Where to build - trying to get better

Hi civfanatics

I'm trying to get a better feel for the importance of different features, when selecting city locations and I have this current game going, where I thought to myself - "Why not try to tap into the experience of some really rugged civ5 veterans..", so I found myself comming here!

This is my game, and I have highlighted some of the locations I thought might be best suited for a city location..



I would be very happy, if someone would be so kind as to give me their favourite location and most of all, why

If of importance: I'm playing as Austria on King difficulty

Thanks all!

Firstly, Salzburg is not is a great location (Vienna will get the gems and crab anyway). My second city would have been either on 1, or directly on the marble. 1 is better than 2 or 3 because it is adjacent to a river, so there are more buildings available for you, as well as a lot of good workable farmland and city defence. They are good spots in general because of the lux's, the bonus resources, being on a hill, and being adjacent to a mountain (good for the over powered observatory, as well as more defence. I'd usually take 1 over the marble pot because later you can drop a coastal river city to the NE, whereas there is no room if you're on the marble. However, the marble will get you the lux immediately, helping you expand quicker. It'll also give the wonder bonus without the need for masonry.
After that I'd scout out west (north of Vancouver) to see where is best to put a city on that river around the wine lux. There's a river, and you may also get the cotton and iron, as well as having at least the cattle as a bonus resource.

Thanks for the input Mr. Bison!

Maybe I should give my own thoughts here as well, and clarify a few things!
The Wine to SW of spot no. 4 is Incan territory (hard to see on screenshot)
spot 1, 2, 3 are all on river tiles

My thoughts on

spot 1:

• I get the get horses
• Its on a hill
• get diamonds to NW

Spot 2

• Will get horses eventually, just not workable (unless CS grab them)
• Can Citadel steal the dyes to the West from CS - workable
• Can work El-Dorado to the SW
• Will get diamonds to the NW and SE eventually, not workable though

against this location is, that its on flatlands, surrounded by hills

Spot 3

• On River
• On Hill
• Access to El-Dorado
• Access to the Diamond to SE

The thing is, I'm really not too sure about the importance of working El-Dorado for that +5 culture, but no food or production..

OneEyedFreak said:

Thanks for the input Mr. Bison!

Maybe I should give my own thoughts here as well, and clarify a few things!
The Wine to SW of spot no. 4 is Incan territory (hard to see on screenshot)
spot 1, 2, 3 are all on river tiles

My thoughts on

spot 1:

• I get the get horses
• Its on a hill
• get diamonds to NW

Spot 2

• Will get horses eventually, just not workable (unless CS grab them)
• Can Citadel steal the dyes to the West from CS - workable
• Can work El-Dorado to the SW
• Will get diamonds to the NW and SE eventually, not workable though

against this location is, that its on flatlands, surrounded by hills

Spot 3

• On River
• On Hill
• Access to El-Dorado
• Access to the Diamond to SE

The thing is, I'm really not too sure about the importance of working El-Dorado for that +5 culture, but no food or production..

Click to expand...

Hey there, nice post with clear picture.

I think spots #1 or 4 are your best bets for your next city. First off, have you scouted much south of spots 1/2/3 ? Is there an AI civ down there, more CSes, or just sea? If there's no enemy civ down there, I'd go for spot #4. Why? because otherwise the Incas will grab it sooner rather than later. You have to beat the AI civs do any decent city spots. If there's no AI civ down south, you're much more likely to still be able to put a city on spot #1 later.

Best attributes of spot #4? Takes away Incan city spot, giving your capital a buffer zone between it and the Incas. Also, new resource of Cotton is almost a must for a new city spot. Has access to water, so will grow decently, and has mountain adjacency for observatory and plenty of production potential as well.

Why is spot #1 much better than spot #2 or #3?

-nice spacing between you and capital city; no wasted hexes.
-adjacent to river and maximizes river-adjacent workable hexes
-on a hill for extra production.
-has access to luxury resources (gems) and sheep for good stable usage.
-mountain-adjacent for observatory
-good balance of production and food capability
-#2 not on hill and a bit wasteful of usable hexes; non-workable resources not as good as workable ones! Plus non-workable resources often gobbled up by CSes or new AI cities if possible
-#3 almost totally surrounded by mountains. You'll have to pay A LOT of cash to buy tiles to get to El Dorado before Vancouver takes it. It's not worth it.

OK, those were my quick thoughts. Hope you're having fun with the game!

Just a couple of general points. [You may well have already figured these out on your own. I'm sure the "old hands" have (and probably question the merits of these suggestions).]

If at all possible, plant your cities next to a river. I find that development and rate of growth hinges on Production. One of the best items to aid that is the Water Wheel (which I see you will have available in six turns.) Early on, it's one of the fastest way to boost your Production.

Unless there is some distinct advantage from other factors, try to build on level ground. It won't be available until the Renaissance, but when you get Economics, you'll be able to build a Windmill -- IF the city is built on level ground. Once again, it's about maximizing your Production potential.

Ultimately, you will need at least one city built on the coast, just to get access to naval operations. If you ever see a good coast sight that is also adjacent to a river, seriously consider city building there ASAP. The sooner you have sea access, the sooner you will be able to build Wonders like the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus. If other civs have ports early on, it's a tight race as to see who will have those first. Having a Water Wheel in your port city gives you a substantial advantage in the race.

If you want to maximize your territory, put your cities with 5 or 6 hexes apart. Any further apart and it's an invitation to aggressive AI city-builders to slip in a Settler to build a city that will be cutting into the suburbs of your cities to either side. It may not seem like a tragedy early on, but by mid- or late-game, you'll be wishing you never let that interloper into "your" backyard.

CaptainPatch said:

Just a couple of general points. [You may well have already figured these out on your own. I'm sure the "old hands" have (and probably question the merits of these suggestions).]

Click to expand...

You're right, I do question

CaptainPatch said:

If at all possible, plant your cities next to a river. I find that development and rate of growth hinges on Production. One of the best items to aid that is the Water Wheel (which I see you will have available in six turns.) Early on, it's one of the fastest way to boost your Production. Unless there is some distinct advantage from other factors, try to build on level ground.

Click to expand...

Agree 100% on the river, although it's not nearly as important in BNW as it was, with a gold from river tiles removed. But getting the water mill is a great kick started for your cities. And farming riverside tiles provides the early growth you need.

I however strongly disagree on planting on level ground. The early boost in production you get from planting on a hill far outweighs what you will get from a windmill later on.

Also, you get a defensive bonus for the city, which depending on the difficulty level can be crucial. I play on deity, and I can tell you the AI would crush your expansions very often without those bonuses.

OneEyedFreak said:

spot 1:

• I get the get horses
• Its on a hill
• get diamonds to NW

Click to expand...

Hills are a double edged sword. Your city will be more productive from the start, but you won't be able to build a windmill. That's always a trade off, mostly because of the engineer slot. Hills are even less desirable for Austria because of the coffee couse. You'll want that engineer slot and the GP bonus later to rush wonders or get manufactories. It can be difficult to determine whether you'd rather have production now or get more Geat Engineers later.
Having said that, I'd still go with spot 1. Nearby marble is one of the factors in favor of the hill city because you might be able to build a relatively early wonder there. The main advantage of 1 is food which will really be a problem for any city founded on 2 or 3. You'll have all the sheep and most importantly the most gras and river tiles (and I'd recommend building farms on all the hills adjacent to the river). The city will also have horses insinde it's radius (Circus) and a mountain right next to it (Observatory, possibly Machu Picchu and/or Neuschwanstein) which is always a plus. And all those sheep will make a stable really worthwhile.

The thing is, I'm really not too sure about the importance of working El-Dorado for that +5 culture, but no food or production..

Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about El Dorado unless there's a good spot to the south of it. 5 culture is nice, but I'd only take it as an added bonus for a city that is alerady in a very good location. Any city founded on 1-3 won't have El Dorado inside it's borders for a very long time because the mountains and all the hills in between will have very low priority for natural border expansion.


I just noticed that zenmaster has already made most of my points.
Anyway...

Maybe I should give my own thoughts here as well, and clarify a few things!
The Wine to SW of spot no. 4 is Incan territory (hard to see on screenshot)

Click to expand...

That's a shame. If not for the Inca the tile with the cotton on it would be a magnificent location. You'd have the mountain, the stone for stoneworks, iron and a lot of desert hills. I think I'd settle it anyway and make Petra in the city a top priority. Settling so close to the Inca will probably make them your eternal enemy, but then won't feel too bad when you steal some of their land with a Great General or raze the city that has wine. Location 4 could also be pretty good. Again no Coffee House because of the hill, but it will make it easier to get Petra.

And Salzburg was really a waste of a perfectly good settler. Your second city should have been on 4 or the cotton. 1 has slightly lower priority because it's not that close to another civ (meaning it won't get snatched up so fast) and you already have source of gems.

Yeah I wouldn't have put Salzburg there yet. It will be a long time before the AI tries to settle a city back there and if you went Tradition, you'd pick up the crabs either way.

I think I'd have settled directly on the marble. It will give the happiness right away and is behind the mountain pass which means you will be able to protect it with a single archer for more or less the entire game.

It is difficult to see, but I'd place the third somewhere near #4. If I could manage to trade one of the gems for another luxury, I'd place another directly west in between the cattle near river and mountain.

If you wanted to play it very aggressive, I'd war with the Inca until you get a GG then steal the wine while also setting up even more defense. From there you could play with very little military--any threat will realistically come from NW/W, so you can place most of your military in that area.

Also, I thought Coffee House can be built on both flat and hills? Google is confirming, but I haven't played Austria in a very long time so I could be wrong.

Coffee House can be built in cities on a hill, so there is no reason to avoid settling on a hill when playing as Austria.

My personal opinion is first settle et Spot 2. It is flat (Coffehouse), you can grab El Dorado, and you can get the dye also with great general. And you can buy for a little cash the marble tile, you don't have to settle next to it. At King I don't think that the hill's extra defense is necessary.

Later the area of Spot 4 or west from it would be a good place. You have to choose between the observatory and the coffee house. If Matthew is right about buliding coffee house on hills, then stick to Spot 4.

I would DEFINITELY settle on spot 3. As you said, you get access to El Dorado, and you can still get the Coffee House. Plus, you immediately hook up the Gems, are on a river, are within range of the Marble to the North, and are within range of the Gems to the Southwest.