As AIAndy says.
There is a saying in programming circles: 'there is no problem that cannot be solved by adding levels of indirection'. This mechanism is an example of that, which is why I did it that way
Spawn system
- Thread starter AIAndy
- Start date
As AIAndy says.
There is a saying in programming circles: 'there is no problem that cannot be solved by adding levels of indirection'. This mechanism is an example of that, which is why I did it that way
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Except I don't know when turn 11 is.
As AIAndy says.
There is a saying in programming circles: 'there is no problem that cannot be solved by adding levels of indirection'. This mechanism is an example of that, which is why I did it that way
As long as you provide some documentation for the people who are going to use it.
I described it in the original post about the params (which you've linked form the modders info thread).
Regarding 'turn 11' - that will need either a new tag as an alternative to the date tag (not legal to specify both, but either one is ok)
I don't think having some spawn on exactly turn 11 will feel right. I would suggest having the initial animal wave start spawning at the year you have after 5 turns on epic and end it after around 20 turns on epic have passed. That way they will spawn smoothly but still considerably faster than that would happen with the normal spawn rules.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Pity, because that is what default BtS does with barbarians. Nothing spawns anywhere for the first 10 turns to let you and the AI find a nice spot to settle and do a bit of safe exploration.
The real problem is that we stat with a blank map so it takes awhile for animals to build up.
I think the point DH is making is that there needs to be an initial 'filler' spawn shortly after the game starts ( can't be right at the start because you could be immediately wiped out before having a chance t even found your capital). This cannot be date based for two reasons - game speed, and advanced start. Hence it needs to be triggered.
Now, rather than an extra spawn wave we could choose to do this implicitly, by running the spawn rules with an amplified rate (say 10 times on all the probabilities) for 2 or 3 turns. We'd probably want to space it out just a little, but maybe auto run all the active spawns with the amplified rate on turns 10, 20, and 30. The only problem I see with this is that it would populate the neadthals as well as the animals which is probably not desirable, so we'd need an extra tag anyway (bIntitialPopulation=1 say) to say whether to run this implicit spawning for any given rule, but this would be much simpler in the XML than having to define an entire seperate spawn rule to do it.
Good idea, and certainly less effort than a full extra set of spawn rules.
I'll also add some global multipliers to govern it (after the freeze, that is). A rate multiplier, a start turn, an end turn and a multiplier for the density limits (so you can have higher spawn rate with lower density limits if you want).
I'll also add some global multipliers to govern it (after the freeze, that is). A rate multiplier, a start turn, an end turn and a multiplier for the density limits (so you can have higher spawn rate with lower density limits if you want).
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
This is one of the most impressive developments in the game PERIOD! Ultimately, this is what DH and I had discussed on a number of occasions, a biological spawning system like this. You've done very well with it but I do have a couple of issues I'd like to point out.
At current, my experience of the game suggests that we are causing animals to spawn based on the resources that have been placed on the map (whether we see them yet or not is irrelevant.) Now that seems to work fine except that when your map fails to place certain game-critical resources, such as deer, sheep, horses (as our current game has failed to) it leads to the world flat out not having any of those resources - ever. Mind, this is probably more of a problem to be addressed with the mapscripts but could be overcome by some consideration for it here.
Otherwise... very well done. I agree that an initial spawn is good to work on and have nothing to really add to what you're working on now except to say its spot on to what I thought it needed.
At current, my experience of the game suggests that we are causing animals to spawn based on the resources that have been placed on the map (whether we see them yet or not is irrelevant.) Now that seems to work fine except that when your map fails to place certain game-critical resources, such as deer, sheep, horses (as our current game has failed to) it leads to the world flat out not having any of those resources - ever. Mind, this is probably more of a problem to be addressed with the mapscripts but could be overcome by some consideration for it here.
Otherwise... very well done. I agree that an initial spawn is good to work on and have nothing to really add to what you're working on now except to say its spot on to what I thought it needed.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
My insistence on trying the biological approach has been paying of in the trade system for me. The AI has actually started real trades offering things I want, not just extras of things I have.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I agree that it works out ever so nicely like that and is exactly what we're looking for. But when it denies an entire planet of certain resources it creates a problem. There MUST be something built in to the mapscripts to compell at least one of EVERY resource type to exist SOMEwhere. (unless perhaps the player has opted to eliminate some terrain types that some resources only exist on...)
The PW scripts do that. They place at least one of every resource unless in very rare cases when both emergency placement procedures fail.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Its on a PW mapscript that I've had this problem.
They are as close as it gets to perfect but I'd like to see them spawn about 25% more resources in general, and give us an option for a LOT more rivers. I used to use a mapscript that allowed me to make nearly every space touch a river... I don't need it to be that intense but most world cities are on rivers for a reason and given the amount of space each square should represent on a map our average computers can handle (standard), we really need more than we currently have. (btw, is there a thread for the PW mapscript discussions that this should be in?)
They are as close as it gets to perfect but I'd like to see them spawn about 25% more resources in general, and give us an option for a LOT more rivers. I used to use a mapscript that allowed me to make nearly every space touch a river... I don't need it to be that intense but most world cities are on rivers for a reason and given the amount of space each square should represent on a map our average computers can handle (standard), we really need more than we currently have. (btw, is there a thread for the PW mapscript discussions that this should be in?)
I'd second this for rivers. In particular this script doesn't seem to result in long rivers. (as an FYI, far in my game there are no sheep, cows, or piges anywhere I know about - and that's 1500 turns in)
Feel free to make a new thread about the PW map scripts. Currently there is none.
The Perfect Mongoose map script recently got me a lot of rivers on a map.
Anyway, you can govern the amount of rivers by changing the river threshold values they all have in their map constants (near the top of the script, search for river). If you play around with the values to find good ones, tell me afterwards and I make them the default.
Bonus placement is difficult. With logging activated the amount the PW map scripts try to place and the amount they achieve to place are written into PythonDbg.log.
With some they simply do not achieve to place them because of the rules for the bonus defined in the XMLs. Especially the unique in class range prevents proper placement for some (common is Obsidian unless placement in mountains is allowed but then you do not get to use it until after it is useful).
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'll revisit this soon then. I have never played with mapscripts from the coding sense at all but isn't it possible to add more options on these kinds of things? I always look for the most options I can get, and that was one of the attractive things about Mongoose and PW scripts over the others.
From what you are saying, it appears that the guidlines for placement are perhaps too restrictive for some resources? I mean... to play correctly, the mod requires a few of every animal type really... thats the most important because at least with minerals they can pop up in undefined spaces with mines.
From what you are saying, it appears that the guidlines for placement are perhaps too restrictive for some resources? I mean... to play correctly, the mod requires a few of every animal type really... thats the most important because at least with minerals they can pop up in undefined spaces with mines.
Hmm, an option to select between lots of rivers and less? Could do that.
Yes, the new terrains changed quite some of that and I am not sure if everything with bonuses has been adapted to that yet.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Sounds like we've discovered the culprit... terrain requirements for resource spawning needs a complete audit then. Love the new terrains and some bugs that result from them is completely understandable. There's always going to be little issues like that when something new is introduced, unexpected problems. lol Just glad to bring it up to get to a point of figuring out what may be the problem.
And yes, river frequency would be an awesome option to develop into the mapscripts!
And yes, river frequency would be an awesome option to develop into the mapscripts!
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Sounds like we may need a new map called "Perfect Caveman" to add all these changes.
But I do agree that we need more rivers generated.
But I do agree that we need more rivers generated.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I've also always appreciated being able to toggle overall resource frequencies. Sometimes I just like playing with resource rich maps while other times I go for a more challenging resource poor game.
EldrinFal
King
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2011
- Messages
- 926
I've seen map scripts with all those sorts of things. I believe it was SmartMap. That one had like almost every aspect configurable. Maybe you can loot it to add to other more popular map scripts?
I don't care for massive oceans (pita for wars) so I always use PlanetGenerator that lets me lower ocean %.
I don't care for massive oceans (pita for wars) so I always use PlanetGenerator that lets me lower ocean %.
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