Skyre_Solon
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2013
- Messages
- 15
I have been playing on Warlord for a while and want to upgrade to Prince level. But every time I try I always DoWed way to fast for me to keep up.
Any tips?
Any tips?
Trying out Prince
- Thread starter Skyre_Solon
- Start date
Ninakoru
A deity on Emperor
Prince is the first difficulty level in witch you play with standard settings.
If you are dowed too much is because:
- You have a little army compared to them.
- You expand too fast
- You are a wonderwhore.
Quick fix:
Aim to get 2 warriors and 4 archers fairly fast. You will have to sacrifice other things to so do. A good no-brainer way to do so: building-unit-building-unit (outside of opeing that is usually scouts/monument)
If you are dowed too much is because:
- You have a little army compared to them.
- You expand too fast
- You are a wonderwhore.
Quick fix:
Aim to get 2 warriors and 4 archers fairly fast. You will have to sacrifice other things to so do. A good no-brainer way to do so: building-unit-building-unit (outside of opeing that is usually scouts/monument)
I have been playing on Warlord for a while and want to upgrade to Prince level. But every time I try I always DoWed way to fast for me to keep up.
Scout first is the way to go. Then find out what's near you. If you discover you're sandwiched between aggressive opponents (even one may be enough), consider re-rolling until you find a nicer map. Once you're more comfortable with the pace on Prince, you can play out the harder starts
dojoboy
Tsalagi
The AI is not going to fight well in the early game. A couple archers and warrior can do enough damage to keep the AI from pressing one of your cities. If you get DOW'ed, parry with the enemy civ, but don't ignore infrastructure. By no means do you need to switch to a wartime economy.
I'll let war weariness bring the AI to the negotiation table, which I deny. By then, I've 3-4 archers with 1-2 warriors or spearmen. So, I press and take a city or two from them. All dependent on how the world unfolds.
I'll let war weariness bring the AI to the negotiation table, which I deny. By then, I've 3-4 archers with 1-2 warriors or spearmen. So, I press and take a city or two from them. All dependent on how the world unfolds.
smileyy90210
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2010
- Messages
- 94
2 units per city keeps things pretty peaceful on Prince...maybe too peaceful.
NoPartials
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2013
- Messages
- 33
I had trouble for a while too. What helped me is learning how to make the most of buying units. If you have enough happiness (luxury resources add 4 happiness), sell off your luxury resources for 240 gold (or a lower amount +some gold per turn) and buy archers to defend your cities. Also, you can sell an embassy for 25 gold.
On prince, two archers and a warrior (or the upgraded versions of those) is enough to defend a city. Good luck!
On prince, two archers and a warrior (or the upgraded versions of those) is enough to defend a city. Good luck!
The easiest strategy by far is the 4 city tradition opening, a very detailed and thorough explanation of which can be found in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=468487. Read the strategy, understand it than pick a civilization that suits it(as in a civilization going tall rather than wide) and enjoy.
LoneRebel
Emperor
There's something I need to mention here. While the game says that Prince is the standard difficulty, they're not being entirely truthful because "standard difficulty" implies that neither side has any advantages or handicaps. IIRC, the AI always plays on Chieftain, regardless of what difficulty level the player chooses, is that correct?
In that case, does that mean the Chieftain is actually the standard difficulty? I think not, because if I remember correctly, Chieftain difficulty also handicaps the AI further, from the player's perspective, which may counteract the bonuses the AI gets from playing on Chieftain themselves. (It's a little hard to put into words).
So does that mean that a difficulty between Chieftain and Prince (i.e. Warlord) is the standard difficulty? Or is there actually no difficulty level where both humans and the AI have no advantages or handicaps (or at least have the same advantages and handicaps?)
PS: Here's the table showing the bonuses and penalties humans and AIs get on different difficulty levels.
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ5/difficulties
In that case, does that mean the Chieftain is actually the standard difficulty? I think not, because if I remember correctly, Chieftain difficulty also handicaps the AI further, from the player's perspective, which may counteract the bonuses the AI gets from playing on Chieftain themselves. (It's a little hard to put into words).
So does that mean that a difficulty between Chieftain and Prince (i.e. Warlord) is the standard difficulty? Or is there actually no difficulty level where both humans and the AI have no advantages or handicaps (or at least have the same advantages and handicaps?)
PS: Here's the table showing the bonuses and penalties humans and AIs get on different difficulty levels.
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ5/difficulties
That one seems to be suitable for both tradition-science & tradition-domination and is very good for what it does cover.
(If your seeking cultural victory, a thread devoted to that is better.)
It appears to not cover religion though, and choosing beliefs is also quite important to getting the most out of your civ when playing tall (in particular a pantheon that works well with your starting terrain). There is a war academy article on pantheons though. (And several other war academy articles on religion.)
Yes; AI plays on Chieftain level. Can be moded in Global Defines.xml.
By standard; it really means that most settings are at 100% (for the human) when he plays at Prince. (If the human is playing on Chieftain; he would gets handicap bonuses compared to standard which just so happen to match the AIs for happiness.) There would be several settings at which the human would have an advantage (growth); while the AI would still get a minor combat vs barbarian advantage & massive Unit Supply bonus compared to the human. These can be moded in CivVHandicapInfos.xml.
LoneRebel
Emperor
So, without modding, is there any difficulty level where both the human and the AI play on the exact same settings? It seems not, from what you just said.
tomtom5858
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
- Messages
- 320
No. However, changing the AI handicap from CHIEFTAIN to PRINCE in GlobalAIDefines.xml will make the AI play on Prince. This is likely not a good idea; I tried it on Deity, and I handily won a science victory on T265. That's bad for two reasons. 1. The AI should be blasting off T200-250 on Deity. 2. I seriously suck at this game, and struggle with Immortal with the AI on Chieftain. I'd recommend leaving it as is, because it makes the game more challenging, and thus, !FUN!.
LoneRebel
Emperor
I should try making the AI play on Prince and then play on Prince myself. As you said, the AI will probably get stomped as easily as when I play on Chieftain and they play on Chieftain; however, I just want to have an actual equal game for once and see how it goes. (Looking at the difficulties table, having both the player and the AI play on Prince will still not be entirely equal. The AI will still have a slight advantage. Close enough, anyway.
)Making an AI that cannot perform well at the game's standard difficulty and has to play on a lower difficulty seems a bit funny when you think about it. They should have made the AI competitive when it plays on Prince, at least.
tomtom5858
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
- Messages
- 320
I should try making the AI play on Prince and then play on Prince myself. As you said, the AI will probably get stomped as easily as when I play on Chieftain and they play on Chieftain; however, I just want to have an actual equal game for once and see how it goes. (Looking at the difficulties table, having both the player and the AI play on Prince will still not be entirely equal. The AI will still have a slight advantage. Close enough, anyway.
Making an AI that cannot perform well at the game's standard difficulty and has to play on a lower difficulty seems a bit funny when you think about it. They should have made the AI competitive when it plays on Prince, at least.
Do you have any idea how hard it is to program a good AI? For humans, expressing generalities is really easy, but for an AI....it's really bloody hard. Try expressing every emotion with three verbs and three descriptors. There. That's the difficulty of making a good AI. You have to give the AI something that the human doesn't, to make it fair. We have the best general computing device on the planet, and they don't have to worry about happiness or culture. It's the difference between making a challenging AI and a fun AI. CiV chose to make it challenging.
I generally play on King, but when trying something new, often drop down one to test it out.
The 4 city tradition start, worked with a 1 city NC strategy will always work at this level. Just make sure you research archery early, and buy one or two archers. Your slower start will pay off, and you should have 4 cities, all with libraries and NC in your capital by T100.
Edit: To add to this, my "Wonder List" normally comprises: Oracle, Hagia Sophia, Sistine Chapel, Louvre, Leaning/Porcelain Tower. If I get a good coastal start (I often play as England) I may try for the Great Lighthouse, I may go for Petra if the situation is right.
At this level you can still afford to build wonders and play the game. The moment you move up again, to King, Wonders start to become less viable.
The 4 city tradition start, worked with a 1 city NC strategy will always work at this level. Just make sure you research archery early, and buy one or two archers. Your slower start will pay off, and you should have 4 cities, all with libraries and NC in your capital by T100.
Edit: To add to this, my "Wonder List" normally comprises: Oracle, Hagia Sophia, Sistine Chapel, Louvre, Leaning/Porcelain Tower. If I get a good coastal start (I often play as England) I may try for the Great Lighthouse, I may go for Petra if the situation is right.
At this level you can still afford to build wonders and play the game. The moment you move up again, to King, Wonders start to become less viable.
The early wonders you can skip (although i always go for oracle, sometimes with the great engineer from liberty), but once midgame you normally build up a tech lead, and with a few tall cities, you can still get them. (i always play tall empire, for cultural vic)
But yes, you will need a few more units, mainly just as deterrent. Listen to what your ilitary advisor says about the strength of other civs.
Offcours, being next to the mongols of the huns is always horsehockye...Although i have to say that Prince nearly isnt as difficult as when the game came out
But yes, you will need a few more units, mainly just as deterrent. Listen to what your ilitary advisor says about the strength of other civs.
Offcours, being next to the mongols of the huns is always horsehockye...Although i have to say that Prince nearly isnt as difficult as when the game came out
LoneRebel
Emperor
I know that, obviously. I'm just saying that, as someone else pointed out, it's a little dismaying to play Prince, expecting you and the AI to be on equal footing, and then finding out that Rome has built 20 cities and yet still has +40 happiness.
Or, I'll just quote TV Tropes here because they said it best. Civilization is listed under the "The Computer is a Lying Bastard" trope: "Most games will say 'Normal' gives humans and AI equal advantages. Not even close."
And of course, Civ even has the honor of getting its own subfolder for the trope "The Computer is a Cheating Bastard."
NOTE: Given the substantial likelihood that someone will misunderstand this post, I'm declaring now that this is not meant to be a criticism. It is entirely affectionate.
I'm still trying to find the good balance point for my personal Prince is even handicap while AI gets some benefits at higher levels.
In standard game; Emperor bored me to tears; Immortal is entirely map depedent (with a good start I win; with a bad one I lose); either way I'd know by turn 150 so there was no point in completing the game.
Promoting the AI to completely even happiness makes Immortal boring (just not quite as much as standard Emperor) but Deity is still too hard. (Runaway AI pop growth from Deity level growth bonus => runaway science late)
Evening growth out to 100% as well appears to make Diety overall challenging (AI still starts with an extra settler and techs along with its massive production bonus); but it looks like I'm going to need to go to every AI's file and increase happiness flavor by one & decrease expansion by one based on how bad Catherine performs.
animalcross
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2013
- Messages
- 38
I always find that Stonehenge is good to build. It gives you lots of faith, which can potentially get you to a religion first. I do play fairly religiously but if you do get it first, you get first cracks at converting cities, and if you build up enough pressure, new religions that get founded can be crushed and limited from expanding.
