Advice from some of the “expert” Deity players on here?

Thanks in advance for anybody who takes the time to read this! Sorry for the length, but I'm trying to be detailed.

I’m deep into what will hopefully be my second ever Deity victory (arguably third, but I don’t count a game where I messed around as Attila on a Duel Pangaea map until my warrior upgraded to a battering ram and captured Delhi without ever even settling a city . This game is a Huge Earth map, 12 civs (although Ethiopia was recently eliminated), Epic speed, and I am playing as Sweden.

Here’s the crux of my dilemma: I am sitting on 3 great scientists, a general, and an engineer. I want to save those great persons for city-state gifts right before a World Leader vote, but I’m not sure if I can afford to NOT burn them.

At just 16, I am nowhere near my necessary 46 votes for a Diplo Victory. Gustavus can make up those votes pretty quickly though, especially now that I’ve adopted Treaty Organization, the level 3 Freedom tenet for city-state influence from trade routes.

The bigger concern is Korea. I’ve far surpassed everyone else in tech, but Sejong has had a steady 5-tech lead on me basically since 4000 BC. And now he’s on the warpath, almost completely destroying the Songhai, conquering one of my longest running city-state allies, and steadily approaching my border. He’s finished the Apollo Program, the Manhattan Project, and most of the post-Medieval wonders. (I managed to nab the Sistine Chapel, Porcelain Tower, Eiffel, Neuschwanstein, Statue of Liberty, and I’m 2 turns from Hubble.)

Also, his army is huge, while mine is almost nonexistent: 3 infantry, 2 Hakkapelittas, 2 artilleries, 2 battleships, 1 ironclad, and 1 sub. I’ve won plenty of wars at Immortal with the much smaller army… you all know the inadequacies of AI tactics. I’m waiting to get back the aluminum I sold so that I can spam rocket artilleries. I don’t know if bombers will work… he has lots of mobile SAMs, so I’d need just as many fighters in order to make those bombers useful.

Anyway, he declared war on me maybe 50 turns ago, but the Himalayas have prevented any actual conflict between us. I’ve realized that I’m probably going to have to go on offense in order to slow down his science victory though.
1. Can I do so from a 5-tech deficit, or do I need to burn my scientists? So much of my science came from RAs (I had like 9 friendships at one point), but as the lone Freedom civ among 10 Order civs, I’ve lost about half of those friendships (and the subsequent great person bonuses for Sweden). I don’t think I’ll catch up to Sejong’s tech without burning my scientists. But will rocket artilleries, mobile SAMs, infantry, and bombers be enough? Should I detour through the military techs (for Armor / Stealth / A-bombs) instead of beelining Globalization?
2. Should I burn my engineer for the Sydney Opera House? I don’t even have Philanthropy yet because my culture output is terrible and there are so few cultural city-states; I’m going for a Diplo Victory with only 1 policy in Patronage so far.
3. Should I be saving my artists/writers/musicians as CS gifts? This is a dilemma because as the only Freedom civ, I need the tourism to deal with the ideological pressure. The Eiffel Tower is the only reason I’ve managed to stay at dissidents.
4. If I do burn all these great persons, will the generals/admirals I gain from warfare be enough for CS gifts? I’ve only gained 1 general all game, so there’s more to be gained quickly.

Lastly, I should add that even if a science victory might be in reach, it is not my preference, as my first Deity victory was by science (as China) and I’m aiming for a new accomplishment.

I appreciate any advice or suggestions! Screenshots in the spoiler.

My quick advices (may add more later):

You should concentrate on ally CSs (btw: seems you only have 5 - what were you doing all game?).

a) make peace with Korea (I presume he hadn't build any SS parts?)

b) build SOH with GE and take +25% gold for CS

c) I see you are still friend with many AIS - its good, all you need to win this game is to make your gold output big (do you have banks and SE in all cities?) and borrow money from AI

d)Bulb globalisation and use your spies to gain votes (also try to coup few easy CSs)

Do you have policy which give CSs influence with soldiers gifts? (You really should have )

If you post save (and don't have scrambled map packs) I may try to win this game.

Cheers!

Thanks Ironfighter! I only posted asking for advice because, being an epic game, I put a lot of time into it and want to win it without having to reload. I'm not the best Deity player, and I still have a lot to learn about some of the tactics necessary to win at that level.

I haven't been able to invest in city-states because my economy was weak, and I didn't even have Philanthropy. I was focused all game on keeping up in tech with Korea and getting enough culture/tourism to stay afloat amidst all the Order civs. (I didn't want to convert since Order has nothing for diplo victory.)

a) Korea won't accept peace unless I hand over 3 or 4 cities. Do you disagree that going on offense is the only way to prevent his science victory? He doesn't have any spaceship parts yet.

b) Thanks, I was leaning towards the using the engineer for Sydney also.

c) I am friends with about 5 AIs, but only Egypt and Mongolia are hoarding money (about 2k each). I don't have banks/stock exchanges in all my cities yet, I think only Stockholm, because it generates the most gold. I didn't feel the stock exchanges were worth 750 hammers just to get +33% on only 12 gold in Helsinki, for example. Maybe that was a mistake, though.

d) So you think I should bulb my scientists for Globalization instead of for military techs or saving them for gifts. You think it's feasible to win on the first World Leader vote in 34 turns, then?

Yes, I took Arsenal of Democracy. But honestly, it was mostly so I could build up my forces for a war vs. Korea. It seems like you disagree with this strategy, but he won't accept peace anyway. Do you suggest a defensive war instead of going on offense? That could still get me some generals/admirals to donate to CSs. He's very close to my border (can see it on the minimap), and a huge mountain range is the only reason we haven't already exchanged pleasantries.

I'll get around to posting the save for you when I'm back on my Civ V computer. Thanks for your time!

fyar said:

You think it's feasible to win on the first World Leader vote in 34 turns, then?

Click to expand...

Yes, you should do it otherwise there is risk that Korea launch before.

There is long standing bug where if AI is willing to accept peace at all it always accept white peace (just remove other things). It's clearly exploit, but really game is 4,5 years old and I don't suspect we will get another patch, so better call it unspoken feature than exploit
Personally I don't use it as I try to predict DoW and use bribes but it can be really useful in your case.

Borrowing money from AIs is very powerful tool, the more you borrow the more gold they have, usually it's enough to be friend with 2-3 AI to eg. have gold for all SS parts in 200-220T.

Entrench your positions, go for diplomatic victory and pray to whichever god you have that he doesn't nuke you. You do have friends though, try to get them to denounec him and borrow money so you can bribe them to declare on him.

The more nations declare war on him, the easier he will accept peace.

Thanks for the suggestions! I try to avoid using exploits though -- I even consider reloading a previous save where I already know the future to be an exploit... for myself at least, I don't judge other people who do it. Maybe I'll fight a defensive war for the generals/admirals and/or try to beeline for Seoul, until I see a nuke within range of my main cities. If that happens, or if heaven forbid I actually do get nuked, I'll use your "unspoken feature".

I'll probably use Arsenal of Democracy to donate to the CS all my old, unupgraded composite bows.

Myth and Legend, well that's a tough one, because I'm Catholic in real life but having spawned next to India, my country is mostly Hindu in the game. So is your suggestion to pray to Jesus or to Shiva??? Some of my friends have denounced Sejong, some are still friends with him, some denounced me because they liked him more. But none will accept any bribes to DOW him.

Here's the save, if you want to try it yourself, IronFighter. I had to zip it to get it (just) under 2 MB because it's a Huge map.

fyar said:

Here's the save, if you want to try it yourself, IronFighter. I had to zip it to get it (just) under 2 MB because it's a Huge map.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I haven't noticed before it's huge map.

On huge maps the transition between late turns last on my computer ~ 10m not mention high probability of crash - can't play but good luck for you

So OP, have you continued this game trying all the good advice you have gotten?

fyar said:

Maybe I'll fight a defensive war for the generals/admirals and/or try to beeline for Seoul, until I see a nuke within range of my main cities.

Click to expand...

GG, GMu, and 3/4th used GPr are the favorite for Sweden's CS gifting. The nice thing is that Sweden does not need to be taking cities, just fighting to keep the GG rolling in.

The other GP are better used conventionally, even for Sweden.

No problem IronFighter, I planned on trying it myself independent of whether or not you tried it.

@beetle, honestly, right after I posted, I've been dealing with a lot of stress at work, so I haven't had the chance to go back to the game. But I'll give it a shot this weekend and update with how it went! I assume you meant to include GAd as well... they can be gifted too, right? I might just keep bombarding some city with my battleships just for the admirals.