compete in terms of influence on world history and population-wise. yes it might be neat and unique, but any small group of people can dream up a new religion, but no influence the world with it..
 
I don't know much about the latter three apart from their point of origin, but I would call Hinduism an organized religion.

None of those religions, including Hinduism, have a unique founder, a single set of universally accepted dogmas, or a single body of clerics with common rules for who can be and who cannot be a cleric. Hinduism has Brahmins, Sadhus and various other religious figures but there is no Hindu pope or body of priests who says which gods are in or out of the religion, whether a person is going outside the bounds of the religion, etc.

The only thing tying most Hindus together is the belief in the Vedas, but the interpretations of the vedas are incredibly varied and many people on the boundaries of the Hindu religion don't really focus on those texts.

Look at how Hinduism emerged - it was an organic growth out of the polytheistic religion of the Aryans mixing with the polytheistic religion of the inhabitants of ancient India, and was bottom-up much the way Greek, Roman and Chinese polytheism. The only difference is that it survived and developed a coherent philosophy and theology that could compete with the later religions like Islam and Christianity.

I guess these are based on the civ leader =)

probably! That makes the most sense. Though it doesnt really work then for all the ancient/native american leaders/shaka zulu whose religions aren't represented. They obviously can't represent everyone's religion I don't blame them for that though.

the branching of the christian religion is really welcomed by me!! native american religions maybe better called "beliefs" does not compete in terms of influence on world history and population-wise. yes it might be neat and unique, but any small group of people can dream up a new religion, but no influence the world with it..

That's not true at all, I think this is a Eurocentric conception. The Aztecs and Mayans had similar religious beliefs which shaped the culture, politics and philosophies of their empires greatly. I don't think you can understand Mayan and Aztec civilization without understanding their religions, and how the religions of those two cultures were different yet shared certain common values and myths.

The sun dance and ghost dance religions spread across many native american tribes, especially in response to the coming of European culture, and shaped their cultural and political response to European arrival. The ideas have now spread somewhat into American culture, albeit often in a corrupted manner (like the way a lot of new age people appropriate the aspects of native american religion).

Have you ever heard of the massacre at wounded knee? It was instigated in part by sioux indians participating in the ghost dance religion, which was a pan-native religious movement which sought to restore native american hegemony. Also those tribal religions still exist, not every native american converted to Christianity and many also mix those two religious beliefs.

Its the only way to really reflect that cultural diversity in the game.

I liked the division of Christianity

But I would like to see religions Mesoamerican, to represent the Aztecs, Mayans and Incas

Yeah I dont think its a bad thing to have more Christian sects it just seems unfortunate that they didn't also add religions for 1/3 of the world's people.
 
It makes sense to split the Christianity's just because of how many Civs default to Christianity.

A thing to consider is that you would need a unique religion for each of the Native American/Mesoamerican civs, because they sure as hell didn't/don't worship a variation of the same religion (the Huns defaulting to Tengriism is already stretching it.)
 
They could obviously include 1,000 religions in the game quite easily, but it's not too hard to look at the leader roster and see why they split Christianity.

Another forum tempest in a teapot, no offense.

( None of that is to say that adding more religions is bad. I often use the mods that add dozens and dozens of religions myself. )

If you want to complain about Eurocentrism then maybe the fact that the Mayans end up with clearly European medieval units, for instance, would be a better starting point?

EDIT: Oh, and the fact that literally all of the non-UUs are white guys. Just sayin', this is pretty far down the list of "problems" with Civilization.

Or we can just look at the fact that game art costs money and they're mostly selling the game in Europe and Asia, and probably aren't too worried about it.

Sure, it would be really neat to have a perfectly non-Eurocentric Civilization where history really could play out entirely differently. Neat as hell. But it would require a much more massive project than Civ, which basically bolts a few UUs, UIs, UBs, and UAs onto the skeleton of European/Asian history.
 
I see - I guess then it is because Persia goes Zoroastrian by default?

Yes. Thus, nobody would ever choose a non-Sunni sect.

Whether or not a lot of countries go one way or another seems to be a judgement call - Spain is obviously Catholic but England was Catholic for a thousand years before it became Protestant, as was Germany. I guess they are protestant by default but

There's a simple formula. If the religion most popular at the time that the leader rules is present, then the civilization prefers that religion. Otherwise, it prefers the religion that's currently most popular in that region.

Buddhism would still have varying sects though. Therevada for Siam, Mahayana for Korea, etc

Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, Korea chooses Confucianism.
 
Regardless of what religions are included in the game, great prophets and missionaries are too powerful.. Why can't a civ have multiple religions? and no official state religion?
 
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