City Flipping questions..

Beastfeast · Jul 4, 2013

If I found the first ideology will I be able to flip the cities of ideologically unaligned civs? Does the other civ need to already follow an ideology for city flipping to take place? I want to be able to flip cities in the mid game (ie 1600-1700s). Will I be able to do this without straining my civ's capabilities?

Also, Will major rebellions be possible before ideologies are founded?

Ogrelord · Jul 4, 2013

City revolts occurs due to negative Public Opinion. Your citizens become dissidents if another Civilization has superior Tourism to your culture, a different Ideology, and if you don't have enough happiness.
Public Opinion appears when you select an Ideology. The unhappiness in Public Opinion differs from overall unhappiness in a way.

Hulking Lummox · Jul 4, 2013

I have a dovetail question for this topic. Can Assyria gain technologies by flipping enemy cities?

If so I am starting to think they are potentially the strongest civ of all.

KrikkitTwo · Jul 4, 2013

Hulking Lummox said:
I have a dovetail question for this topic. Can Assyria gain technologies by flipping enemy cities?

If so I am starting to think they are potentially the strongest civ of all.

They can't get it through peaceful methods, so i would guess not.

Furycrab · Jul 4, 2013

City flipping, even in late game is barely something that is ever going to happen if at all. It's just a condition imposed upon you so that if you chose to be stubborn and just resist his ideology, you could get rebels or lose cities once extreme unhappiness sets in.

Tourism ramps up pretty slowly at first, I guess it is possible (vs a really easy opponent) that you'd be so far ahead in tech that you could get some tourism pressure before he gets to pick. However since public opinion seems to be something that appears after you get an ideology, you may very well be immune to the effects until you pick, and once you do, nothing really stopping that guy from just picking whatever is already pressuring him.

Eagle Pursuit · Jul 4, 2013

As we saw in MadDjinn's video, it's certainly possible to put the AI in a position to flip their cities. The question is how likely is the AI to change ideologies in order to avoid having cities flipped?

Furycrab · Jul 4, 2013

Eagle Pursuit said:
As we saw in MadDjinn's video, it's certainly possible to put the AI in a position to flip their cities. The question is how likely is the AI to change ideologies in order to avoid having cities flipped?

I'm guessing they are just going to do the same thing most rational players would...

Can I get my happiness above -20 in a reasonable amount of time (buying buildings etc...). If not, change ideologies.

Ogrelord · Jul 4, 2013

Furycrab said:
City flipping, even in late game is barely something that is ever going to happen if at all. It's just a condition imposed upon you so that if you chose to be stubborn and just resist his ideology, ....
....
be immune to the effects until you pick, and once you do, nothing really stopping that guy from just picking whatever is already pressuring him.

It's a gamble, for a player anyway, whoever is the first to adopt the ideology gets 2 free tenets. Second player to adopt gets one free tenets. Depending on what your gameplan is, picking the Ideology that is not "mainstream" could benefit the player if they think they can handle the Public Opinion.

Egypt's President Morsi couldn't.

Talcove · Jul 5, 2013

Ogrelord said:
Depending on what your gameplan is, picking the Ideology that is not "mainstream" could benefit the player if they think they can handle the Public Opinion.

Egypt's President Morsi couldn't.

Oh, ZIIIIIING! They need to make something out of this in the 'British Tabloid' thread. :lol:

MadDjinn · Jul 5, 2013

Furycrab said:
I'm guessing they are just going to do the same thing most rational players would...

Can I get my happiness above -20 in a reasonable amount of time (buying buildings etc...). If not, change ideologies.

yes, the AI is coded to be smart in these choices. Though switch 'reasonable amount' to 'limited' for the actual mechanic.

Don't forget though, that if the AI can't switch ideologies (main pressure is the same as current ideology) and is forced down to -20 unhappiness of beyond, then the only choice is to find new happiness or lose cities.

Just don't expect it to happen often.

Shamajotsi · Jul 5, 2013

I am still wondering how city flipping work for One City Challenge.

Ogrelord · Jul 5, 2013

I don't like the "flip" part of city flipping even though that term is from previous Civ. It's not an instant thing that occurs on the 'Next Turn'. It is actually revolting. The new Civ 'owner' will have to wait for the resistance to go down.

KrikkitTwo · Jul 5, 2013

MadDjinn said:
yes, the AI is coded to be smart in these choices. Though switch 'reasonable amount' to 'limited' for the actual mechanic.

Don't forget though, that if the AI can't switch ideologies (main pressure is the same as current ideology) and is forced down to -20 unhappiness of beyond, then the only choice is to find new happiness or lose cities.

Just don't expect it to happen often.

So you CAN get cities from an Ideological ally.

Although if they are an Ideological ally, your tourism won't increase their unhappiness...
the only way to make them unhappy is to cut off their luxuries...

and the only thing your tourism does is make sure they flip to you? (I think)

Is it "person with the closest capital of the right ideology" gets the city or is there some effect of tourism in who gets the city.

That might be useful as a Cultural Autocrat to hold back the Domination Autocrats

Seek · Jul 5, 2013

Ogrelord said:
I don't like the "flip" part of city flipping even though that term is from previous Civ. It's not an instant thing that occurs on the 'Next Turn'. It is actually revolting. The new Civ 'owner' will have to wait for the resistance to go down.

Interesting! So do the same building-loss rules when conquering a city apply here as well? I have to say, I was imagining an Austria-type peaceful takeover.

KrikkitTwo · Jul 5, 2013

Seek said:
Interesting! So do the same building-loss rules when conquering a city apply here as well? I have to say, I was imagining an Austria-type peaceful takeover.

That seemed possible, but I think the "peaceful takeover" is switching ideologies.

The city flip is a bunch of rebel seperatists winning. (they have to go around and kill off the loyalists, blow up buildings controlled by the previous government, etc.)

[note: that also makes sense because if you city flip a city you originally own, then you probably Won't have the resistance.. not sure about the pop/building loss though]

City Flipping questions..

Beastfeast

Chieftain

Ogrelord

Prince

Hulking Lummox

Warlord

KrikkitTwo

Immortal

Furycrab

King

Eagle Pursuit

Per Scribendum, Volo

Furycrab

King

Ogrelord

Prince

Talcove

Slayer of Spies

MadDjinn

Deity

Shamajotsi

Chieftain

Ogrelord

Prince

KrikkitTwo

Immortal

Seek

Deity

KrikkitTwo

Immortal

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