Culture and tourism seem pointless when it comes to ideologies.

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CivAddict2013

Warlord
Joined
May 4, 2013
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Semi-rant here. Like the title says; Culture and Tourism seem pointless when it comes to ideologies.

Here's a screenshot of what I'm talking about:


Culture and tourism are pointless when it comes to ideologies. In this game I have more culture and more tourism than any other civilization. Yet I have dissidents?

It's pointless. Just buy up all the city states and pick the world ideology. There's no point to culture and tourism with ideologies.
 
Did you start on your tourism late? The rise and fall of your culture/tourism is affected by the history. Also note that other Civs except you and Greece all have Order


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
There are seven civs who are working together and pressure your freedom ideology. 7! Why are there so many civs alive at that point?
 
The actual influence screen would help more -- what matters is the relative thresholds of total culture and total tourism.
 
amphreded said:
Did you start on your tourism late? The rise and fall of your culture/tourism is affected by the history. Also note that other Civs except you and Greece all have Order


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I don't know. But isn't ideological influence supposed to be based on culture and tourism? It makes no sense.

And no I didn't start working on tourism or culture late. In fact, I've been the cultural lead since around the 1850's. My happiness was fine until the AI decides to pull that "World Ideology" stuff.

It seems like as soon as the AI says "World Ideology"; it renders your culture and tourism useless.

None of these other AI's have anywhere near as much culture or anywhere near as much tourism.

Something seems wrong here.
 
World Ideology explains it. However if you had less tourism and culture your happiness would be even worse
 
World Ideology is one of those things you have to race for and win to keep you from getting negative effects. I try to get Radio researched at a time where I can put up World Ideology for a vote and few, if any, other Civs even have an Ideology. That will keep Civs from voting against it and when it is passed, it will help Civs to choose my Ideology which is usually Freedom. AI Civs prefer to take Order and your game shows it. If you don't pick order and let another Civ make it the World Ideology, it is going to make things difficult for you.
 
CivAddict2013 said:
...There's no point to culture and tourism with ideologies.
Click to expand...
Culture is the primary defense against ideological pressure, tourism is the secondary defense. Even if it were the other way around you would still be in trouble as all other civs are generating tourism. Unless you are prepared to switch ideologies it is imperative you win the World's Fair and do it early, this will make you almost immune to ideological pressure if you have Great Writers to burn during the effects. When Order got passed you will always have dissents and there is nothing that can be done.
What would concern me is the the unhappiness you are now at from the lowest level if influence, I suggest you start selling your chuff cities. Hit -20 and cities have a chance to flip to your neighbor.
 
phillipwyllie said:
Culture is the primary defense against ideological pressure, tourism is the secondary defense. Even if it were the other way around you would still be in trouble as all other civs are generating tourism. Unless you are prepared to switch ideologies it is imperative you win the World's Fair and do it early, this will make you almost immune to ideological pressure if you have Great Writers to burn during the effects. When Order got passed you will always have dissents and there is nothing that can be done.
What would concern me is the the unhappiness you are now at from the lowest level if influence, I suggest you start selling your chuff cities. Hit -20 and cities have a chance to flip to your neighbor.
Click to expand...

Either that or you could change revolution to order like everyone else is doing. You will lose ideologies from the old ideology and you will also get less unhapiness from conversion. Once you start recovering your social policies, you wont feel the change. Make sure you change sooner though because you will waste your social policies on autocracy.
 
The World Ideology is equivalent to I believe two levels of influence, so it's pretty significant. And unlike tourism from opponent civs, it's not something you can avoid by culturing up. You just have to try your hardest to not let it pass / repeal it if it does.
 
In the game I am playing I actually voted an AI player to rule because he was Autocracy and we passed World Ideology as Autocracy and STILL I had to switch to Freedom because Siam was over 400 tourism. I thought I was doing OK with over 80 and getting World Ideology.
 
CivAddict2013 said:
It makes no sense... My happiness was fine until the AI decides to pull that "World Ideology" stuff. It seems like as soon as the AI says "World Ideology"; it renders your culture and tourism useless. None of these other AI's have anywhere near as much culture or anywhere near as much tourism. Something seems wrong here.
Click to expand...

Nah, game is working as designed. You can try and ride it out (at -19) or just go ahead and switch to Order, giving up two policies that you got for free anyway. Losing the World Ideology vote has a very significant impact, and well it should. Some things are frustrating, but make the game more interesting on the whole, and this is one of them.

wayneb64 said:
...we passed World Ideology as Autocracy and STILL I had to switch to Freedom because Siam was over 400 tourism.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I suspect you threw in the towel too fast. World Ideology can take several turns to work its magic, but I have never had to switch away once it is passed. But one game after WI vote I did still have to sell some puppet cities. In my case, it was to your Siam-like tourism run-away. They paid market price for the cities, tried to raze them, and then ended up switching to my ideology. It was sweet!
 
beetle said:
Sorry, but I suspect you threw in the towel too fast. World Ideology can take several turns to work its magic, but I have never had to switch away once it is passed. But one game after WI vote I did still have to sell some puppet cities. In my case, it was to your Siam-like tourism run-away. They paid market price for the cities, tried to raze them, and then ended up switching to my ideology. It was sweet!
Click to expand...

It was the other way around. Me and my buddy had world ideology well before the happiness penalty started showing up. It took me a while to notice my happiness was going down and then why, but I was expecting to start losing cities as the modifier was at -43 or something.
 
129 tourism is a pretty low amount of tourism. You need to have a lot more before it really impacts ideologies.

Screenshot from a recent French cultural victory of mine, taken right before the win (1155 of the total 1198 tourism was from Paris alone :D).

No world ideology. High enough levels of tourism do directly impact ideology. Get it high enough and it won't even matter if world ideology is passed.
 
thecrazyscot said:
129 tourism is a pretty low amount of tourism. You need to have a lot more before it really impacts ideologies.

Screenshot from a recent French cultural victory of mine, taken right before the win (1155 of the total 1198 tourism was from Paris alone :D).

No world ideology. High enough levels of tourism do directly impact ideology. Get it high enough and it won't even matter if world ideology is passed.
Click to expand...

That's pretty good. Good job. :goodjob:
 
thecrazyscot said:
129 tourism is a pretty low amount of tourism. You need to have a lot more before it really impacts ideologies.

Screenshot from a recent French cultural victory of mine, taken right before the win (1155 of the total 1198 tourism was from Paris alone :D).

No world ideology. High enough levels of tourism do directly impact ideology. Get it high enough and it won't even matter if world ideology is passed.
Click to expand...

That's what happened to me. Even though I had world Ideology my 85 tourism was eclipsed by Siam's 400+ tourism.

I have yet to figure out how to compete on tourism with the AI in Immortal games.
 
wayneb64 said:
That's what happened to me. Even though I had world Ideology my 85 tourism was eclipsed by Siam's 400+ tourism.

I have yet to figure out how to compete on tourism with the AI in Immortal games.
Click to expand...

Usually when an AI has 400+ tourism, it's because they were wonder whoring hard (high culture) and then built something like a Hotel / the other "Culture -> Tourism" buildings.

The answer is to take over their city. Then you get all of the sweet sweet culture and tourism, and it's no longer an issue !
 
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