Japan 'useless'?

arand86

Warlord
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
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Lately I've seen a bunch of posts of Japan being a worthless civ now for some reason. Is there any reason for this? They haven't been changed recently to my knowledge
 
Its probably more a reflection of there being other options that are better at doing what they do . (Zulus Thousands of em)
They have remained the same whilst the playing field has moved .
 
Japan is actually pretty good for playing the bomber wargame, if not the best civ for it. But that's pretty much all it's really good at now.
 
Bomber wargame is good though. Air repair bombers deal nasty damage even when on low-risk missions to heal.

To the OP, Japan is now outshadowed by more and more civs. They are still better at war than non-warmongers but are a poor choice compared to the mighty Zulu, for example.
 
I think part of it also has to do with the increasingly punitive "warmonger" rules. Now that BNW has so many mechanics focused around cooperation (trade routes, world congress, etc), it's very risky to play too aggressivly and risk getting labeled a "warmonger" by every AI. Doing so can cripple your economy if not managed carefully. Since all of Japan's abilities are military-focused, they've been indirectly weakened by the shift towards more peaceful strategies (and more passive AIs) in BNW.
 
I think the Zeros should have the ability to Kamakazi, where they can deliver a one-time attack that destroys the unit, but causes a huge amount of destruction.
 
Good idea, Quazum. That would make the Zero a lot more interesting.

However, I would like it if a scientific unique building was added instead of the Zero. It would make the Japanese a science/warmongering civ hybrid, which would be very interesting. After all, the Japanese are doing very well with science at this point (IRL).
 
Weren't kamikaze attacks a rather poor tactic? The allies learned to intercept them fairly quickly, making them mostly a waste of resources. Anyway, gameplay trumps realism.

The samurai are very iconic, a natural choice for a Japanese UU. The idea for a science or a commercial UB isn't half bad. Or a religious or cultural one - Tea room, perhaps?
 
Sure, a tea room sounds like a good idea. I hope it isn't just another stereotype about the Japanese, I guess I'll research that.
 
It actually is not - the tea ceremony is an important and respectable part of their culture, not just a stereotype. The tea houses are awesome.
 
Kamikaze is a tenet in the Autocracy ideology. It allows for weak air units to sacrifice themselves to deal massive damage to enemy units.
 
The Japanese can't lose the Zero because it is a crucial part of what Firaxis is portraying with them, namely their involvement in WW2. With ideologies being such a prominent aspect of the game now this is more important than ever. Japan needs to be able to adopt autocracy and attempt to conquer the world with this unique unit, same as how the Panzer is a crucial unit for the German empire for the same reason. The Zero most likely needs a boost because while its special ability is powerful it is too situational, but it shouldn't be replaced.

Japan already has kamikaze - it's called Bushido. Bushido precisely encourages a kamikaze style of play. If you gave them a unique building instead it would dillute their role as a warmonger civ by making them builders and lessen the impact of their unique ability and whole role in the game. Japan is not a builder civ or a cultural civ, they're isolationist, and they're warriors. That means Japan needs to be a double unique unit civ, making a tea house a strict no-go. Besides, the tea house is already symbolized in the game in the form of the Bushido ability in that these two are both about Japanese tradition for and concept of 'Honor' - but it is better reflected by the unique ability than by a would-be unique building. Japan is perfect as is.

I do agree that Japan needs a hand, but that needs to come in the form of Firaxis stopping to put all these insane roadblocks in front of warmonger civs, not changing Japan as is. As was noted above, there are too many penalties for warmongering - that is Japan's real problem. The Civ 5 diplomacy is borked as a whole (with diplomacy revolving almost exclusively around this 'warmonger hate' that seems to just never subside, even hundreds of turns later) and I don't see Firaxis fixing it, but the simple change of making warmonger hate drop much, much faster than it does now (something like 10x as fast) would greatly improve the game and level the field for warmongering civs.
 
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