I want to learn

HorseshoeHermit · Jun 26, 2015

"Local happiness" means "Remove up to this amount of unhappiness caused by population in -this- city."

It doesn't work like that in the data, but it is a WAY more compact statement with, afaict, exactly the same outcome.

beetle · Jun 26, 2015

claudiupb said:
Yes, Pagoda and Colosseum give local happiness, which at that time is capped at 1. You will see a drop of 3 happiness to your empire happiness caused by the global 3 unhappiness per city. The good news is that that city can now grow up to size 4 and not influence your happiness.

Not only that, but Global Happiness would increases as this city grows -- until it hits size 5 and ends being a net drain. That is a little crazy!

joncnunn · Jun 27, 2015

Basically, what "local happiness" in Civ V means is that happiness buildings in a given city in excess of its population have no effect.

That wasn't on the Vanilla on CD but came into effect in one of the early balance patches. (People were founding cities, locking them to size 1/2, and building a Colosseum (which at the time provided more happiness) which combined with the luxury (that also provided more happiness then) meant that every new city you founded allowed your capital to be bigger in population.

vanatteveldt · Jun 27, 2015

(as an aside, this makes it really nasty to play India, as their halved population unhappiness reduces global unhappy, while the increased per city unhappiness is global - and since there's a limited supply of global happiness this can be quite annoying)

(as a second aside, it is quite amateuristic that they never updated the zoo text, and that there is no local happiness display in the city screen, afaik you can only see local happiness by clicking through in the city info screen)

Erneiz Hyde · Jun 27, 2015

While it starts off as a penalty, India will ultimately be swimming in Happiness. Past size 6, India will get extra 1 happiness for every 2 population in every city. The capital can get even more ridiculous with Tradition. Add to that, local happiness counts towards the existing pop, not the generated unhappiness. I wouldn't call that annoying.

barril · Jun 30, 2015

Hey guys!

Sorry I took so long to reply, I was away for the weekend and didn't have a chance to play/reply.

Olodune said:
About guilds, I've seen the term Guild City around the forum, what makes a city a particular good city to have your guilds on?

Usually just sufficient food surplus to work the specialists without sacrificing all growth. Having access to a Garden (fresh water) is also nice. Whether to put these in the capital is tricky. I usually put the Writer's Guild elsewhere so the capital can grow faster and get more benefit from the National College.

I see. In my case, Shangai might be the better option, since it can build a Garden. Basically, specialist buildings (more to the point, Guilds) should be built in a city with high population but they can be built in different cities if none is big enough to house them all.

Olodune said:
Do you mind elaborating a bit more on this point please? I always go shrine/granary on my second city

This is a big difference between Prince and Deity. At Prince it is much harder to steal workers so several need to be built, I think. As you increase the difficulty level fewer and fewer workers need to be built (unless you intentionally avoid stealing them). In general, you want to be improving tiles as fast as your cities are growing, and you want to grow quickly.

That ties in to the point of building a Worker ASAP in lower difficulties to be able to improve your Capital tiles. Got it.

Olodune said:
Could you also explain how happiness will impact the next trade route? I suspect that if you're unhappy you'll use an internal trade route to offset the crippled growth in your capital, is that it or is there more to it?

The other way around actually: If getting close to unhappy I'll use an external route for GPT aiming to buy a Mercantile city state. Food surplus is nearly useless (-75% penalty ) when unhappy. If there is plenty of cap space (lots of happiness) then internal food routes are the strongest in the early/mid game.

I thought one could offset the growth penalty by sending a food Caravan. That's out of the question I see.

Erneiz Hyde said:
Most of the time Guild City is your capital especially when going Tradition. But you can split your guilds if none of your cities can handle all the guilds and the science building. River city is preferable for Gardens as well.

Yeah, got it! Thanks

Plumfairy said:
Settling on a hill is always preferable, all other things being equal. The +1 production from the get-go is worth *way* more than whatever the mine would have eventually yielded.

The defensive bonus that city gets is also nice, but it's rarely the prime motivation for setting on hills.

Was this always the case? I seem to remember that in Civ IV the defensive bonus a city got from being on a hill was more important. Or am I misremembering?

Plumfairy said:
I pretty much always build a shrine as soon as I finish researching Pottery, which is usually the first tech I research. Even if I don't plan on truly chasing after a religion, it's nice to get my pantheon going ASAP. (God-King is often a nice pantheon selection if you have no intention of trying to get a full-blown-religion.)

For most starts I build Scout-Scout-Shrine-Granary, and going full Tradition takes care of the Monument. Eventually. I'm still playing around with my build order when I go Liberty, but so far I'm liking Scout-Monument(pause when Pottery researches)-Shrine-Finish Monument-other stuff.

I think the consensus is that Tradition is usually stronger than Liberty, and that's certainly been my experience. Then again, I'm used to Tradition, while Liberty feels kinda alien.

Building (or not building) the monument is something I debate in my games (as I said previously) but in the end I always end up taking it. Plus, the fact that I play on Prince only let's me not build the shrine as early and still get my Pantheon (for the most part). So that might be something I change if (when) I ever start playing in higher difficulties.

So, I've play a bit more. This time until turn 150.
Here's my progress:

Spoiler :

Bimblecrumbs · Jun 30, 2015

A quick tip about lying to civs and then attacking them: don't. It's one of the worst diplo penalties in the game and never goes away (if I remember correctly). Especially vs your first enemy because it's so early on, it's much better to just declare war even if not ready. Or learn to hang back and get a feel for when they'll accuse you - keeping units 2 tiles away from his borders is just fine.

Kriogen · Jul 1, 2015

"Also, a question about Annexing cities. If I have the gold for a Courthouse can I just capture and Annex the city and insta buy a Courthouse to deal with the Unhappiness? Or is it still better to create a puppet first?"

I usualy puppet, wait for resistance to go away and then annex, rush courthouse. If city is in resistance, you can't do anything. Careful with courthouse. It costs 4 gold maintanance. I tipically wait with annexing until things settle down.

Maya: Yup. Expect a sneak attack. You are building warmonger hate, Beijing is squeshy (def 16 only) and I see no chinnese troops around. I do see mayans.

barril · Jul 1, 2015

Bimblecrumbs said:
A quick tip about lying to civs and then attacking them: don't. It's one of the worst diplo penalties in the game and never goes away (if I remember correctly). Especially vs your first enemy because it's so early on, it's much better to just declare war even if not ready. Or learn to hang back and get a feel for when they'll accuse you - keeping units 2 tiles away from his borders is just fine.

Did not know about that. I guess it's something I'll avoid from now on. Thanks.

Kriogen said:
"Also, a question about Annexing cities. If I have the gold for a Courthouse can I just capture and Annex the city and insta buy a Courthouse to deal with the Unhappiness? Or is it still better to create a puppet first?"

I usualy puppet, wait for resistance to go away and then annex, rush courthouse. If city is in resistance, you can't do anything. Careful with courthouse. It costs 4 gold maintanance. I tipically wait with annexing until things settle down.

Maya: Yup. Expect a sneak attack. You are building warmonger hate, Beijing is squeshy (def 16 only) and I see no chinnese troops around. I do see mayans.

Yeah, it was what I did with Washington.

My troops are coming back from the war on America they'll be there in a few turns. But yeah, Pacal needs to go!

CraigMak · Jul 7, 2015

If you want to learn and have some time, add me on steam. I'll run you through a couple FFA's and Teamers. Steam User ID "The Borg". I'm always willing to teach.

Hammer Rabbi · Jul 11, 2015

i havent read this entire thread so i dont know if anyone talked about it, but i love that island with citrus to the south of Shanghai. i'd probably settle a 3rd or 4th city beside the citrus since you'll have it already worked in other cities before that. it has 3 atoll, 3 fish, and the citrus, most of which will be in your first ring and immediately useful. make/buy a lighthouse asap. for an island it has 7 good workable tiles plus maybe more under the fog.

i might try this save just to see how that city could turn out. thanks for posting it.

edit: haha, i cant play it because of a couple scramble packs i never bought. oh well, i still like that island, haha.

barril · Jul 18, 2015

Hey guys! Sorry for being silent for so long.

I just managed my first King victory this afternoon. I actually abandoned the game this thread is about because I ran into a lot of unhappiness problems. Before that, I managed to conquer Pacal and Morroco's capital but then came the happiness issues.

The King game was with Greece and I went for a science victory. Although it was a very late (T392) victory it was still my first on this difficulty (after many tries). I also could've went with a Diplo win since only one CS wasn't my ally.

I played peacefully apart from a DoW I made on Babylon because he had settled a city in a spot I wanted (where I put Argos). I never gave open borders, not sure if that's good or bad. And for the first time happiness was not an issue, I was able to always be quite high on happiness, either be settling in the appropriate places or by trading luxes and allying with CSs.

Also saved a few GS to bulb Techs late in the game and bought a few SS pieces with money because I opened Freedom a chose that tenet.

My biggest issue seems to be early science, I always struggle to get my science going, might be a technology path issue or maybe I'm not building the right stuff at the right time. Nevertheless I'm happy with this game, had a few games previously where everything seemed to be on the right track just to hit a wall and crumble (like my previous attempt where I DoW'ed Shaka with Pocattelo just to be DoW'ed by Napoleon and lose my Capital in a few turns...)

I'll leave you with a screenshot of the final turn and with my thanks for everything discussed here that helped my make some adjustments and get a bit better at the game. Hopefully I'll continue to improve and soon make the jump to Emperor.

Cheers and thanks again!

Spoiler :

I want to learn

HorseshoeHermit

20% accurate as usual, Morty

beetle

Deity

joncnunn

Senior Java Wizard

vanatteveldt

Emperor

Erneiz Hyde

Warlord

barril

Chieftain

Bimblecrumbs

Warlord

Kriogen

Warlord

barril

Chieftain

CraigMak

The Borg

Hammer Rabbi

Deity

barril

Chieftain

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