New Profession Ideas

New Profession Ideas

Wrangler:

This profession can go out and round up Horse, Sheep, and Cattle resources. The amount they get is random and the Experts gain a bonus, such as a Expert Cowheardsman gains a bonus to wrangle cows.

Along with this addition these three resources will become spawn able and will randomly move. Example: You will get a message saying that there has been a new heard of horses spotted in the hills.

Hunting is one of the features of M:C that I really enjoy, so the addition of the spawnable cows/sheep/horses enhances this feature. In fact, the only trade I do with barbarians (in the current economic status quo) is getting me a load of cattle to start raising it myself. Now It would be more realistic, as trying to capture e.g. horses could be in those times preferable to buying them. And here comes the wrangler.

And this feature might be a keystone on WHM spinoff for stages previous to domestication. And why not, spawning static vegetal resources and having a Wrangler-like collector may lead to agriculture.
This feature as I see it, has a great gaming potential.

Kailric said:

New Profession Ideas

Wrangler:

This profession can go out and round up Horse, Sheep, and Cattle resources. The amount they get is random and the Experts gain a bonus, such as a Expert Cowheardsman gains a bonus to wrangle cows.

Along with this addition these three resources will become spawn able and will randomly move. Example: You will get a message saying that there has been a new heard of horses spotted in the hills.

Click to expand...

that's totally unherd of!

It sounds like it could be a nice feature, especially if you could generalize it to allow modding a profession to collect Yield X from Bonus Y like I think you mentioned in WH thread. The AI sounds like it could be hard to get working right; AI Players would have to know to adopt this profession only with that Bonus nearby, then find their way to that Bonus, etc etc.

It could be bad to allow "Double-dipping" of production where you can produce extra from a tile normally in the regular cityscreen profession, yet also nab tons of extra yields from sending out professions onto the tile. So maybe BonusInfos.xml should have its regular tags for tile-worked yield bonus, and separate tags for the type and amount of a yield that the map profession can gather.
<gatherableYields><gatherableYield><gatherableYieldType>YIELD_CATTLE</gatherableYieldType><iAmount>100</iAmount>

If you do allow Yield gathering from Bonuses, I'd agree this should make the Bonus disappear after the amount in <iAmount> gets gathered. Otherwise it becomes possible to gather infinite amounts quite easily by streaming out more and more professions to grab from it (unlike city professions, the map professions cost no food and would be a very cheap/easy way to get stuff). Also the speed at with you gather would go up exponentially the closer the city is to the bonus tile. But if the herd depletes once <iAmount> is gathered that would be fair, and a replacement Bonus could randomly appear somewhere else on the map when one gets used up elsewhere to keep the whole world from either running out or accumulating too much of that Bonus. That would make you stay on the lookout for stray herds and other temporary Bonuses as an occasional special easter-egg that you can't exploit forever, kind of like hunting is but without the combat.

If you also want to allow Bonuses to be able to appear/disappear with some randomness a good way to do this is with the Events XML for bonuses.

orlanth said:

It sounds like it could be a nice feature, especially if you could generalize it to allow modding a profession to collect Yield X from Bonus Y like I think you mentioned in WH thread. The AI sounds like it could be hard to get working right; AI Players would have to know to adopt this profession only with that Bonus nearby, then find their way to that Bonus, etc etc.

Click to expand...

I plan to make it as general as possible.

The AI is easier than you think, once you understand what is happening. You would create a new Unit AI, make checks for when the Player could use this AI. Set a Unit to have it. Then the Unit can easily be programmed to collect said good.

orlanth said:

It could be bad to allow "Double-dipping" of production where you can produce extra from a tile normally in the regular cityscreen profession, yet also nab tons of extra yields from sending out professions onto the tile. So maybe BonusInfos.xml should have its regular tags for tile-worked yield bonus, and separate tags for the type and amount of a yield that the map profession can gather.

Click to expand...

For one, only Resources outside of City range should will be allowed to be collected this way. And we can add tags for a Onetimegather like for Herds, or Perturngather for other uses.

orlanth said:

If you also want to allow Bonuses to be able to appear/disappear with some randomness a good way to do this is with the Events XML for bonuses.

Click to expand...

I will probably set it up similar to how Features can appear and disappear. Maybe have a "bHerd" tag so that if the Heard is gathered it will find a nearby spot to reappear to several turns later to simulate the Herds rebuilding themselves overtime, or migrating. Never within City borders though, as Cities would frighten away animal herds like this.

I heard a herd nearby and decided to herd it home!

This would indeed be of great use for the hunter gatherer phase of WHM!

Lib.Spi't said:

I heard a herd nearby and decided to herd it home!

This would indeed be of great use for the hunter gatherer phase of WHM!

Click to expand...

You heard correctly my friend. Hmm, the wild bonuses such as beaver and deer, and ones we haven't added yet like Buffalo, they could get pushed out by growing Cities and Migrate away. They would be a cool and realistic disadvantage to urbanization.

I am adding a cool way to use the new Sub professions by making "settler" specific Subs. For example, I added Yield requirements like 25 Lumber, 25 Food, and 50 Tools to a Monk(settler) and if you have those yields you can then select the Monk(settler) profession. When you found your monastery you'll have these extra goods to get it started.

Perhaps add a Pioneer subprofession to worker and he can do the same.

I remember Night and us talking about doing such things, but I am not sure if this was before or after subprofessions. Anyway, subprofessions makes it a whole lot easier to do this.

Kailric said:

I remember Night and us talking about doing such things, but I am not sure if this was before or after subprofessions. Anyway, subprofessions makes it a whole lot easier to do this.

Click to expand...

I think this was way earlier than subprofessions. Also subprofessions adds very little new, except they are meant to make it easier for modders. I don't think the DLL can handle subprofessions founding different city types than the parent profession, but adding that ability should be fairly easy.

All in all it seems like a good idea to add a "city founder" profession and subprofessions for each type. We might even consider adding cargo space to such professions to allow them to bring supplies with them. Imagine adding 50 food to the city founder when he is about to build a mining colony in slow covered mountains. That gives 25 turns for automated transports to figure out that it will be a very good idea to supply this city with food.

I was sitting there trying to figure out how to translate "native to #@$%& resources"[*] for the Black Bear and I eventually came to "It's native environment also suggests..." when I suddenly thought to myself: "Bees." Then it struck me, "&#1041;&#1086;&#1088;&#1090;&#1085;&#1080;&#1082;!" (no idea what all the German text says, but the pictures prove it's the right one) to produce Honey in the woods, and then Brewer could make Mead out of that if runs out of barley for beer. Or otherwise Honey could be combined with Grain for Luxury Food if there is no Spice.

[*]

Daw said:

I was sitting there trying to figure out how to translate "native to #@$%& resources"[*] for the Black Bear and I eventually came to "It's native environment also suggests..." when I suddenly thought to myself: "Bees." Then it struck me, "&#1041;&#1086;&#1088;&#1090;&#1085;&#1080;&#1082;!" (no idea what all the German text says, but the pictures prove it's the right one) to produce Honey in the woods, and then Brewer could make Mead out of that if runs out of barley for beer. Or otherwise Honey could be combined with Grain for Luxury Food if there is no Spice.

Click to expand...

For those who can't read the link (that would be most of you ) it is about gathering honey from wild bees in forests in medieval times.

The idea of introducing honey is good. Honey was highly priced because it was the source of the sweet taste before sugar cane plantations. It was also hard and dangerous to get, which didn't bring down the price. Putting it on wounds helps protecting against infections, which was very important before antibiotics (though I'm not sure how widespread this practice was). Honey has also been used to make waterproof seals since ancient times. There is a theory that the ancient egyptians used honey to make their boats waterproof. Just putting wood together will make them leaky and sink within hours.

Daw said:

The trickiest part was that the "#@$%&" thing - like Deer for instance - should be kept a noun in indicative case...

Click to expand...

Feel free to start a new tread about translation issues. Maybe we should figure out how to use the existing grammar system and maybe we need new code to handle more complex dynamic sentences.

Nightinggale said:

soaked in honey and (something else I forgot)

Click to expand...

Tar?

Nightinggale said:

Feel free to start a new tread about translation issues.

Click to expand...

No need so far. This one is solved, and besides I find constructing phrases as entertaining and emotionally rewarding as you (probably) find constructing a program code

Daw said:

Tar?

Click to expand...

No. It was something as least as surprising as honey when I first learned how they did it. It's not something we would think of to use for something like this. It's something as illogical (to outsiders) as the fact that the mortar between the bricks has ox blood in it.

People in days gone by had fewer materials to work with, but they sure knew how to use what they had in ways we wouldn't think of. Try to watch this video starting from around 1:00, it shows how animal fat, olive oil and bee wax (presumably) has brand new features when mixed together correctly and heated up.

What profession would gather honey? Perhaps an Herbalist? Sounds like it was only gathereable and you couldn't produce it like we do now. So it could be setup so that Honey only comes from the bonus Honey, and these resources can be depleted but will reappear at other plots and can replenish itself over time. Thus, we could add this ability to BonusInfos.

Kailric said:

What profession would gather honey? Perhaps an Herbalist? Sounds like it was only gathereable and you couldn't produce it like we do now. So it could be setup so that Honey only comes from the bonus Honey, and these resources can be depleted but will reappear at other plots and can replenish itself over time. Thus, we could add this ability to BonusInfos.

Click to expand...

I have been wondering bonuses, which can randomly move to new plots, like wandering game. A honey bonus, which can randomly appear or disappear sounds interesting too.

How about having a honey gatherer profession, which will make the unit behave like a whaling boat? It will be something like going to the nearest plot with honey, gather it and go back to nearest city to unload. Setting city professions for a fast appearing and disappearing bonus sounds like a lot of micro management. In fact the whole issue with micromanagement should be carefully considered with each new addition.

We could even make temporal bonuses, which renders plots useless for a time, like wandering hornets or something. Last year hornets wreaked havoc in China, killing 42 people and sending 200+ to the hospital. While they are bigger in China, Europe has big and deadly hornets too in woodlands, though luckily quite rare.

Kailric said:

What profession would gather honey? Perhaps an Herbalist?

Click to expand...

No, I think collecting herbs and collecting honey requires different skills and different equipment.

Kailric said:

Sounds like it was only gathereable and you couldn't produce it like we do now.

Click to expand...

My dictionary gives it as "forest bee-keeper" or "wild-hive beekeeper". Both involve some keeping into it, so the resource can be kept as well.

However, having a roaming resource does sound revolutionary and very tempting.

Another way of representing it would be probably not having a special resource at all, just woods features are capable of generating some moderate amount of honey on their own, so that you can't have too much of it.

@Nightinggale
A really interesting movie However it does not explain how honey was used to make things waterproof. It's not like I didn't believe you, but I do find it very surprising because honey well dissolves in the water, doesn't it? The movie does tell things about water-proofing (40:00 on), but that involves lanolin, which of course makes sense.

Daw said:

A really interesting movie However it does not explain how honey was used to make things waterproof.

Click to expand...

I totally agree, which is why I find it extra surprising that it is supposed to work. Right now I can't find any online source for this information though.

Nightinggale said:

I have been wondering bonuses, which can randomly move to new plots, like wandering game. A honey bonus, which can randomly appear or disappear sounds interesting too.

How about having a honey gatherer profession, which will make the unit behave like a whaling boat? It will be something like going to the nearest plot with honey, gather it and go back to nearest city to unload. Setting city professions for a fast appearing and disappearing bonus sounds like a lot of micro management. In fact the whole issue with micromanagement should be carefully considered with each new addition.

We could even make temporal bonuses, which renders plots useless for a time, like wandering hornets or something. Last year hornets wreaked havoc in China, killing 42 people and sending 200+ to the hospital. While they are bigger in China, Europe has big and deadly hornets too in woodlands, though luckily quite rare.

Click to expand...

I am totally for it. I'd like to have the whaling boat feature in M:C and also the wandering bonuses. They could be part of the starting stages of WHM or a feature for other gathering resources even up in the middle ages, such as honey, some herbs or mushrooms.

But I don't quite see the rendering plot useless. There could be for larger areas such as floods, draughts or similar desasters.

With the Monarchy civic, that produces recruits from lux. food, I was wondering if it might be fun to make a change, so you get a recruit and this upgrades to a 'footman' which get some infantry based promotion, then it upgrades to a cavalryman which gets a mounted based promotion, then it upgrades to a commander, which gets some command style promotion, like a +1 movement for stack, or healing or some such.

So depending on your needs or yields, it can be beneficial to stop upgrading this unit, depending on the role that you want him to fill?

Lib.Spi't said:

With the Monarchy civic, that produces recruits from lux. food, I was wondering if it might be fun to make a change, so you get a recruit and this upgrades to a 'footman' which get some infantry based promotion, then it upgrades to a cavalryman which gets a mounted based promotion, then it upgrades to a commander, which gets some command style promotion, like a +1 movement for stack, or healing or some such.

So depending on your needs or yields, it can be beneficial to stop upgrading this unit, depending on the role that you want him to fill?

Click to expand...

Hmm, interesting. This could possibly be a part of the Military Expansion we have planned, and something to consider on that.

I liked our ideas on the Butcher producing Food we talked about, so I'll add that to the next update. I'll have to add a new attribute to Units for this as you don't want Fisherman and Farming producing extra food from workings as a Butcher. If you noticed the Fisherman says he gains a bonus from working water plots. So, I'll need to add several checks to keep Butchers from catching lots of fish and growing extra crops as well.

Anyway, with that change there will be 3 ways to gain food; Land, Water, and Building

Yeah, that will give some really nice choices and options, especially for cities without much food, as you can store up cattle and have it converted when needed.

I really like that idea.