What if UAs were downsides?

Lorf Yimzo · Oct 3, 2013

What if unique abilties were bad. How would that affect gameplay and balance? Also, try coming up with bad UAs that would fit civs.
EX:
China- Ancestral Worship- Faith can only be gained from outside sources.
Japan- Isolationism- Cannot trade with other civs until you have reached the industrial era.

Crafty Bison · Oct 3, 2013

If they'd done it this way there would have been a lot more complaints :sad:

Jampine · Oct 3, 2013

I'm getting the vibe this might be more of a silly thread than a suggestion thread. I don't think there will ever be negative UA's though, as the point of them is to make certain civs better in some areas, without penalizing others.
But still:
England: Every other European civ will distrust you from the start (barring Portugal). Also, if you run out of tea, everyone will riot.
USA: When you can'y decide on a policy or ideology, your government shuts down, rendering you unable to take most actions. (but they still get paid)

darden · Oct 3, 2013

Rome -- -2 :hammers:

for every wine resource worked

leif erikson · Oct 3, 2013

Moderator Action: Let's please keep current events out of this thread. Please be careful not to exploit national stereotypes nor troll sensitive national issues. Let this remain respectful.

Aldhissla · Oct 3, 2013

This actually applies to a lot of things in the game. Ignoring opportunity cost, barely anything has a downside.

There are no beliefs you can pick that might be beneficial for you but would screw up your neighbour if you spread it to him.
Social policies and tenets are all positive apart from the happiness loss you might incur from picking an ideology.
As you pointed out civ abilities are either positive or negligible with the honourable mention of Indias UA and Indonesia's UU (which is crap anyway).

For example imagine this follower belief:

Oppression of Ideas:
+2 :c5angry:

from Libraries, Universities and Research Labs
+2 :c5science:

from Shrines and Temples

I can't think of any UA's to in this vein, but I'd really like to see a bit more polarity in civ.

Qoma · Oct 3, 2013

Maya - Overreactionism: Every 374 years when the Mayan calendar resets, your people think the world is coming to an end. 0 production for one turn (but +15% growth for one turn as they "live like there's no tomorrow").

AW Arcaeca · Oct 3, 2013

Or how about for Rome:
Barbarian Magnet - Barbarian encampments appear twice as much within ten tiles of roman cities. Greater chance that barbarians will attack rome over another nearby civ, even if attacking rome would be a strategic disadvantage.

or what if 'Sacrifical captives', as a UA or belief, went something more like:
Sacrificial Captives - 1 :c5faith:

faith per 2 :c5citizen:

citizens in an affected city, but population growth in the city halved.

WarIsPeace · Oct 3, 2013

One of the aspects I liked most about the 'Fall of Rome' scenario is that Roman social policies are all negative, which seems appropriate for an empire in decline. As the scenario progresses, it gets more and more difficult for Rome.

Breadsmith · Oct 4, 2013

Service Based Economy: -50% :c5production:

but +50%

in each of your cities.

killmeplease · Oct 4, 2013

Lorf Yimzo said:
Japan- Isolationism- Cannot trade with other civs until you have reached the industrial era.

That's a myth. Japan traded with other civs intensively, though the trade was restricted to a few cities so government could control it.

TheRH100 · Oct 4, 2013

Breadsmith said:
Service Based Economy: -50% but +50% in each of your cities.

I wouldn't necessarily say that's "bad" but not good either, just something that carries one thing to another, like gandhi.

McSaucy4418 · Oct 4, 2013

Just came here to say I wish things did have a downside. Obviously not as extreme as most of these suggestions but weigh the pros and cons of various choices, specifically social policies and religion.

danieladler · Oct 5, 2013

It would be better if you could choose from a couple of UA:s and each of them would have a pro and a con. And, like someone wrote earlier, there are already pros and cons with some UA:s like Ethiopia and India but i kinda understand what you are getting at.

gyrobot · Oct 5, 2013

Byzantines: Byzatine Plot: +1 turn required for spies to perform actions in a Byzantine City, however it also takes 1 extra turn for your spies to do the same in other cities.

Arachnofiend · Oct 5, 2013

McSaucy4418 said:
Just came here to say I wish things did have a downside. Obviously not as extreme as most of these suggestions but weigh the pros and cons of various choices, specifically social policies and religion.

The downside of everything in Civ is that you're not getting something else. Like for religion, the downside of Tithe is that you're not getting the faith from Pilgrimage or the happiness from Ceremonial Burial. Which one you pick is decided by which thing you need the most. It's a design philosophy I greatly prefer over the alternative.

ilik · Oct 5, 2013

Rome: Anti-Barbarism-There will always be at least 5 barbarian encampments within 4 tiles of one of your cities. Germany automatically denounces you and goes to war with you if discovered and in the game. -20% penalty if fighting Barbarians in forests.

Talcove · Oct 5, 2013

(Any of the Native American Civs): Upon coming into contact with a European Civ, your cities become diseased, loosing 1 population per turn. All European civs denounce you five turns after.

Venice: Other civilizations constantly mistakenly attempt to bribe you into allying with them, and giving them delegates for the world congress.

primordial stew · Oct 6, 2013

Carthage: unfaithful mercenaries - 50% chance of mercenary unit rebelling (going barbarian) while gold < 0.

Huns: enslaved Goths - allied military CS gift 3X as often, cannot build settlers.

Germany: small settlements -cannot build farms till iron working.

Greece: Alexander's fall - if a GG dies all pairs of puppet-ed cities form a new civilization

arand86 · Oct 6, 2013

These UA's contain negatives, but are meant to be positive overall

China: Selective dynasties
+50% science in Ancient, classical, Medieval eras
-50% science in the renaissance and industrial eras.
+25% production in Information era

US: laissez faire economy
When income is negative, double gold loss per turn, double science loss from negative income, and -25% production when in debt
When income is positive, double gold gain per turn, up to 100 additional income.

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