Lake Victoria is a... not-mountain?

Khavikanum · Aug 12, 2013

I was lucky enough to have Lake Victoria nearby and plunked my second city right next to it. Who could pass up +6 food?! Woohoo! Then my workers arrived, and... they were apparently a bit confused when they weren't allowed to irrigate farms from the lake. Then I realized Lake Victoria doesn't show up on the map as a lake, either. I suppose it would be too big of a food bonus to allow Lake Victoria to be a lake, because that would allow +1 or more food around the edges of the lake, as well. So... we get +6 food from a lake that isn't a lake, yet my third city gets +6 food (after irrigation) because it has access to a real lake. So when it comes to city planning, the only consideration for Lake Victoria is how many workers I have? Or whether I can enact a world heritage ruling?

Aaron90495 · Aug 12, 2013

Khavikanum said:
I was lucky enough to have Lake Victoria nearby and plunked my second city right next to it. Who could pass up +6 food?! Woohoo! Then my workers arrived, and... they were apparently a bit confused when they weren't allowed to irrigate farms from the lake. Then I realized Lake Victoria doesn't show up on the map as a lake, either. I suppose it would be too big of a food bonus to allow Lake Victoria to be a lake, because that would allow +1 or more food around the edges of the lake, as well. So... we get +6 food from a lake that isn't a lake, yet my third city gets +6 food (after irrigation) because it has access to a real lake. So when it comes to city planning, the only consideration for Lake Victoria is how many workers I have? Or whether I can enact a world heritage ruling?

It's still a great Natural Wonder. True, you won't get more benefits from Civil Service if you don't have a river or other lake, but keep in mind you only need to work ONE tile to get that 6 food, whereas you would need to work many riverside tiles to get the same effect in another city.

Shadow717 · Aug 12, 2013

Oddly enough, it also blocks line of sight like a mountain would. Maybe its shrouded in thick fog throughout all hours of the day.

Tiggurix · Aug 12, 2013

What I find especially funny, though, is that Old Faithful DOES count as a source of fresh water, as I found out when I was able to farm tundra next to it. As to why a geyser counts as a source of fresh water but a giant lake DOESN'T is beyond me...

Glassmage · Aug 12, 2013

Tiggurix said:
What I find especially funny, though, is that Old Faithful DOES count as a source of fresh water, as I found out when I was able to farm tundra next to it. As to why a geyser counts as a source of fresh water but a giant lake DOESN'T is beyond me...

This is the code for Old Faithful. There is no addfreshwater tag.

<Row>
<Type>FEATURE_GEYSER</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_FEATURE_GEYSER</Description>
<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIV5_FEATURES_OLDFAITHFUL_TEXT</Civilopedia>
<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_FEATURE_GEYSER</ArtDefineTag>
<Movement>1</Movement>
<SeeThrough>2</SeeThrough>
<Impassable>true</Impassable>
<InfluenceCost>-3</InfluenceCost>
<InBorderHappiness>6</InBorderHappiness>
<NaturalWonder>true</NaturalWonder>
<NoImprovement>true</NoImprovement>
<OccurrenceFrequency>10</OccurrenceFrequency>
<Rough>true</Rough>
<YieldNotAdditive>true</YieldNotAdditive>
<PortraitIndex>4</PortraitIndex>
<IconAtlas>NW_ATLAS</IconAtlas>
</Row>

Tiggurix · Aug 13, 2013

Well, how was I able to farm the tundra then, when there was no other potential fresh water source in sight?

Rathelon · Aug 13, 2013

Shadow717 said:
Oddly enough, it also blocks line of sight like a mountain would. Maybe its shrouded in thick fog throughout all hours of the day.

It's the clouds of flamingos, I tell ya.

caiman0815 · Aug 13, 2013

Tiggurix said:
Well, how was I able to farm the tundra then, when there was no other potential fresh water source in sight?

you can farm tiles without fresh water source. fresh water just gives +1 food with civil service

Callonia · Aug 13, 2013

I was able to irrigate the grasslands around the lake victoria in my game. So I'm not sure what you mean xD

Tiggurix · Aug 13, 2013

caiman0815 said:
you can farm tiles without fresh water source. fresh water just gives +1 food with civil service

Tundra tiles require access to fresh water to be able to be farmed in the first place, just like hills, and I also distinctly remember them getting the bonus from Civil Service, as I had it already.

Lochlann · Aug 13, 2013

Tiggurix said:
Tundra tiles require access to fresh water to be able to be farmed in the first place, just like hills, and I also distinctly remember them getting the bonus from Civil Service, as I had it already.

Hmm, odd. Post a screenshot? Are you running any mods?

Tiggurix · Aug 13, 2013

Here's a screenshot of the Old Faithful in question. And no, this was vanilla BNW.

Lochlann · Aug 13, 2013

Huh, that's strange. I spot another oddity as well: according to the second portion of the Geyser code (not included in the reply above), Old Faithful is supposed to be adjacent to no more than three tundra spaces. Yet from your screenshot, it appears to be adjacent to four.

<NaturalWonderType>FEATURE_GEYSER</NaturalWonderType>
<AvoidLandAdjacentToOcean>true</AvoidLandAdjacentToOcean>
<AdjacentTilesCareAboutPlotTypes>true</AdjacentTilesCareAboutPlotTypes>
<AdjacentTilesAvoidMountain>true</AdjacentTilesAvoidMountain>
<MaximumAllowedAdjacentMountain>4</MaximumAllowedAdjacentMountain>
<AdjacentTilesRequireHillsPlusMountains>true</AdjacentTilesRequireHillsPlusMountains>
<RequiredNumberOfAdjacentHillsPlusMountains>3</RequiredNumberOfAdjacentHillsPlusMountains>
<AdjacentTilesAvoidDesert>true</AdjacentTilesAvoidDesert>
<MaximumAllowedAdjacentDesert>3</MaximumAllowedAdjacentDesert>
<AdjacentTilesAvoidTundra>true</AdjacentTilesAvoidTundra>
<MaximumAllowedAdjacentTundra>3</MaximumAllowedAdjacentTundra>
<ChangeCoreTileToMountain>true</ChangeCoreTileToMountain>

Also, concerning Lake Victoria, it seems that the core tile is not mountain, but rather flat plains:

<NaturalWonderType>FEATURE_LAKE_VICTORIA</NaturalWonderType>
<AvoidLandAdjacentToOcean>true</AvoidLandAdjacentToOcean>
<ChangeCoreTileToFlatland>true</ChangeCoreTileToFlatland>
<ChangeCoreTileTerrainToPlains>true</ChangeCoreTileTerrainToPlains>

(Still no fresh water, though.)

Gnollguy · Aug 13, 2013

Lochlann said:
Huh, that's strange. I spot another oddity as well: according to the second portion of the Geyser code (not included in the reply above), Old Faithful is supposed to be adjacent to no more than three tundra spaces. Yet from your screenshot, it appears to be adjacent to four.

Also, concerning Lake Victoria, it seems that the core tile is not mountain, but rather flat plains:

(Still no fresh water, though.)

If I recall how map generation works, the code isn't "hard and fast" if the game rolls to place the wonder and there is no tile that matches all the requirements it fits it as closely as it can. I also think it's allowed to place a wonder over a lake and that the other tiles around that tile get flagged as having a fresh water source before it's placed and never changed back. So the coretilechange kicks in so that it becomes a plain/mountain/whatever but the adjacent tiles have already had the attributes set.

Khavikanum · Aug 18, 2013

Gnollguy said:
...the code isn't "hard and fast" ...it fits it as closely as it can.

Seems like that makes it pretty random, whether Old Faithful or Lake Victoria or the like can provide fresh water (or not) to adjacent tiles.

Demon2222 · Aug 19, 2013

Tiggurix said:
Here's a screenshot of the Old Faithful in question. And no, this was vanilla BNW.

There's an itty bitty rivier between the farm and deer. Turn off the grid to see it better. That's probably your fresh water source.

Nicasen · Aug 19, 2013

Tiggurix said:
Here's a screenshot of the Old Faithful in question. And no, this was vanilla BNW.

There's a 1 tile long river between the deer and the farm so that was what was giving you the freshwater bonus.

OmniPotent42 · Aug 19, 2013

Lochlann said:
Huh, that's strange. I spot another oddity as well: according to the second portion of the Geyser code (not included in the reply above), Old Faithful is supposed to be adjacent to no more than three tundra spaces. Yet from your screenshot, it appears to be adjacent to four.

Also, concerning Lake Victoria, it seems that the core tile is not mountain, but rather flat plains:

(Still no fresh water, though.)

All wonders start as mountains, but then get converted to different tiles if needed. That's why you can see them at the same distance as mountains and get observatories, even for wonders like Great Barrier Reef, lake Victoria and king Solomon's mines.

Just adding the code <addsFreshWater>true</addsFreshWater> to the XML and it'll make it act like a normal lake.

cambasonso · Aug 19, 2013

OmniPotent42 said:
Just adding the code <addsFreshWater>true</addsFreshWater> to the XML and it'll make it act like a normal lake.

What is the name of the XML where it's located? I really think it should be like that to begin with, maybe it was an oversight.

Lake Victoria is a... not-mountain?

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